Jumping from one False Faith to the Next: from Morminism to Calvinism

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11-04-2009, 04:11 AM
Churchwork

Jumping from one False Faith to the Next: from Morminism to Calvinism

Re: Andreas http://www.youtube.com/user/testskriftene#p/u

Quote:

Originally Posted by testskriftene

I am a calvinist, and I repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated. God commands men to repent and believe, and the Holy Spirit does the work in men. And the Holy Spirit gave me new life and a new birth, He regenerated me. I continue to repent and believe to the end, because I was given to the Son, and the Son will raise me up on the last day.

I know deep down in my heart and see it around me in this world - that total depravity is real. No one seeks after the true and living God - because they hate him - they are from birth enemies of God, naturally hating God. Thank God that He saved me and changed me, and continues to change me!

If you were Totally depraved, thus Totally unable to receive God unless God irresistibly made you to repent and believe to be regenerated, how is this really so different from your Mormon upbringing? Try to see what I see.

In the pre-existence taught by Mormonism some spirits were formed to be blacks and could never do anything more than at best serve in the Celestial kingdom.

Likewise in Calvinism, the god of Calvinism irresistibly selects some, giving them repentance and faith to be regenerated without the free will choice in the matter. And billions more are from birth irresistibly predestinated for Hell without any opportunity for salvation.

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Based on you comment: "If there ever was a Calvinist that was born-again, it would be you." - I assume that you dont know any other calvinists, or have heard their testimony of how Christ has saved them....

I never said, "If there ever was a Calvinist that was born-again, it would be you." Why put words in my mouth? Of coure I have heard the false testimony of Calvinists and know many of them to know they are not saved, since they refuse to give their lives to Christ to be regenerated. I know for a fact James White and Paul Washer are not born-again. The Holy Spirit told me so and confirmed it in the word of God.

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You put very much emphasis on "Calvinists are unwilling to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated". - please, If one calvinist have said it - dont label all calvinists it, or calvinism for that mater.

It doesn't matter where in the irresistible department you place the imposition, whether at the repentance stage or the faith stage or regeneration stage, in all cases, Calvinism is false; that is to say, Total depravity is false which brings one into a false salvation, because your god doesn't give you the choice since if you are Totally depraved, nobody believes and thus, the god of Calvinism has to irresistibly give this alleged salvation to some and deny it to others even any opportunity for salvation.

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Its like me saying that you believe that you have to do the work of repenting and believing before you are saved - its a work - and therefore you have a works based salvation.. you see how stupid that it?

You said above that you "repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated," but to you this repentance would be a work if you had the choice to be able to obtain this gift of repentance, so you being a Calvinist must believe this repentance you say you have was irresistibly imposed on you without your choice in the matter to refuse or accept it.

There are two glaring problems.

1) Your assumption you repented because it was irresistibly imposed on you is nonetheless an assumption, for true repentance is a free gift anyone can obtain, otherwise God would be a liar for "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3.9).

Do you see your doublestandard? You are allowed to assume you were irresistibly made to repent, but Christians were not allowed to freely obtain the gift of repentance for you accuse them of works then?

Why then wouldn't your assuming be a works? It's just like Mormonism assuming Joseph Smith was right though you can't back it up.

No! Obtaining the gift of repentance and faith by coming to God with an honest heart is a free offering to us all to obtain so that God provides sufficient grace for all.

2) Calvinists are not born again, because they refuse to receive this gift of repentance since they pridefully assume it was irresistibly imposed on them and not sufficiently provided for all to have the opportunity to obtain.

But does God offer us salvation when He says "come unto me" (Matt. 11.28) because we have free-will: "whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22.17)? Are faith and works contrasted as opposites? "By grace are ye saved, through faith;...not of works" (Eph. 2.8-9); "But to him that worketh not, but believeth..." (Rom. 4.5). Christ repeatedly gave such invitations as "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11.28), and "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink" (John 7.37).

This is faith full of repentance, not a works. You are accusing the brethren of works when God contrasts repentance and faith from works.

"Everyone that thirsteth, come ye to the waters.... Let the wicked forsake his ways, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon" (Is. 55.1,7).

If all should come to repentance but God only irresistibly imposes repentance on some, but not others, then isn't the god of Calvinism evil?

Very simply, you have confused our depravity, propensity to sin and willfulness with the idol of Total depravity, Total inability and necessity.

Do you see that? In other words, you did not give your life to Christ authentically, because you preferred a god who does not provide sufficient grace to all to have the opportunity for repentance, but irresistibly imposes repentance on some and passes over (preterition) billions from birth.

As Dave Hunt says, What Love is This?
11-04-2009, 07:35 PM
Churchwork

Quote:

Originally Posted by testskriftene

First, I am Andreas - I am not the guy in the video I upload. I come from Norway - but just upload the show on youtube - because I have been called to witness to mormons.... And one way is to upload the show for the world.

Thanks for letting me know. My concern for you is that you are witnessing to Mormons to draw them into another cult which is Calvinism.

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Second. My Christian brother in Christ, Shawn, is not a calvinist. Shawn is the guy you see in my videos. Shawn was mormon for 40 years - but Jesus saved him.

Shawn McCraney has some weird teachings. He teaches non-OSAS and Calvinism which is a contradiction in terms. Obviously, he is very confused. Just search for his name on these forums and you will gater such quotes from him exposing him.

http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...shawn+mccraney

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I have always been christian. It is lately that God has moved my heart and opened my eyes to see biblical truth. That I do not deserve anything - that ALL GLORY and ALL PRAISE goes to God for saving me - Nothing to rely upon from my side.

You have never been a Christian. You're a Calvinist. By your own volition you chose to assume you were made to repent irresistibly and your god passes over billions giving them no opportunity for salvation. That would be an evil god, not God of the Bible. You erect an idol between yourself and God you call Total depravity that prevents you from genuinely repenting and believing in Christ.

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Third. In my opinion, calvinistic teaching does not bring pride along with it - because you realise that you dont deserve to be where you are at all, it is all from God, and the supernatural work of God - not ones own glory at all.

There is pride in Calvinism because you assumed you are selected irresistibly not having had the choice in the matter and self-exalt yourself over others you think your god passes over, destined to Hell from birth. Hitler did the same thing to the Jews; this is same mentality John Calvin had as the murderous protestant pope of Geneva. Hitler could not achieved what he did without the foundation of Calvinism set before him to claim the Aryan race are irresistibly selected and this gives glory to your god passing over billions.

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Like I said earlier - you put so much emphasis on rebirth before repentance and belief, vs your own beliefe that you need to repent and believe, then you can be born again.....

I put emphasis on rebirth before repentance and belief!? No! 99+% of Calvinists will say they were irresistibly regenerated causing them to repent and believe in their god. This is not true repentance and faith. I am just reporting to you what Calvinists almost always tell me. I believe rebirth (born-again, new birth) takes place after repenting and believing in Christ to be regenerated just as the Bible teaches: repent ye and therefore, be converted. He doesn't irresistibly force you to repent nor deny others the opportunity to repent. Stop believing that lie of lies.

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what does it matter to you what people think comes first?

If you don't receive Christ into your life but instead just assume you were selected without having had to repent and believe in Christ, then this not a true relationship entered into with Christ Jesus. It is of paramount importance for authenticity.

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All christians - calvinists and arminianists - repent and believe daily - because God has changed them. Dont say that people are not saved because they think different from you.

The reason you and other Calvinists are not saved is because you didn't enter into a true relationship with Jesus Christ, for you assumed you were irresistibly selected with no choice in the matter and exalt yourself over others you think your god provides no opportunity for salvation. It's the Bible that doesn't agree with you. I happen to agree with God's word so by disagreeing with me on this point, you are disagreeing with God's word that I agree with.

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You are actually judging over a issue about what came first, repentance or rebirth.. Do you really want to be that kind of a judge?

He said you must repent and believe in Him, not pompously stand there like you do exalting yourself you were selected and others were not, and there was nothing anybody could do about it. You are not born-again. You still refuse to repent, but assume God forced you to repent. That has never been nor ever will be true repentance and faith unto regeneration.

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Is the issue of what came first, repentance or rebirth a damnable issue? Please, beg God to open your eyes

Yes, because you still refuse to repent, for repentance is not irresistibly imposed nor is it irresistibly denied. Double predestination is a lie. May you give your life to Christ one day.

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Why do you call calvinism a cult? That confirms your lack of knowledge and understanding. I have been arminian - so I know the "hate" against it.

It is because I know Calvinism is a cult that shows my understanding in agreement with God's word, true repentance is not assuming you were made to repent, but it is freely received. Arminians are OSAS, so it is not possible to become unsaved afterward or become a Calvinist after once being saved. You were never born-again to begin with. Never were you a true Arminian like Jacob Arminius.

You use to hate Calvinists when you were an Arminian? Arminians love their enemy, so you I guess you weren't an Arminian. You were just a hater. If you were saved as an Arminian but are a Calvinist now, it shows you were never truly an Arminian because you are a Calvinist now; thus, you were never saved.

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all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are born in sin. We are by nature enemies of God.

This is propensity to sin and willfulness, not necessity and Total inability.

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Again - check your facts arminianist. I repent and believe in Christ every day - and have surrendered myself to Him. I dont know any calvinist that has not done that. You are building strawmen.

You sound a bit hateful when you said, "check your facts arminiast"! I have never met a Calvinist who repented and believed in Christ because they either assume they were regenerated (without prior repentance and faith) or assumed they were made to repent which is of course, not true repentance. How could a loving God pass over billions and given them no opportunity for salvation? What love is that? You believe in a Hitler-type God. This is Satan's facsimile, showing himself to be like an angel of light in your life which has brought you into a baptism of the evil spirit under Satanic grace. Satan is trying to simulate God's redemptive design. I think these words capture quite well the essence of what you are suffering due to your own negligence.

You've built a strawman for yourself by your Total depravity idolatry. You are going to Hell. Jesus said you are "condemned already" (John 3.18) because you refuse to receive the gift of repentance and faith freely from wooing of the Holy Spirit.

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What do you believe? Do you have to choose and do any work to be saved? Do you have to maintain your salvation?

I gave my life to the God who keeps, humbly accepting I can't keep myself. The Bible says those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28).

You really don't know if you are saved or not because it wasn't your choice you assumed, for you admit you were irresistibly made to repent; therefore, you work for your salvation and hope it works out in the end. Very sad.

"Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2.9). We are "justified by faith in Christ, and not by works: for by works shall no flesh be justified" (Gal. 2.16).

"Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel'" (Mark 1.15) "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3.19).

You still refuse to repent and believe in Christ, for repentance is never given irresistibly. You can freely obtain this gift.

Amen.
11-11-2009, 06:09 AM
Churchwork

Calvinism is all Just a Charade - Pretentious to the Last Drop

Quote:

Originally Posted by testskriftene

I dont have pride at all. In my belief, only non-calvinists can have pride - because they chose God. Its impossible for me to have pride when I see that it is nothing of what I have done or what is in me that God saved me.... By the grace of God I repented, by the grace of God, I believed.

If you found out that the Bible teaches what the calvinists stands for (not hypercalvinists)... would you accept it? Or would you stop believing in God?

I realize you claim your god is unable to give you free-choice and that is one of the ways he lacks compared to God of the Bible, but I also notice a contradiction in your view which is hard for you to shake. You profess no choice on your part yet it was your choice to assume you were regenerated irresistibly without having had to repent and believe in Christ.

I have no respect for people who doubletalk to me like that. God doesn't do it, nor should you. And I suppose you wouldn't like it when people treated you that way either. Your pride over others you think were from birth made for Hell is grotesque like Hitler treated the Jews from birth for the gas chambers without any recourse at all either.

You keep claiming there was nothing in you that saved you, but your willful assumption you were regenerated is all you and nothing but you doing it. God does the saving. It is His doing-all of Him. This is not mutually exclusive of you being given a choice. Arminians claim nothing of ourselves saves us, so when we received God by faith, it is not from us but the image of God in which He made us. Sadly, Calvinists think we are no longer made in His image due to the fall to put on display their idol of Total depravity. You can help an old lady across the street but you can't believe in what Jesus did for you? Are you bipolar?

This is a crucial point of understanding for the Calvinist to realize that God is the source for Christians, but He doesn't have to be forced on anyone. That's no way to start a relationship. A free gift is not smashed into someone. It can be refused. True repentance is not forced, but you are given the choice to obtain it if you were willing to come to God with an honest heart. All Calvinism is wrong for all Calvinism erects the idol of Totally depravity for which you can find no verses to support. Neither can I. Verses where you have to insert the idea into the text don't count. Try again if you dare.

Since I have read the Bible thoroughly, I know it teaches nothing that agrees with Calvinism. If I found out there was something in it that taught Calvinism, then I would have a problem. While the verses only ever teach OSAS Arminian, to come across a verse which makes itself interpretable no other way than your way, I could only conclude a scribal error. But praise the Lord there are no such verses! God remains intact. The overwhelming reponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt is a powerful testimony.

You should ask yourself that question. If God doesn't have a secret will that conflicts with a revealed will, or you can't find anything that teaches Total depravity with absolute certainty, or that God doesn't irresistibly impose salvation, or doesn't send people to Hell from birth without any grace whatsoever to have the opportunity for salvation, what should you do? Would you repent of Calvinism and give your life to Christ?

Calvinism is a very naive and self-centered view of reality. At its core, it really is no more complicated than someone moving some chess pieces on a chess board. Surely God is not that dull! Man tries to bring God down to his level. How foolish!

One of the most dishonest things I see is when Calvinists give their gospel and claim God wants them to deliver the gospel to souls even though their god gives them no choice in the mater. What a charade!. They are going to Hell and no amount of preaching could convince them otherwise. It's really all just a pretentious show how Calvinists come across in daily life. You're fake! At the very least realize this is how Christians perceive you.
03-01-2011, 11:30 AM
Parture

Jumping From One False Faith to the Next - From Morminism to Calvinism

re: testskriftene @ Youtube

Quote:

Originally Posted by testskriftene

I repent and believe in Christ daily.... where does that set me? Your argumentation about what comes first is really nitpicking... Do you really believe that reformed people dont repent and believe? You are wrong. I am saved. I know that. Because I repent and believe daily and know that I only can trust in what Jesus did on the cross for me for salvation....

I know you are not saved and you admit it. You never repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated nor is anything about Calvinism reforming. It's a false teaching and a false way of coming to Christ so how is that a reform? What needs to be reformed other than justification by faith since that was the main problem in Luther's day.

You admit that you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated; therefore, you are going to Hell. God only saves those who genuinely receive Him as He is. You say it is nitpicking but Jesus says, "unless you believe that I am who I say I am, you will die in your sins" (John 8.24).

Why is it that not everyone who says they trust in Christ are not saved? Would it not be because they, in fact, worship a false Christ? They take on a Jesus who is not Jesus at all. It is not that you have to do more, but simply not worship the false Christ you do what you deem to be God where there was no repentance like John the Baptist and faith unto Jesus prior to being regenerated. I think Christians can sense that exalted pride in you (i.e. the Calvinist) which is very unattractive. You have erected an idol that prevents you from giving your life Christ by rejecting the God of the Bible who provides ample grace to us all to have the choice--something your God is not just unwilling but unable to do. God is so much bigger than your god; actually, your god is downright evil, for think about it, if we behaved the way your God does, we would be sinning horribly. How can God's standards be less than our own? Since you keep avoiding this problem of your false faith, it is clear your conscience is seared like a hot iron.

Jesus said, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not. That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am who I say I am, you will die in your sins" (John 8.23,24). Only God can atone for sins. Only the God who provides sufficient grace to all to have the choice can truly atone for sins. Unless you believe in this God you will go to Hell! "Repent ye therefore, and be converted [regenerated], that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3.19). Who is to do this? You. "Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendants might live!" (Deut. 30.19) "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men" (Tit. 2.11). Now "the Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3.9). If all should come to repentance then why reject the God who provides sufficient grace to all to have the choice (and able to come to repentance), otherwise it is not their fault if they do not come to Christ? You worship a false Christ if you reject this God of sufficient grace to all and claim people are Totally depraved so you pride yourself on the lie you were irresistibly selected and therefore, did not genuinely come to the cross as a helpless sinner to be regenerated. Because you don't want to repent and believe in the true Jesus to be regenerated, you will remain unsaved.

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In what order I believe that being born again happens should not exclude someone from salvation like you do..... I dont know why you attack christians this hard and say they are children of satan for thinking that Gods word says being born again happens prior to repentance and faith... I know that James White and Matt Slick do repent and believe in Christ alone for salvation..... just listen to James Whites debates with muslims.. and watch the videos of Matt Slick that you have not seen yet...

Your attacks and arguments are really weak... + you believe you know when the tribulation is.... ouch. Where in the Bible do you take that from? Nowhere.

So. Where do you have your fellowship?

You exclude yourself from salvation because you really do refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated, admitting it, and worship a false Christ who doesn't provide sufficient grace for all. Jesus says, "unless you believe that I am who I say I am, you will die in your sins" (John 8.24). You keep saying Nah, but Jesus keeps saying, Ya.

What you fail to understand is God is evil if He doesn't provide sufficient grace to all to have the choice. Think how evil and demonic it would be that God would send people to Hell for being born into sin without giving them any grace to have any opportunity to be saved. What love is that? What you worship is Satanic. You would go to jail for letting someone perish when you could have helped them. This is called negligent homicide.

The other important factor you overlook is that God is relational. He is not a God of robots. He is God of sovereign free-willed beings whom He gives a choice to, having supplied them with abundant grace to be able to respond. This is something your god can't do. Your god is pathetic. Both James White an Matt Slick will admit to you freely of their own free will they never repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated, thus showing they worship a false Christ. Yes, it is Satanic. And selfish. They are too afraid to give up control of their flesh, to give their lives to Christ. It's really sad that that is the way they want to be. The sickness is that though it is easy to disprove other faiths false, they lead a person from one false faith to another.

I am glad you weren't able to overturn any of the arguments in the video and the many verses given. Regarding the return of Christ, Matt. 24.33 says we can know right at the door, and Matt. 24.42 doesn't say we can't know the day, we just can't know the hour. This agrees with Joel's prophecy (2.31) and Rev. 6.12 which are the signs right before the Tribulation starts. Why reject God's word? Study the Total Lunar Tetrad. It's time to wake up!

http://biblocality.com/forums/list.p...7-2015-to-2022

Just as those cult members of Mormonism whom you were a member of are unsaved so were you unsaved whom you were part of when you were growing up as you said. And you have done the very thing you were not suppose to do, jump from one false faith to the next, still remaining unsaved and going to Hell.

http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...=testskriftene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORIUvigqLiw
03-02-2011, 10:30 AM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by testskriftene

The response only shows that you do not know what you are talking about - and that you dont research facts before you judge people. This is a sign that either (or both):
1. You are mislead and are easily mislead.
2. You easily misunderstand people.

Don't you have to prove your allegation?

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This is not opinion. This is facts, because you tell a lie in your respons, and do not have the facts on the table. You take one issue that you can twist and twist it, not knowing it really means something else - but as 1. and 2. says.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORMON. I AM NOT AN EX-MORMON.

But you jump to conclusions - showing 1. and 2. to be true

You said you grew up in Mormonism. Try not to misinterpret what I said. Even though you don't realize it, that's why you place Shawn McCraney's video as your main video because you are seeking his help to increase the distance from your upbringing. But in so doing you are jumping from one cult to the next into Calvinism as McCraney is a Calvinist but also holds onto the non-OSAS teaching of Mormonism and the Roman Church. Much confusion in his heart and yours!

http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...shawn+mccraney

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God Almighty, there is no God beside, before or after Him, He is Holy, He created the heavens and the earth. He cannot tolerate sin. He cannot be with sin. He has to punish sin.it would matter more if you lied to your collega or in a court of law.. think about that you have sinned, railed and hatet a Holy God, the creator of all things! If someone murdered your family, and the guy stood infront of a judge and the judge said that "I will let this man go, because I am good" - you would be on the news saying that the judge is corrupt and more evil than the men he sets free and you would go to congress... so God need to be just - and punish evil.

God is not just sending a child to Hell just because they were born into sin; nor is God just by irresistibly saving anyone against their will, not giving them the choice.

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Have you lied? What does that make you? A liar. Have you ever stolen anything? What does that make you? A thief. Have you ever looked at anyone with lust? Jesus said that whosoever looks at someone with lust has comited adultery in their heart, so you are an adulterer at heart... Have you ever coveted? What does that make you? Have you ever strongly disliked or hated anyone? Then you have murdered with your heart. Remember, God sees you as you are, you are naked in front of Him, He knows everything about you. And God hates sin. We have only looked at some of the 10 commandments. God does not only see your sin, the actual crime against Him, but He also sees the motive. You will stand before God and give an account for all the things you have done and why - there is no chance of lying then - He knows everything! As you can see, you are evil in Gods eyes. You have broken Gods law and railed against Him and hated Him and the things God love. God has to punish you with everlasting hell, it is everlasting, because you have sinned against an everlasting God. God cannot justify the wicked... because that would make him wicked.

God hates Calvinism, because it misrepresents His very nature and character. You worship a false Christ. "Unless you believe that I am who I say I am, you will die in your sins" (John 8.24). When you come before Jesus, He will say to you, you never received me when you claimed you were irresistibly regenerated, will you repent now?" You'll respond, "No! I do not know you." Then Jesus casts you into Hell for all eternity.

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Jesus, God in flesh came down, took upon himself a body of flesh, and took the sins of the world upon himself. He went up to the cross and took your punishment and suffered death on the cross. That was not the worst thing, Jesus had to take the WRATH and hatred of God - so God crushed Him. Jesus took the cup of wrath from Gods hand and drank it up. After he had been crushed, he said "It is finished". Jesus resurrected 3 days later. Peter saw his hands and said "My lord and my God". He was also seen by more than 500 people. This way, God can justify you, by having a punishment for the sins you have commited. God is just and the justifier.

Yet you reject this very God because Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. God is pleading with you, giving you the choice, but you maim His very character and nature, a God so loving He died for all. This is how I know you are going to Hell.

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While you have read this - has God so moved in your heart that the sin you once loved you now hate, and the God you hated, you desire?

Repent and believe the gospel. Pray to God. Praise Him and His Name. Seek His face and Glory. Get to know God! Salvation is a gift from God, and you canot earn your way to live with God when you die, it is by grace alone trough faith alone in Christ alone, as told in the Bible alone. Soli deo gloria... I hope you see this some day, that it is all about grace that a believer can live with God. God saving sinners and adopting them, so that they will serve Him for eternity before His throne...

I was saved over 10 years ago. Back then I had the new birth experience. Since salvation is a gift of God it can be freely received or freely rejected. It is imposed on no one. Moreover, it is duplicitous to call someone to repentance when your god denies the ability and opportunity to them and only irresistibly regenerates. Do you see your double mindedness that is so obvious to Christians? You try to earn your way to salvation in two ways: 1) assuming you were irresistibly selected; 2) the reason you work so hard for your salvation, persevering, is because you really don't know if you are saved or not because it was never your choice, according to you, in Calvinism.

Since I already received Christ, why would I need to "see this" (faith alone, grace alone) one day? It is an accomplished fact already in my heart as I bear my cross daily with the Lord in His perfect righteousness. What you deem to be faith in Christ and the grace of God is not true faith or grace at all, for true faith is afforded the choice and true grace is sufficient for all; so, since you reject both these two teachings in God's word, you remain unsaved.

Grace is not what you purport to be irresistibly made to be elect. Election is conditional. My prayer is one day you give your life to Christ, because you have never been born-again.

You're priding yourself on the false idea you were irresistibly selected to self-exalt yourself over those from your Mormon upbringing. You've sought the help of other false Christians such as Shawn McCraney, also an ex-Mormon, who is the only non-OSASer Calvinist that I know of which is bizarre to say the least, since the fifth point of Calvinists is perseverance.

Hope this helps.

p.s. John Piper is unsaved and going to Hell for he worships a false Christ. He will never repent.
03-03-2011, 06:38 AM
Parture

Quote:

Originally Posted by testskriftene

Once again - you proved yourself to not know the things you talk about. And it shows that you jump to conclusions to fast, and I cant discuss with you because you are easily mislead and misunderstand others. As I said and repeat (some of these, you have gotten into your brain).

I was never mormon. Shawn was mormon. Shawn is an exmormon. Shawn is not a calvinist not a non-OSAS calvinist or what ever that is. I am more a monergist - not a calvinist, (conditions are different in USA). I am a Lutheran (not a american liberal one)

Once again, you are misunderstanding what I said. I was simply agreeing with you that you grew up in Mormonism. To what extent you thought you were Mormon or not makes no difference for the sake of our discussion. The point being, it heavily influenced your thinking which is why you hold Shawn McCraney, the ex-Mormon, in such high regard, yet he carries with him the same false teaching of non-OSAS that Mormons held to, and he tries to defend Calvinism as well. He is not cognizant of the fact that salvation is OSAS Arminian, not non-OSAS nor Calvinistic. These are no small problems, for he is contradicting himself. Study the things he says to see how wrong he is,

http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...Shawn+McCraney

That's my reaction too: a "non-OSAS Calvinist"!?! Yet that is what Shawn teaches. Go over the quotes provided. Monergism is Calvinism. Lutherans are not Christians. They are non-OSAS and Calvinistic (Luther was a Calvinist). Sorta like the confusion of Methodists: half are Calvinists and the other half are Wesleyian non-OSASers. Satan is having a heyday with this confusion and you are his pawn. Lutherans like the Roman Church believe a person can lose salvation. Since both Calvinism and non-OSAS are false, then you are a false because you associate yourself with those who teach these false things. You're guilty by association. And of course, you are outspokenly Calvinist.

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And your writing in your forum thing shows that you are blind - saying that certain people that are calvinist does not repent and believe in Jesus... That is ludacris. You have obviousely not heard them preach. I am sorry for keeping up this "debate" we have had. Forgive me. It has not been biblical, since it is useless and not for any good. Hope you can forgive me for trying to show you what the Bible teaches to be true, when its only God that can open your eyes to the truth.

Hope you have a great life, and the God opens your eyes. I will pray for you.

Calvinism is ludicrous. Think how evil it is to worship a god who doesn't provide sufficient grace to all to have the choice and sends children to Hell for no other reason than they were born into sin which is not their fault. You and Shawn McCraney are evil. When you listen to him preach you will know what I said is true if you listen with an honest heart.

Since you can't find any verses in the Bible to support Calvinism or non-OSAS realize you are living a lie. I forgive you for your obstinacy, for you know not what you do. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit I will have to rebuke your prayers, because they come from the evil spirit in your innerman.

My prayers go out to you that you yet may one day repent to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior and then, and only then, will you be regenerated (born-again).

Praise the Lord! Amen.
03-03-2011, 12:51 PM
Parture

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Originally Posted by testskriftene

Once again. You are wrong. Both theologically and in facts about the other part you are talking to... and it shows me that you dont truly check the facts about the person you are talking to or his beliefs... because you have been told by your leaders that all persons that dont hold their (you leaders) view is like "this and this" maybe?

You should question your denomination which holds to both non-OSAS and Calvinism like the Methodists which are half non-OSASers and half Calvinists. Why be associated with such a false system? Too bad they weren't Christians - OSAS Arminians.

I've talked to Shawn McCraney and he does not say he erred in claiming he believed in non-OSAS and Calvinism, but he shut his mind down thereafter, not dealing with this obvious problem of his faith. He thinks his special brand of non-OSAS Calvinism is unique. It's not really unique as it is strange and contradictory!

I'm an Apostle so I don't have a leader but Jesus Himself. Actually all Christians are a royal priesthood having direct communion with God by the Holy Spirit. Jesus told me you and Shawn McCraney are not saved, because you are Calvinists. You're not a Christian because you are a Calvinist, that is, you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated and refuse to give your life to the God who provides sufficient grace for all to have the choice.

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I have experienced amazing grace. As God said in 1. John. "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God"... All my sins are washed away, and I repent and believe in Jesus everyday. And I know that He is my Lord and saviour, and your judgements about me mean squatt.

You have proven yourself to be unable to discuss.. and I wont waste my time discussing with you, because you are a liar, and cant get anything into your head - maybe your leaders in your church have done that to you?

I will pray for you that God opens your eyes and that you stop spending time on your computer for useless stuff. Do you go to church sometime? Spend your time in Biblestudy with other people? Hope you do.

You worship a false Christ, because the god you describe is horrific, certainly not God of the Bible. Shutting your mind down as you do is quite useless. May you one day give your life to the true Jesus and stop worshiping a false Christ and wasting your time living a lie.

In the name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit I reject and refuse any prayers from you because I know it is the evil spirit indwelling in you. I study the Bible every day and go to church quite often. Why does that offend you?