Negative Inference Fallacy Between Dyring for All and Dying for Some

[Churchwork]

Negative Inference Fallacy says, "The proof of a proposition does not disprove its converse."

Christ dying for a limited number doesn't mean Jesus didn't die for all.

If you say you love your wife does that mean your love is limited only to your wife? Of course not.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2.20).

Does this mean nobody is saved except Paul? Of course not. Otherwise we would be committing negative inference fallacy.

"John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" (John 1.29).

There are passages that speak of the world and all, and other passages for the church. They are not mutually exclusive.

Calvinists read "all" without distinction, meaning all kinds of people rather than "all" without exception as Christians do.

Never do we find in the Bible "the world" associated with a limited number. Also, you can't always use "all" in the same sense always. There is flexibility with words.

'I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said" (1 Cor. 15.3).

Paul preached unto the Corinthians the gospel that Jesus died for them. Was everyone in Corinth saved? No. Of course not. Verse 11 says, "So it makes no difference whether I preach or they preach, for we all preach the same message you have already believed."

If Paul is preaching the gospel to believe, it would be a lie because in Calvinism they would never believe because God never gave them the human ability to do so. God is not a deceiver.

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Is. 53.6).

All at the start of the sentence and the end of the sentence is a rhetorical device for emphasis of "all."

The first "all" has everyone sinned? Is everyone born into sin? Yes. If you want to hang with a parallel you would have to say the second "all" is all without exception, not without distinction.

7 times Isaiah 53 says "our" just as Paul said "our" sins in 1 Cor. 15.

[Churchwork]

Calvinists will say if Jesus died for all then all would be saved? Not so fast. The two main errors arise from this thinking.

1) The Bible says not everyone is saved.

2) it is confusing the extent of the atonement with the application of the atonement. When Jesus died on the cross did it save anyone? Not until a person repents and believes in Jesus does it apply to them. Is anyone saved apart from repenting and believing on Christ? No. "2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph. 2.2,3). The cross did not save them before they believed. Not until they believed could they receive the application of the blood and the cross of Christ that was extended to them. The application of grace would be owed if people were saved at the cross irresistibly. Calvinists turn the legal moral debt at the cross with a commercial pecuniary debt. In other words, it is like paying the bill at a restaurant. The restaurant doesn't care who pays it. When Jesus pays the moral penalty on the cross it removes Him from His legal obligation to send people to Hell, as long as they accept what He did for them. This commercialism of Calvinism is morally repugnant.

Negative Implications of All This

1) If atonement was not available to the non-elect then it I didn't matter if Jesus died on the cross or not. Their fate would be the same. They are unsavable.

2) If Jesus did not die for all, what are non-believers guilty of rejecting? How can they reject that which doesn't exist for them? If someone comes up to them and says Jesus died for them it is false because in this case he didn't die for them. It is not only false but cruel and prevaricating (to speak falsely or misleadingly; deliberately misstate or create an incorrect impression; lie).

3) The diminishing of God's universal saving will. "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2.4). "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3.9). How can God want all to be saved and yet not give all the means to be saved?

4) The genuine gospel offer. Everyone is savable. "19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" (2 Cor. 5.19,20). How can you be an ambassador in a lie, since the begging on behalf of Christ is false, for they can never efficaciously appropriate the cross for salvation? The integrity of the preach has fallen because he knows no matte how much he begs someone that person was born not to respond to the gospel. In fact God's credibility and integrity are on the line, because He is making an offer that doesn't exist for some people only the elect. It's like offering someone to dinner, and there is no chair, no plate and no food. This is disingenuous for us then it is disingenuous for God.

5) Limited Atonement can't make the bold proclamation. Christ died for my sins. This statement can't be made for other people who don't believe. If you ask a non-believer if Jesus died for their sins, what are they suppose to say? No, since I don't believe. Or, Yes if I give my life to Christ one day. They can't say for sure whether Jesus died for them. Where is the love of God, confidence and assuredness that God wants you to be saved? as we want our fellow man to be saved. It hurts mission work, because the missionary knows he is lying to people telling them God wants them to be save when he knows full well that his god doesn't want them to be saved. What that unempowerd missionary might say is "Maybe, just maybe, Christ died for you." This is not the gospel.

There would be no offer of salvation, for offering nothing is no offer at all. There is no verse in the Bible that says Jesus died only for the elect.

Let's say there a 6 traitors. The king captures them. But the son of the king pays their debt owed and are released on the condition they pledge allegiance to the king. If 3 of them pledge allegiance then 3 will be released. The others remain in prison or Hell. Has the king been unjust? No.

In Calvinism the gospel is just a charade because it doesn't matter if I go to the unsaved or another Christian does, they are nonetheless irresistibly selected.

[Churchwork]

David,

In this video you did, several times you said Calvinists are saved and they are saved even though you also said they have another gospel. This is a contradiction to me because there is only one gospel first delivered unto the saints. Even you admit, though I disagree, nobody taught Calvinism prior to some later century. For example, I don't believe Augustine was born-again. James White is going to Hell and so is Matt J. Slick and R.C. Sproul and John Piper.

So what immediately comes to mind with your liberal ecumenical stance, is are you saved? I have the same problem with Leighton Flowers as well since he holds your similar positions. Others agree with me Calvinists are not saved.

It creates a problem as well because if you affirm someone is saved who clearly is not then you assist in that person in not being saved because the worse thing is to think you are saved when you are not. What do you need to repent of then? What need is there for you to rebuke your false Christ for the true Jesus who saves truly? Satan has done his job.

I believe the reason you take this position is because if you say Calvinists are not saved then you ostracize yourself and reduce your opportunities in life.