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Hey everybody!

My name is Wes and I'm

new to the forum.

I'm married, in my late 30s, and am part of a church in Collinsville, IL right outside the city of St Louis.

Glad to be here - look forward to discussion!

In order to possess such death we must not give too large a place to discovering how or to noticing our experience; we should instead believe God’s Word. “God says my flesh has been crucified so I believe it is crucified. I acknowledge that what God says is true.” By responding in this fashion we shall soon encounter the reality of it. If we look at God’s fact first our experience will follow next....

The Cross and the Holy Spirit
The Spiritual Man, CFP, Vol. 1, Part 2 THE FLESH, Ch. 3, by Watchman Nee

MANY, IF NOT MOST, believers were not filled with the Holy Spirit at the moment they believed the Lord. What is even worse, after many years of believing they continue to be entangled by sin and remain carnal Christians. In these pages which follow, what we intend to explain regarding how a Christian may be set free from his flesh is based upon the experience of the believers at Corinth as well as that of many like believers everywhere. We moreover do not wish to imply that a Christian must first believe in the substitutionary work of the cross before he can believe in its identifying work. Is it not true, however, that many do not have a distinct revelation concerning the cross at the beginning? What they have received is but half the whole truth; and so they are compelled to receive the other half at a subsequent period. Now if the reader already has accepted the complete work of the cross, what is given here will concern him little. But if like the majority of believers he too has believed only half the whole then the remainder is indispensable for him. Yet we do want our readers to know that the two sides of the work of the cross need not be accepted separately; a second believing only becomes necessary because of incompleteness at the first.

The Deliverance of the Cross

Upon reciting many deeds of the flesh in his Galatian letter, the Apostle Paul then points out that “those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires” (Gal. 5.24). Here is deliverance. Is it not strange that what concerns the believer vastly differs from what concerns God? The former is concerned with “the works of the flesh” (Gal. 5.19), that is, with the varying sins of the flesh. He is occupied with today’s anger, tomorrow’s jealousy, or the day after tomorrow’s strife. The believer mourns over a particular sin and longs for victory over it. Yet all these sins are but ...

We Are His Instrumentality

In diagnosing a case, a medical doctor has recourse to many medical instruments. This is not so with us. We have no thermometer nor x-ray, nor any other such device to help us discern man’s spiritual condition. How, then, do we discern whether a brother is spiritually ill or determine the nature of his trouble? It is wonderful that God has designed us to be as “thermometers” for measuring. By His working in our lives, He would equip us to discern what “ails” a person. As the Lord’s spiritual “doctors” we must have a thorough inward preparation. We must be deeply conscious of the weight of our responsibility.

Suppose the thermometer had never been invented. The doctor would have to determine whether his patient had a fever by the mere touch of his hand. His hand would serve as the thermometer. How sensitive and accurate his hand would need to be! In spiritual work, this is exactly the case.

We are the thermometers, the instrumentalities. We must undergo thorough training and strict discipline, for whatever is untouched in us will be left untouched in others. Moreover, we cannot help others to learn lessons which we ourselves have not learned before God. The more thorough our training, the greater will be our usefulness in God’s work. Likewise, the more we spare ourselves—our pride, our narrowness, our happiness—the less our usefulness. If we have covered these things in ourselves, we cannot uncover them in others. A proud person cannot deal with another with the same condition; a hypocrite cannot touch the hypocrisy in another; nor can one who is loose in his life have a helpful effect on one who suffers the same difficulty. How well we know that if such is still in our nature we will not be able to condemn such particular sin in others; we in fact can hardly recognize it in others. A doctor may cure others without curing himself, but this can hardly be true in the spiritual realm. The worker is himself first a patient; he must be healed before he can heal others. What he has not seen he cannot show others. Where he has not trodden he cannot lead others. What he has not learned he cannot teach others.

We must see that we are the instruments prepared by God for knowing man. Hence we must be dependable, qualified to give an accurate diagnosis. So that my feelings may be reliable, I need to pray, “O Lord, do not let me go untouched, unbroken and unprepared.” ...

Mormons Claim Most People are Saved and
Most People Will Do Temple Works to be Saved

Enduring to the end does not mean if you don't endure to the end you won't be saved. Rather, it means you will lose the reward of returning with Christ to reign during the millennial kingdom on earth in Revelation 20. It is the time of recompense. After the millennial kingdom rewards are done away with. You can't work your way to higher or lower heavens as Mormons teach. That would not be grace. Grace is not after all you can do, but in spite of all you try to do.

Also, the Mormon said if there are no works you go to Hell. Whereas Christians and the Bible teach if you are save and do no works you still go to Heaven. No Christian goes to Hell. All Christians go to Heaven. All Mormons go to Hell.

A person who is has never heard of Christ if he accepted the God of the mountains and stars surely he would accept Christ and be saved. This is common grace leading to special grace of the gospel. Muslims and Mormons and Roman Catholics and Buddhists and Atheists already reject Jesus, because they already accept their false gods and beliefs. Common grace has already come upon them that they reject. Someone on a remote island who accepts the God of the mountains and stars surely would be saved because He would accept Christ. If you accept the Father surely you would accept the Son. No other name under heaven by which one can be saved.

Gehenna is Hell. Outer darkness is not Hell. Outer darkness is that place outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ during the millennium. It's like being in a dark forest but the cabin is like the millennial reign. When they come out of the cabin then those in the forest can come out to go to the New City and New Earth. Or it is light painting a house but getting paint all over yourself because you are sloppy. Washing the paint off with gasoline stings; this is like outer darkness before you can enter the shower and marriage feast. If you were careful outer darkness would not be needed.

Baptism doesn't save anyone. It is merely a symbol dying to the world after getting saved going down into the water, and coming up symbolizing resurrection, and coming out of the world. It is the sense we no longer belong to the world as we come up out of the water with newness of life. It is a sense within oneself this is their experience and can be acted out through water baptism and ...

Passivity Overturned

After determining what one’s normalcy is, the Christian’s next important step is to battle for recovery. We should not forget, however, that the adversary will try his best to retain the ground he has won exactly as earthly rulers jealously guard their territories. We cannot expect the powers of darkness to surrender their citadels without a struggle. Quite the reverse, they will fight to the very end.

Let us realize that, while it is most easy to cede any ground, it requires an enormous effort to recover it. Yet we should pay particular attention to this observation: that just as each nation has laws and their legal judgments must be absolutely obeyed, so in God’s universe there are spiritual laws whose legal judgments are so authoritative that even the devils cannot disobey. If we learn these spiritual laws and act on them the evil spirits will be forced to return what they have taken.

The most basic and consequential law of the spirit realm is that nothing pertaining to man can be accomplished without the consent of his will. It is through ignorance that a child of God accepted the deceit of the evil spirits and permitted them to work in his life. Now he must recover the relinquished territory; and to do so he must exercise his will to overturn his earlier consent by insisting that he is his own master and will not tolerate the enemy manipulating any segment of his being. In such a warfare as this the evil spirits cannot violate spiritual law; and hence they must retreat. At the beginning the believer’s mind was usurped by the wicked powers through its passivity; this in turn ushered in the passivity of the will. Now the believer should declare by God’s law that his mind belongs to him, that he is going to use it and will not permit any outside force to instigate, employ or control his mind. If he relentlessly retreats from passivity and exercises his mind, the latter gradually shall be liberated till it attains to its original state. (Later we shall have more to say on recovering the ground and its battle.)

In this conflict the child of God must exercise his mind. He must take the initiative in each action and not depend on anyone else. If possible he must make his own decision, not waiting passively for other people or for more conducive environment. He must not glance back at the past nor worry concerning the future but learn to live just for this moment. Prayerfully ...

The Wiles of the Evil Spirits

If his eyes have been opened to see his condition, the believer will naturally search for deliverance. Realize, though, that the evil spirits are not going to let their captives go free without a fight. They will apply every ounce of strength upon the person to prevent him from securing deliverance.

The evil spirits will suggest many lies to serve as excuses:

Those sudden beautiful thoughts of yours are from God.
Those flashing revelations are the fruits of spirituality.
That bad memory is due to your ill-health.
It is natural for you to become abruptly forgetful.
Your over-sensitiveness is because of your temperament.
Your weak memory is inherited.
Insomnia is an outgrowth of sickness. You are simply tired.
You cannot think because you have worked too hard.
That incessant contemplation at night stems from your mind’s overexhaustion in the daytime.
Impure thoughts arise from your sins.
You already have fallen.
You cannot listen to others because of your particular environment and because of their faults.

The evil spirits can manufacture sundry other excuses. Unless God’s children realize they are really being attacked and have actually fallen from the normal state, the enemy will engage these and other excuses like them to cover up the ground they have gained. But the true reason lies in the fact that the mind is passive and vacuous, and thus occupied by these satanic spirits. Every one of these phenomena is the effect of their pernicious working. We grant the possibility of natural causes being mixed in with these excuses, but the experience of so many saints confirms that the powers of darkness are extremely subtle in operating alongside natural causes so as to deceive the saints into accepting these natural causes—such as temperament, physical condition and environment—as the only explanation, forgetting altogether the subtle mixing in by the evil spirits. The latter are very delighted in hiding their works behind some little natural cause. There is one test which can be brought to bear here, however; and that is, that if the cause is natural the man’s condition will be restored to normal once the natural factor is eliminated: but were there something supernatural added to the natural, then the man will not recover even though the natural element is removed. If you have insomnia, for example, ...

Before and After Regeneration

THE MIND OF MAN is his organ of thought. Through it he is equipped to know, think, imagine, remember, and understand. Man’s intellect, reasoning, wisdom and cleverness all pertain to the mind. Broadly speaking the mind is the brain. Mind is a psychological term whereas brain is a physiological term. The mind of psychology is the brain of physiology. Man’s mind occupies a large place in his life because his thought easily influences his action.

Before Regeneration

According to the Bible the mind of man is unusual in that it constitutes a battlefield where Satan and his evil spirits contend against the truth and hence against the believer. We may illustrate as follows. Man’s will and spirit are like a citadel which the evil spirits crave to capture. The open field where the battle is waged for the seizure of the citadel is man’s mind. Note how Paul the Apostle describes it: “though we live in the world we are not carrying on a worldly war, for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ” (2 Cor. 10.3-5). He initially tells us of a battle—then where the battle is fought—and finally for what objective. This struggle pertains exclusively to man’s mind. The Apostle likens man’s arguments or reasonings to an enemy’s strongholds. He pictures the mind as held by the enemy; it must therefore be broken into by waging war. He concludes that many rebellious thoughts are housed in these strongholds and need to be taken captive to the obedience of Christ. All this plainly shows us that the mind of man is the scene of battle where the evil spirits clash with God.

Scripture explains that before regeneration “the god of this world (had) blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God” (2 Cor. 4.4). This verse concurs in what the other verse just quoted said by declaring here that Satan holds on to man’s mind by making it blind. Some people perhaps may consider themselves extremely wise in their ability to advance many arguments against the gospel; others may take for granted that unbelief is due to dullness of understanding; but the truth in both cases is that the eyes of man’s mind have been covered by Satan. When firmly ...