Rambo123UK,
We know when the body of dust (Gen. 2.7) was forming the last 13.7 billion years to reach its point of God's desire about 6000 years ago when we were made in His image (spirit, soul and body) in the first Adam. But included in that forming of dust includes any other causes before the universe since nothing in nature happens all by itself, but is always preceded by yet another cause. This has been our experience in things we did not know the cause, but later discovered it. Just because something is vastly complicated does not mean it happens all by itself. That would be very presumptuous and lacking significant humility.Originally Posted by Rambo123UK
So if there had been an eternity of the past of our body forming, then surely we would be without sin by now since we can see just in these past 6000 years that there has been an exponential progression in our conscience.
The demarcation point of Adam and the pre-Adamic man is that Adam will be resurrected and pre-Adamic men will just cease to exist. Even if you don't want to be saved and go to hell, you still have to be resurrected because you are made in God's image (Gen. 1.26,27).
The exponential curve in the improvement of our conscience increases so that it approximates infinity. This shows it will not take a billion years, a million years or even 6000 years more to reach sinlessness in the saved, though the unsaved will always remain separated from God to be locked in hell forever. Do a calculation yourself by seeing the number of murders per capita each century going back the past 6000 years.
Conclusion remains: we were created and so was the universe since the dust is part of the universe that we are made out of.
The 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible makes no assumption first about if God exists or if Jesus is God, but through the Proof we discover that Jesus is God. The burden of the proof is on you to show otherwise. Sin is not assumed either, but we obviously put people in jail because they do wrong. This is sin as are many other kinds. I am glad your qualification for a starting point has been met in the 4 Step Proof.More to the point, this "proof" presupposes that the biblical god exists, and that 'sin' is real. Any serious proof of the existence of god cannot use this as a starting point.
Quantum mechanics has never been proven to be acausal. Just because you are not smart enough to see the cause does not meant the cause is not there. Fairy tales of it happened all by itself are without evidence. Just because something is very small also is not cause to think it does not have its component causes. Thus, we must accept the fact that there is a cause to the bing bang or the moment preceding it. The common word used to describe the moment before the big big as singularity also has its natural intricacies if it is itself still in nature or material existence and space.Much as you might not like it, quantum mechanics can be acausal. The early universe, if you think back and reverse the big bang process, must have once been smaller than the planck length - and thus also causality would not have applied. Taking it further, it would follow that the start of the universe could be likened to a naked singularity - and again, causality and in fact, normal physical laws - do not apply here. You might not like it, but your refusal to accept quantum mechanical principles marks you out as an ostrich. You stick your head in the sand when confronted with things you don't want to see or hear. Quantum mechanics is the most heavilly tested scientific theory there is, and proven to give the most accurate results.
Now if you want to define this singularity as being outside of the natural realm which you are free to suggest, then it is in the supernatural, and therefore we must ask what is the supernatural agent that is the cause of all things? Creator if you will. The Designer would be God of the Bible, the Trinity, given Christ exceeding all others by comparison. Christian quantum physicists agree, thus exposing the overassuming nature of the unsaved scientists (ostriches with their heads in the sand on the way to hell). Or in other words, shutting their minds down by overassuming puff the magic dragon it happened all by itself. This is not quantum mechanics, for nothing in quantum mechanics says the universe happened all by itself. Proper quantum mechanics says it doesn't know what preceded the big bang or singularity. That's proper science. Nor does God create Himself. He always ways. So if it turns out there is nothing preceding the big bang, then the cause is God. If there is a singularity, then the cause of the singularity is God since nothing in the causes and effects of the dust ultimately causes itself.
You're missing the point. Having proven God of the Bible in Step 1 & 2, Step 3 introduces a last stand at the O.K Corral where the skeptic will try to argue against some facet of another god that is not the attribute of God of the Bible, so Step 3 is commonly introduced to remind the skeptic so they may go onto Step 4 for their final attempt which deals with the supernatural causes and effects if they exist in gods creating gods.You have this the wrong way around. If you wish to prove the existence of the biblical god, you must do so. If there is a disproof for any god, then it follows that the biblical god cannot possibly exist. Conversely, proving the possibility of the existence of a generic deity does not prove that the god of the bible exists.
You can disprove other gods, we are always pleased when you do so, but that does no damage to God of the Bible because God of the Bible is uniquely unlike any of those gods.
The 4 Step Proof of God of the Bible does two things: It proves God exists, and it proves Jesus is the only one who is God because only He said He is God and proved it in His resurrection (this is embedded in the larger portion of the Proof).
The Proof does not demand the supernatural eternity of the past, but if there is a supernatural of an eternity of the past of causes and effects of gods creating gods, immaterial and space-less causes and effects, they would fall for the same reason as was shown in Step #1 because you would not still be sinning now if such an idea were true.Step four is a reiteration of step one, except that the supernatural is invoked. A proof of god cannot use the existence of the supernatural as proof without first proving the existence of the supernatural! Your "proof" may satisfy god botherers but it is laughable to non believers, because it is entirely based in your acceptance of the scriptures and rejection of science. It, and you, are a joke.
The Proof never went to the Scriptures first, but only through the clear reasoning of the Proof do we find the 66 books of the Bible to be the Word of God Jesus Christ, and that the Trinity held council to create at least 13.7 billion years ago. The reason why such clear reason is laughable to skeptics is because they prefer to cling onto an overassuming view of puff the magic dragon that it happened all by itself, but in science not such idea is ever proposed, so you are going against the very foundations of quantum physics and science itself. I feel it is a joke that you would use such an ad hoc and silly idea to be the reason you want to go to hell.
Just be intellectually honest with yourself that such a silly reason for rejecting God is not you real reason. Your real reason for rejecting God is because you like being in sin, and you don't want to give up the life you have now that you think you would have to change drastically to be saved. Such an assumption is not entirely correct. You can still do many of the things you are doing now after your spirit is regenerated by the Holy Spirit and you are given new life in the new creation. Eternal life does not mean you shut down shop, but you handle things better in the shop by the Holy Spirit and move through God's design to allow God to perfect you and to be with Him in the new city because you have the same eternal life.
Amen.:notworthy:
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