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Thread: Why Calvinism is so completely and utterly wrong!

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    Default Why Calvinism is so completely and utterly wrong!

    People accuse calvinism as being wrong because they say it denies free-will. That is not what calvinists believe. They deem the choices made in the Bible free-will. There is so much sinning bearing false witness in the flesh of men. Ask any calvinist, and they will tell you they believe man has a free-will, so what are they really saying then?

    What calvinists are wrong about is they believe they are premade for salvation like robots, which puffs up. They don't think they were premade for hell, but for heaven, because God saved them so they could believe. Their spirit can not sense it is wrong for God to premake people for just hell or heaven. They kill the image of God, because they say in order to come out of total depravity (a false teaching), they can't come to the cross from the image of God in which they are made (this first grace), but that God had to have unconditionally premade them irresistibly and limitedly, like the arian nation or natural selection. They truly despise Gen. 1.26,27, the garden choice an Abel's right offering. God foreknew the choice that Abel would make. He chose Abel because He foreknew his choice.

    They really do despise that God can predestinate by foreknowing our choice. They have no faith to believe God is all-knowing to have this ability. So instead the calvinist believes the person needs to be preprogrammed long before to be saved - this is what they mean by "chosen," which is not in the same sense as "chosen" by God predestinating by foreknowledge (Rom. 8.29) of our choice.

    "Chosen by premaking" does not glorify God. God does not want to walk with robots, but man made in His image who receives the cross. Obviously calvinism is a Pharisaical heresy, because though we are still fallen, we are still made in God's image, so yes, we can come to the cross, not by the will of the flesh but by that part of the will made in God's image which God allows us to receive the redemptive design. The image of God can not be destroyed by the mind of a calvinist. Never, and I repeat, never say that God saves you first then you can believe. This is a zombiism.

    If a cult doesn't teach non-OSAS to (control you and passify you), they seem to want to teach calvinism (pride you up and passify you). In either case, the cult (RCC or Reformers, e.g. puritans, presbyterians, lutherans) want to passify you to control you into their system. It is not so pure or presbyr is it? Luther was notoriously confused, for he couldn't let go of the false teaching of total depravity while contradictorily still believing in resistible grace. Those who know anything about lutheranism know this matter always gets shoved under the rug. You can't have it both ways. Either we can resist God's grace because we are not totally deprave (though fallen), or we can't because we are zombies. Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8).

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    "Total depravity" is considered in God's eyes to be an idol. Not only is the remedy in calvinism wrong to man's fallen nature, but so is their perspective on their version of what needs to be remedied.

    They seek to remedy something that is not as they say it is, not being able to distinguish the difference between a fallen nature and a total depravity.

    Remember clearly that total depravity is a condition, unlike the fall, which requires that the man need to be premade for salvation, because this totally deprave condition of the whole man will never be able to come to the cross and not even allow access of the image of God to come to the cross to receive saving grace unless the drawing is God's premaking.

    This is the problem with fanatics and extremists is that their particular idol leads to additional mistaken assumptions as sin begets sin. I am not sure if they will ever be willing to repent. It is a very dangerous condition. I would not want to be in their shoes since God righteously God does not save this way and never will - a preservation of those non-saints.

    Calvinism does deny original sin since they say the original sin leads to total depravity to the point of killing the image of God effectively unable to choose so that the drawing from God is God premaking the person like a robot. The fallen nature does not kill the image of God man is made in. Ironically calvinists are really pegagians because they den the original cause. The original sin causes man to fall, but not be unable to come to the cross, drawn and called by God. God wants to walk with those whom choose His life, not those who are premade out of total depravity. So in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, we reject any notion of legalisms why one might use if they were a bad lawyer.

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    Of all the verses in the Bible, I can find none more powerful than this, to expose a calvinist, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate" (Rom. 8.29).

    They change "foreknow" to "know" because they can't have God foreknowing our free choice ("whosoevereth" John 3.16) made in His image.

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    What do men who like to just self-declare things have in common with the great accuser? He can't back up his accusations either. He spouts whatever mindlessly. That's the proof. After the experience of talking to over 100 calvinists and reading it seems every faulty argument, the calvinist has nothing. If the calvinist is not the tare, then who? Calvnists try desparately with 1001 articles to show they are regenerated first before they can believe in the pride of thinking they are premade for salvation like a robot when they say God has to elect them unconditional to cause them to have faith. Crazy stuff!

    Christians, my brothers and sisters in Christ, believe that we are elected conditionally in humility. That is, God foreknew our choice before the foundations of the world (Rom. 8.29). Calvinists hate this verse so much they literally try to change the word foreknow to know because they despise God's omniscient foreknowledge and the image of God in our free-choice. From pelagian false view of original sin to the false teaching of total depravity to the man-made ideology of regeneration before faith roboticism, ends up effectively killing the grace of the image of God to choose which then is a believing in a corrupted lesser god (gnosticism).

    Even a calvinist is not an automaton, though I am sure they feel like one as that is how they come across. They cannot sense their conscience is dead because it can't sense this premaking could never glorify God and God would not want to be with robots. Calvinists are oblivious they are going to hell as the tares. They really don't believe in Jesus Christ. Wow!

    It is sad to lose even one soul to hell. Christians need to learn to kick the dust under the feet and leave a calvinist remain in their own you know what. I would be happy to help them if their spirit was open, but they don't want to be saved, not really. We should not cast pearls before unsave swine. We could be sinning if we try further to help them when we have done all we can do. It is a waste of time for God's children to help a dullard who will never be born-again.

    This is what they are saying about themselves by their own words, so John 3.18 says they are condemned already. I really believe they are condemned already by God Almighty because they will never repent and are eternally hostile to God in their inner man, even deeper.

    This has been a very powerful message for me to know in all my experiences with calvinists, they are the tares of Matthew 13 whom Jesus will put the sickle to, and may anyone who reads this message sence the authenticity of these words, so less people are corrupted by the pride of calvinism. Though I am at peace with this knowing some people just want to go to hell, I believe God is very angry with those who try to look like the saved wheat without every truly repenting to the cross. Perhaps there is nothing worse. You might even say their hell will be worse than the hell for atheists/agnostics.

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    Churchwork,

    I must say that I am shocked and appalled that you would post such slander against those who are labeled by others as Calvinists. ALL FOUR of your posts presented here are attacking straw men and do not represent anything that I believe. I am a Reformed Christian, and a member of the Westminster Fellowship (you can google it) which is a Reformed Christian Society, I am a member of the Presbyterian Church in America. I have been a Reformed Christian for the last 5 years when God revealed to me in His Word the amazing doctrine of Grace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork
    They really do despise that God can predestinate by foreknowing our choice. They have no faith to believe God is all-knowing to have this ability. So instead the calvinist believes the person needs to be preprogrammed long before to be saved - this is what they mean by "chosen," which is not in the same sense as "chosen" by God predestinating by foreknowledge (Rom. 8.29) of our choice.
    I don't despise anything of the sort. I do have faith that God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and almighty. Calvinism does not, and has NEVER declared or stated that you must be "pre-programmed" to be saved. On the contrary, it is by a SUPERNATURAL intervention of God through the Holy Spirit that draws us to Christ. It requires God to literally grab us and take our dead spiritual corpse and renew it and bring it back to life so that we can know the Good things of God.

    God does not chose people by looking down the corridor of time to see who would chose him. (See 2 Timothy 1:9; Romans 9:15 - 24; Acts 13:48; John 3; John 15:16) I am bound to the Word of God, not to the words of man.

    Please sir, if you disagree with someone and would like to refute them, please do not misrepresent your opponent as you will only hinder your argument.

    Prayerfully your brother and servant in Christ,

    Missionary

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    When a Calvinist claims they are irresistibly regenerated, that is "pre-programmed". God does not supernaturally intervene by irresistibly regenerating someone and denying others the opportunity for salvation. That would be evil. God needs to quicken our dead spirit which occurs when a person is born-again, but before He will do so, you must be willing to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. Alas, you are unwilling and that's why you are going to Hell. God looks down the corridor of time to predestinate according to our free-choice. Your god is unable to do this. You couldn't get any of those verses to agree with you.

    I am glad you couldn't show an misrepresentation on my part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    When a Calvinist claims they are irresistibly regenerated, that is "pre-programmed". God does not supernaturally intervene by irresistibly regenerating someone and denying others the opportunity for salvation.
    Absolutely not. Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit in which the Spirit of God supernaturally intervenes in the Sinners life and revives their spiritually dead heart and draws them to Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    That would be evil.
    What you are calling evil is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    God needs to quicken our dead spirit which occurs when a person is born-again, but before He will do so, you must be willing to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated.
    Let us look at the Gospel of John... John 3:1-15 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

    The Spirit which regenerates the sinner goes where it wants too. Jesus uses the word 'born' here in two instances. One for being physically born our birthday :), and the other our birth in the Spirit. When one is born, it is something that happens to one not what one does. Your mother birthed you, you had absolutely no free will choice in the matter. Your mamma pushed you out and you took your first breath of air and lived, same with the Spirit of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    Alas, you are unwilling and that's why you are going to Hell. God looks down the corridor of time to predestinate according to our free-choice. Your god is unable to do this. You couldn't get any of those verses to agree with you.
    My God is saves every single person that he is fix'in to save. Not a single one of them are lost to the second death. Your god is unable to save those whom he wishes. IF God looked down the corridor of time to see who would believe the Gospel and turn to him. The number of believers would be absolutely zero. (see Romans 3 & 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    I am glad you couldn't show an misrepresentation on my part.
    That depends on what you are trying to represent. I do not know what you are representing in your first four posts, but it is most definitely NOT Calvinism. Represent true Calvinism, and not a stawman and perhaps we could have a discussion on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missionary View Post
    IF God looked down the corridor of time to see who would believe the Gospel and turn to him

    Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit in which the Spirit of God supernaturally intervenes in the Sinners life and revives their spiritually dead heart and draws them to Christ.
    You've admitted that you didn't repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. That's why you are not born-again. Since you prefer a selfish salvation, God won't save you.

    God draws everyone to Christ but many such as yourself "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). He's the "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" (Rom. 4.10). It wouldn't make much sense to say "Savior of all men who believe, specially those who believe."

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    Sir,

    All I know is what you are preaching and the spirit in which you are preaching it is completely foreign to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My trust is in my God and Savior Jesus Christ, who saved me from witchcraft, idolatry, lust and the rest of my sins and my nature. When I came into the Body of Christ, I was a man who hated and was at war with God. I am Born Again. Why? Because I was Born Again.

    You sir, have not answered any of my questions in anyway shape or form.

    When I stand before my God and he asked me why I should be allowed into the Consumated Kingdom my only reply will be, "Because of Sola Christus!" That is, "Because of Christ Alone!"

    Please address the issues I have raised, and the passages of Scripture.

    Also have you read anything by Calvinists?

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    You're still involved in idolatry which is Total depravity and it's your point of pride. Since Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world and provides sufficient grace for us all to be able to respond, then none of us are Totally depraved. Amen.

    1 Tim. 4.10 is one of the best verses to help you see the Bible is against Calvinism.

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