Ken Gibson deceived by Christopher Hitchens

[Churchwork]

http://www.racquetballcanadaevents.c...8449&UID=28449 (Ken Gibson)

Re: "God is Not Great...How Religion Poisons Everything" by Christopher Hitchens

Well...

You kind of forgot the RC Inquisition, didn't you? There's about 600 years or so of torture and murder for your religion. Not to mention a few of "God's" temper tantrums from the Old Testament, old boy? Destroy cities, smash the babies against rocks, etc... I guess you're right. Religion is always right in what it does because it is justified not matter what.
Who created who when it comes to god and creation itself?
If God created everything, who created him???
I guess God must have had a bad moment when he created you, right?

Hey, guess what! I'm not religious and I can still play racquetball!

And by the way...Chris Hitchens' book is on the best seller list. Pretty good for a dullard!

Regards,

Ken

Would Christ do that? No. So why assume that is Christ? In the OT God hates sin, so what you are really defending is human sacrifices. The difference between your religion and God's religion is His is always right, holy and true. Whereas you push out lies to do your father's bidding, that is Satan.

How can nature cause itself? We know everything in nature has a cause. Therefore the uncreated must exist. This is what we call God who intelligently designed.

God is not in nature, but nature proves the uncreated exists. The uncreated always existed. That is what uncreated means.

God values every last soul as intrinsic value, even you. It hurts His heart that you are going to Hell, but He can't force you to accept His love and His desire for fellowship with you.

You can't beat me at racquetball, and you are still religious, but your religion is the religion of antichrist.

The path to destruction is wide, and the gate and path to everlasting life is narrow. So much for Hitchens eh?

Wow...you seem to know God personally to actually know what he thinks about things and what his plans are.
My hat is off to you.

I just like to keep my mind open, thanks. Yours appears eternally closed which is what religion asks you to do. To be blindly led without question like a sheep. You're part of the flock for sure. A perfect little template for whatever sect you belong to... Your god gave you a brain supposedly, but then forbid you to use it rationally. You're stuck in the past, in the dark ages. Hey, there's actually a reality outside your cave! Take a look...you might like it.

"In dark ages, people are best guided by religion, as in a pitch black night a blind man is the best guide; he knows the roads and paths better than a man who can see. When daylight comes, however, it is foolish to use blind old men as guides.

Cheers

Ken

I think your mind is closed because God proved Himself the uncreated and by His resurrection, and I gave you the very proof. You testify that you can't find anything wrong with the proofs I gave you, though you can talk in vagaries.

Normally a person with an open mind goes with the evidence, but you shut your mind down like you are playing the lottery or something, holding out for who knows what, contrary to the existing evidence.

Try to think things through more conscientiously and it won't be long before you realize how deceived you've been, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/garyhabermas.htm

Therefore, your own words apply to you: "A perfect little template for whatever sect [your party spirit] you belong to... Your god [whatever you hold of most value in life] gave you a brain supposedly, but then forbid you to use it rationally [why do you shut your mind down to the fact that group hallucinations are impossible?]. You're stuck in the past, in the dark ages [just as there were antichrists and atheists in the past so there are now, but it is illogical]. Hey, there's actually a reality outside your cave! [Of course there is, it is called Hell, where you are going]. Take a look...you might like it [Nope!]."

Sorry, but once-saved-always-saved. If you are truly born-again, even you admit I am, then you would know according to the Word of God you can never lose salvation because when the Holy Spirit regenerates your inner man with eternal life, it is eternal. It can never be lost.

Understand why you don't give your life to Christ. It is because you are too scared to do so. You would have to give up control of self in your selfish life you cling to so desperately. And the expectations in your mind what it would mean to be saved, but they are mostly misconceptions. You're a sinner, all sin gets punished and leads to death and the second death which is Hell. Unless you accept His atonement for forgiveness, there is no other recourse. He did all He can do. Now it is up to you. A sinner doesn't want to accept even God's exists, because then he would have to change his sinful ways. You're just a bad guy on his way to Hell. Just be honest with yourself that's what you want.

Evidence was given and you can't overturn it; you can't even overturn these 12 facts almost all SKEPTICAL scholars agree to (see the Gary Habermas link) which lead to the proof Jesus is God by His resurrection. Think about that.

Proofs? Hmmm..."proof " is something which is shown to be true. It is something that can be replicated by others. Your proof would be appreciated by any Imam or Haitian voodoo doctor I'm pretty sure. But this is the modern age, not 1398 when the earth was flat. I just finished watching a debate between Rev Sharpton and Chris Hitchens which is like watching a child debating with a genius. At the end of the debate, Rev Sharpton even recommends that people buy Chris' book "God is Not Great...How Religion Poisons Everything." Highly recommend it!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...76135764757633

I know you will not watch it however, because you're mind is closed to facts and open only to the dogma of your cult. You surely know the dogma and what your god thinks. Do you know Benny Hinn too? You should try the faith healing routine...there's big money in gullibility. It's spelled R E L I G I O N.

It's been a slice.

Ken

Did you buy that atheist book? It was on the top-seller list. Christian books don't bring in those numbers.

You can't replicate the big bang, but you know it is true and scientists are virtually unanimous it occurred about 13.7 billion years ago because their models bring us back to that point.

I don't know of any Imam or Haitian voodoo doctor that I know of that professes to be the uncreated Creator, so how do they compare? But lets say they did. What proof do they give they are the uncreated Creator? Jesus provides the well attested resurrection appearances in various group settings, and of course people don't go to their deaths for a what they know is a lie, nor does modern psychology allow for group hallucinations.

In 4 minutes, I clearly explained it to you here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4reKVz4CVs

The Bible teaches, believe it or not, the earth was round, not flat. It pictures a person in a ship looking off the horizon with the curvature of the land or ocean and objects dropping off in the distance. You experience the same effect even more pronouncedly when you are standing on top of a high building or flying a plane.

I watched the entire video. What made you think Hitchens won the debate with Al Sharpton? I thought Hitchens lost the argument by being unable to disprove the resurrection proof of Jesus and that nothing in nature happens all by itself; hence, the uncreated must exist. Also I thought it strange how Hitchens argued against what Sharpton continued to advise Hitchens not to argue against, that is, false misrepresentations of God or misreadings of Scripture. How is it that if morals come from us but we didn't create ourselves that we can ultimately be the source of our morals? That makes no sense. It is like Hitchens is calling Himself God when he makes that claim.

Czar's of Russia were also leaders of the Orthodox Church apparently, but of course, the Orthodox Church (teaching non-OSAS and amillennialism) is not Christian, nor could a leader in an atheist country ever attain the status of a Christian which is meek and lowly, because ruler ship is attained by dictatorial force, whereas Christianity is free-willing. Hitchens argument is not to take such men on faith, but this is just more of Hitchens agreeing with Christianity, for Christians, in fact, don't take someone else's beliefs on faith just because they might say they are Christian. We are to test the spirits and prove all things.

Hitchens wonders why good things happen to good people. He is first assuming they are good. Secondly, when great tsunami's occurred in a region, we can allow for God doing damage to that area for reasons:

1. great amount of child prostitution in Thailand;
2. man has experienced time and again storms in that region but continues to live there;
3. man shows overall his lack of conscientiousness and conscience to build up the population to the levels that it is so people have to live in dangerous areas. The garden of Eden was safe, but as man's sin increased, he became arrogant enough to think he could live in such hot zones;
4. like in the flood in Noah's day, some people get caught in the flood or under the crossfire because it is inescapable in a natural system God has created. It wouldn't be realistic otherwise. But it does not mean all such individuals are unsaved. If you were saved but got hit by a bus tomorrow that would not impact on your eternal life whatsoever. God works all things together for those who love Him. If He is ready to let you go now, even martyred for Christ, your reward is coming. But let's say you were not born-again. Then you got hit by a bus tomorrow. God takes that into account as well, that it is permitted because you were never going to give your life to Christ or you had more than ample grace already.

Hitchens says don't bring your religious toys to his house. But then why is he allowed to bring his religious antichrist toys to our house? Do you see the double standard? Then he continues to misrepresent Christianity as bullying with these toys, but was Jesus that way? Of course not. It is a false argument Hitchens uses, violating Step 3 of the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God: don't misrepresent God if you want to argue against Him. But Hitchens seems to be that way, intolerantly so, for a Christian says that Hitchens can bring to the table his toys to examine them, but we are not allowed to bring our toys to compare to his toys. Again, this is a double standard and at the end of the day, that is unethical. Hitchens says if you are offended, there is repercussions, for his people will just come and kill your people, because Hitchens (apparently so paranoid), thinks Christians would come to kill him, because offended people kill their enemies. But again, I ask, would Jesus do that? No! There you have it. Do you see the higher conscience, like, power and purity in Christ? You should because He created you.

Did you watch the one I sent you where William Lane Craig (scholar) destroyed Hitchens' arguments? Or do you have a doublestandard closing your mind down? Why don't you treat others as you would like to be treated? So you see there is a thing called conscience which needs be quickened by the Holy Spirit, otherwise your righteousness is faulty, cultic, seared and just self-righteousness. Hence, you need to give your life to Christ to be born-again, for all things sum up in Christ; He is the way, the truth and life. He is the first and the last, and nothing was made that was made without Him. Before the foundations of the world He created you and foreknew you when you would be born.

I do not believe Benny Hinn is born-again, for you don't see his antics in Scripture. It's genuine in God's Word. Not parlor tricks. I don't believe Benny Hinn was born-again because he claimed Jesus was going to appear physically in the churches. Still hasn't happened. The deceiver will say, if it is a miracle, it must be of God, so they are being set up for false miracles and the signs and wonders of the Antichrist. Benny Hinn touches this man and the man falls down five times and his wig falls off five times to just see the wig fly off each time. That is what Benny Hinn said. Crazy huh? It's a carnival. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqSgVVVinxE.

Benny Hinn: "Ladies and gentleman, Jesus is shaking the world! Now something else is happening that is to me awesome! Absolutely awesome! The Lord is physically appearing in the Muslim world. I'm telling you, Paul, I am hearing it now more and more and more. Since we preachers cannot go there, Jesus is, just going there Himself. Since we preachers are not permitted to go in, He is just showing up Himself. You know the Scriptures says clearly that the Lord did appear, did He not? Ah for forty days, isn't that right? And the Scriptures says He, He, He even, He even appeared to Paul. He's doing the same thing today in the Muslim world. He's appearing, hear this, He is appearing to Muslims, saying I am Jesus of Nazareth! And they're coming to know the Lord!" http://www.ondoctrine.com/10hinn.htm#prophecies

The Bible says when Jesus returns physically we will all know it.

Sharpton is a false Christian also, for there are not tongues in the Bible meaning gibberish babble. That is an alteration of God's Word. It is a false spirit working in him. Supporting *** marriage when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their pervasive homosexuality? The Bible is quite clear homosexuality is an abomination in the OT and NT. Barack Obama's Pastor, Jeremiah Wright has recently given Louis Farrakhan the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Lifetime Achievement Trumpeteer Award. The racist Farrakhan has said in sermons that he is both Jesus and Elijah. Not only is Obama a false Christian, but so is Sharpton and Farrakhan, holding the same view. Al Sharpton is almost a Muslim. Sharpton has close fellowship with Louis Farrakhan and the nation of Islam. He was at the Million Man March in 1995. He is a high degree Mason. He prays in the name of Allah.

Realize who you are gullible for? Satan works under cover by first getting you to shut your mind down to the fact there must be uncreated Creator, then secondly, diverting your attention anyway he can away from Christ or to reject Christ in some way. Satan's objective is to bring you to Hell with him. Satan has been around for probably billions of years, so don't underestimate how deceitful he can be and how deceived you can be by him. When the Antichrist comes, he will be so convincing almost everyone will believe him. This takes humility to accept if you are willing.

Remember, the Bible teaches there will be many false Christians, so is it illogical for you to accuse Christianity by way of false Christians. That would be blaming you for being a rapist because you like to watch pornos. Jesus said in Matthew 13 there will be many unsaved tares trying to look like the saved wheat. You are actually agreeing with the Bible in a way, because you think these false men are false. So do I.

Shouldn't you listen to a debate between a Christian and non-Christian rather than a fake Christian and non-Christian? So listen to the debate between William Lane Craig and Hitchens I first proposed. Don't be lazy, http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2883

[Churchwork]

I only replied to your crazy email because you dragged religion into somewhere it didn't belong. Don't shove your religion at me. If you wish to get that warm, gushy feeling from your religious beliefs, go for it. But please don't force it on others who have a different belief system. That is what causes problems. That is Taliban stuff. Rule by fear. You say I'll burn in Hell for not believing what you do. That, my friend is how the church operates. Rule by fear...it's your modus operendi. 600 years and 30 million deaths during the Inquisition made Pope Innocent 3 a famous guy. A real role model for you I'm sure. God's representative on earth.

What I noticed was the action of men hostile were intolerant to those who are born-again. You noticed I noticed this, so you just had to reply, because you yourself are not-born and are going to Hell. You want to rationalize your flesh to me and defend your religion of antichrist which seeps into every aspect of your life.

Notice how you shut your mind down and didn't respond and deal with what was said in my previous post or even respond in kind by watching the William Lane Craig vs. Hitchens debate. Is it too painful for you to come out of your closed [atheist] box?

Why does your religion of antichrist belong, but not the religion of God in Christ? Why are you allowed to shove your religion down my throat, but I can speak plainly in response to your mistaken assumptions? One is always exposed by their double standards, not treating others as you would like to be treated.

Salvation does not commence in your outerman's feelings, for regeneration always begins in your inner spirit where God quickens it with new life. Why do you cling to your hard feelings? That's Taliban stuff. That's your atheism too with your Stalin who killed 40 million, your Hitler who killed 20 million and your Mao who killed 60 million. Like God said He will harden the Pharaoh's heart because He knows He can't go the other way with you to convince you, so He will keep hardening you until you break down. Then there could be the slight chance you will prostrate yourself before Him.

I think you are a fearful man, because a fearful man can't give up control he has on himself and place his trust in his Creator. It is too scary after being a selfish creature of habit for so long; you don't know any better. Imagine the fear your Mao, Stalin and Hitler must have had on the populace under atheism? The reason you don't want God to exist is because then you would be accountable, but if you shut your mind down, you can delusionally pretend there are no consequences to engorging in your sin nature and self. How deceived man can be!

Would a loving God allow you to be with the saved? That would be like letting a rapist out of jail to attack his victims again. Therefore, where else can you spend in eternity but in Hell, because you can't, obviously, be with those who love God in the New City and New Earth. That would not be healthy for those who are sanctified.

The Church is the pearl of great price, so beautiful to God because it is the organizing the corporate body of Christ. Man has a hard time getting along with his fellow man, but through the Church God sees His children in fellowship and harmony, in perfect obedience from the Head to the body and to one another. It is like a symphony. This is how it will be in eternity-to-come, but unto perfection, spotless without sin. We are going through birth pains right now. But at the consummation of this last church age of "differing opinions" rapture will commence with God's overcomer believers before the Tribulation commences (sometime this century).

Since God is proven to exist because nature can't cause itself, then you have no excuse for denying the necessity for the uncreated Creator. And you have no excuse for denying Jesus as your Lord and Savior, for God's Son entered into creation to pay the penalty for man's sins, the only way God could redeem back to Himself, whosoever is willing. If you are so blind and selfish and unwilling to give it up for God Almighty, there is nothing more He can do for you. There is no greater love than what His only begotten Son did for you on the cross, shedding His precious blood for forgiveness of sins to be truly forgiven before God, cleansed and purified so you can come "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in heaven.

Man rules by fear as we seen in your followers and Hitchens who admits the solution is to kill those people in other nations who don't don't bow to USA. Whereas, God rules by holiness, love, truth and righteousness. No matter how difficult a situation becomes, you must always do the right thing by the Holy Spirit, and so you shall be rewarded by God, but first you must be born-again, for that is the only doorway into God's kingdom.

You make the same mistaken Hitchens makes by accusing those in Christ for the Inquisition, but would Jesus do that? Study Matthew 13 and Revelation 17 to read about the false tares that like to look like the saved wheat and "religious Rome" which God said He will destroy in Revelation 17 just prior to destroying "political Rome" in Revelation 18. In a way, you are agreeing with Scripture, for Jesus condemns the Inquisition also. You have more in common with Jesus than you realize. However, as long as you are not born-again and keeping accusing Jesus Christ, you have no portion in the kingdom of God, for He said, "whoever is not with me is against me." Aren't you now? You are antichrist. That's your religion, ever day you wake up, this is your purpose to continue to shut your mind down and live under the god of this world who is Satan for the cares of the world. Whereas Christians, though we are in the world, we are not of the world. We are sojourners, just passing through.

It's pretty difficult to debate with someone who is religious because they have no proof of anything, just blind faith. It's a closed loop because it cannot be proved or disproved. I can believe in the Easter Bunny. I happen to know that millions of little humans devoutly believe that the Easter Bunny exists. He doesn't...he is manmade. But any child would argue the fact.

I try to treat people how I'd like to be treated. That's my belief system. I should start my own religion with that as it's only tenet.

Have a nice day.

There is only One True Religion and that is worship in Christ for eternity. All other religions and world-views have some untruth and fall short of the glory of God. You have no proof for your religion of antichrist, yet you believe it anyway. Furthermore, you can't disprove the proof of the resurrection of Jesus, proving He is God. Your silence is proof enough, for how can you disprove it?

Try to see if you can find a naturalistic explanation for His resurrection that fits the data. If you can't, realize He is God and salvation for the sinner is through Him. The only loop you will get yourself spinning around in is one where you don't conscientiously examine the proof of His resurrection to see if you can disprove it or not.

I don't know anybody that believes the easter bunny is real, not even any children, but you know a million of them? It would seem more likely that you are lying. Even if you did personally know a million people believed the easter bunny, what evidence do they have? For it is just belief, but the multiple eyewitness testimony in various group settings is seeing Jesus resurrected just like He said He would.

I don't think you treat people as you like to be treated in your religion you want to start, because I have presented several double standards that you have. And because you haven't seen that video debate between William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens. You had me spend an hour and a half of that mindless debate between a pro-*** gibberish babble Word of Faith Pentecostal and an atheist who confuses what true Christianity is with false Christianity in virtually every sentence, even though he is warned not to for the purpose of the debate. The video you said I wasn't going to watch for you. Plus, you haven't found any naturalistic explanation to explain away the resurrection appearances that most skeptical scholars concede the Apostles believed themselves they had seen Jesus resurrected. And you haven't found a way to disprove the fact nature can't cause itself, since all things in nature have a cause. So why do you shut your mind down to this evidence, are unable to counter it and produce no evidence for your faith? Yet, you still believe what you do? How is that logical?

Just asking you some questions to get you to think for yourself instead of Satan doing the thinking for you.

Just as the easter bunny is man-made, so is atheism or agnosticism or any other religion for that matter except the One True Religion in Christ Jesus.

[Churchwork]

I praise thee, Troy...for thine is the true word of God. Thou art God's chosen one to speak for him. For surely His thoughts must be explained for us poor misguided sinners who see not what You see, Troy the all knowing.

You're expressing your vague hostility. I get that. I am not aware of any Christians who disagree with me by what I am saying to you. And where two or three are gathered in His name, there is the Church in agreement. Amen.

All others who speak for Him are false as You have explained, Troy.

That's called the sin of bearing false witness. Where did I say I am the only Christian on the planet that has the Holy Spirit to receive revelations from God? You're embarrassing yourself with mindless accusations.

Please go forth to Rev Sharpton and Benny Hinn and spake unto them your dismissal of them so they knoweth that they are wrong.

Perhaps I will, for the proof was given the uncreated exists and there are no verses promoting homosexuality, Farrakhan behavior and affiliation, gibberish babble means tongues, etc. Since you can not make your case or disprove the evidence in the previous threads given, what have you got?

I still think that the Easter Bunny has more credibility.

You would. But you have no reason to compare to the reasoning I gave you. Besides, where doe the easter bunny even claim to be uncreated and why is the easter bunny if he is God so selfish not to redeem us back to Him by paying the penalty for sin or coming in our likeness?

How did you like my King James english? Pretty good huh? Do you speak in tongues? I'd really like to hear that. It would be good on UTube (or Just 4 Laughs)

Regards,
Ken

I don't know another language, no. Do you see how you make the same mistake Christopher Hitchens does? Ask yourself is it logical to accuse Christianity by bearing false witness? Christians don't believe in gibberish babble. But there are 500 million Pentecostals that do. This is a cult of sorts and goes back to a second century cult called Montanism that then picked up again in spades during the 20th century. Do you see how Satan whom you follow is always trying to confuse God's kingdom with his? There is nothing new under the sun.

I believe in the open Bible, that is to say, KJV, RSV, ASV, etc. I don't believe in King James onlyism. You should know that, for it is one of the questions in your profile.

It's all a joke to you, but will it still be a joke when you spend an eternity in Hell for calling Jesus a liar and the Apostles liars? You're a bad guy: a sinner who does not want to be saved. Now you know why God created Hell. How sad for you.

[Churchwork]

After further apathetic comments from Ken (which I have not posted), I responded with...

You're shutting your mind down. Sin loves the pleasures of the world, and if it doesn't get fed it goes elsewhere. It can't find peace in Christ because it is antichrist, so it looks to stuff outside self for gratification and to bolster the self life. Hope this helps you know yourself better. May you one day give your life to Christ, for nothing is better. And nothing is worse than Hell where you are going. My prayers go out to you. Just realize at the end of the day you had no basis for what you believe in and you could not overturn the evidence that was given you. In fact, that is a testify to God in Christ and salvation is through Him. Praise the Lord! Amen.

This being our last correspondence after saying this, Ken replied,

Amen

Praise the Lord!

Ken, if you ever read through this thread again, I highly encourage you to watch this (Jesus Christ: Liar? Lunatic? Legend? or God?), http://www.johnankerberg.org/catalog/AP.html

First watch Program 6.

Program 6: Dr. John Warwick Montgomery answers the person who says: "Listen, I don't believe that there is any evidence that even suggests that God exists. But I'm not an `ornery' atheist, I'm an `ordinary' atheist who is open to hearing the evidence