Churchwork
06-02-2006, 01:18 AM
For Pretrib Onlyists,
There is the tribulation of the past 20 centuries and the Tribulation of the last week consummation of this age. We can not be assured of escaping tribulation since there are martyrs in Christ that did not escape such tribulations. But Rev. 3.10 says we may escape the time period of the Great Tribulation. Why is this so? It is because parousia begins at the first rapture. First rapture is when the firstfruits of the harvest begin to come in, so those who need not be tested in the time of testing will be received to the throne before the Tribulation starts, while Christians who are not yet ready to be received will pass through the Tribulation like a Noah or the apostles or Elisha. Enoch, Christ and Elijah were raptured before the tribulation of their day. These are types for first rapture.
Luke 21.36 is referring to Christians for its message is moral in nature. The fig tree commences the message regarding Christians (v.29ff). Prior to that refers to the Jews in Luke 21 because it has so many Jewish references that are not found from v.29 foward. The church is a mystery in this dispensation of grace as shown by the secretive seals (Rev. 6); then first rapture takes place at Rev. 7.9 before the trumpets of the Tribulation (7th seal which opens the 7 trumpets).
The disciples in the four Gospels are Jews. It is to them, that is to say, to the Jews, that the Lord exhorts to watch and pray. Since we Christians will be raptured anyway, there is no need for us to be exhorted to watch and pray, so you think. We go to the Epistles for our inspiration. However, the disciples are Christians, and they too are in the church. Are not the disciples called Christians (Acts 11.26; cf. Matt. 28.19)?
Adherents of your view of interpretation do not regard much of the four Gospels and the Acts as written for Gentile believers. C. I. Scofield, for example, maintained that the so-called Sermon on the Mount is exclusively for the Jews. You forget, though, the words in Matthew 28.20 (“teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you” ) and in John 14.26 (“and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you”). You base all your teachings on the words of the apostle Paul, whereas you should remember what Paul himself said in Colossians 3: “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly” (v.16).
You view the work of Christ on earth as fulfilling the ministry towards the circumcised, thus showing a definite Jewish background; and therefore whatever is commanded in the Gospels is not for us Christians but is for the Jews. Let me say in response, however, that the dispensation of Grace also begins with Christ. Please read the following passages: (1) Matthew 11.13-14 and Luke 16.16 - where the phrase “from that time” in Luke means from the time of Christ; (2) Acts 10.36-37 and 13.25-27 - where we see that “the word of this salvation” (13.26) begins to be preached at the time of John the Baptist; (3) Mark 1.1-15 and John 1.1-15 - from which we learn that “the gospel of Jesus Christ” (Mark 1.1) commences with John the Baptist; (4) Luke 4.17-21 - which verses describe the gospel of grace in a number of ways and concludes by recording the Lord Jesus as saying: “Today hath this scripture been fulfilled” (v.21); (5) John 4.23 - wherein the phrase “and now is” indicates that during the dispensation of Grace those who worship God worship Him in spirit and truth (whereas under the dispensation of Law, men apprehended God in the flesh and according to rituals); and (6) John 5.24-25 - which verses tell us that what is included in the phrase “and now is” is the gospel of grace.
Do you see how you teach antinominianism, putting it all on the Jews, so you don't have to watch and pray and be ready, so you can degrade your conscience and remain in sin?
To not be condemned is to be in Christ (John 3.18), but this does not mean there is no consequences for Christians. If you are saved, yet prefer to lie on a bed of fornication, then what will happen?
How are believers to escape all these coming things and to stand before the Son of man? Naturally by being raptured. Death is not a blessing: we do not pray and expect death. The condition here for rapture is to watch and pray. Hence here, not all the regenerated may be raptured AT THE FIRST RAPTURE. Pray always. What to pray for? Pray that we may escape all these things which shall come to pass. “That ye may prevail” (or, “ye may be accounted worthy” AV), It is not a question of grace, but rather a matter of worthiness.
How about worthiness? God cannot receive you to the place where you have no desire to go. You do not wish to be rapture according to readiness due to your overassuming which is puffed-up. Some people may consider heaven as too tasteless a place in which to live as may be indicated by these words: “Lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” (v.34). If a balloon is tied, it cannot ascend.
In sum, Luke 21.36 shatters the arguments of both the your idea and the postrib only interpretation. The second school may still raise other arguments, such as (1) that rapture is not dependent on conduct - yet in reply it should be asked whether anyone thinks a carnal believer lying on a bed of fornication will be raptured? Or (2) that the phrase “all these things” does not refer to the Great Tribulation but to the surfeiting, drunkenness, and cares of this life cited in verse 34. In reply, it should be noted that verse 36 reads, “all these things that shall come to pass" - whereas “surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” pertain to the things which are present now. And therefore, “watch ye” means to not be deceived by such activities so you may be received at the first rapture.
However, do not fret. If you find yourself in the Tribulation because you were not ready to be received at the first rapture (Rev. 12.5), know it is because you need to go through further testing in the time of testing of the Tribulation, even unto martyrdom.
In the poll, I notice nobody says they are unsaved, so therefore the unsaved would be some of those who answered in the poll. But who? Surely universalism is not God's way, not everyone is saved who answered.
So we go to the Bible. The Bible says we shall know them by their fruit. They quote verses saying they are in Christ, but then you ask them about other verses which they alter for the sake of antinomianism so they can remain in sin: e.g. altering Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36. There is your answer. They accept, they say, the substitution of Christ, but reject co-death because such co-death leads to firstfruits and readiness for believers, which is rejected by some. How truly sad. Don't let Satan win like that, with a replicatory work and facsimile of God's design. Many who are about to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, instead receive a Satanic copy which we may refer to as the baptism of the evil spirit.
View Poll Results: Do you believe first rapture is according to readiness?
This poll will close on 23rd January 2020 at 08:34 AM
Yes 32.43% - Votes 12
No 35.14% - Votes 13
I am not premillennial 32.43% - Votes 12
I am not saved 0%
There is the tribulation of the past 20 centuries and the Tribulation of the last week consummation of this age. We can not be assured of escaping tribulation since there are martyrs in Christ that did not escape such tribulations. But Rev. 3.10 says we may escape the time period of the Great Tribulation. Why is this so? It is because parousia begins at the first rapture. First rapture is when the firstfruits of the harvest begin to come in, so those who need not be tested in the time of testing will be received to the throne before the Tribulation starts, while Christians who are not yet ready to be received will pass through the Tribulation like a Noah or the apostles or Elisha. Enoch, Christ and Elijah were raptured before the tribulation of their day. These are types for first rapture.
Luke 21.36 is referring to Christians for its message is moral in nature. The fig tree commences the message regarding Christians (v.29ff). Prior to that refers to the Jews in Luke 21 because it has so many Jewish references that are not found from v.29 foward. The church is a mystery in this dispensation of grace as shown by the secretive seals (Rev. 6); then first rapture takes place at Rev. 7.9 before the trumpets of the Tribulation (7th seal which opens the 7 trumpets).
The disciples in the four Gospels are Jews. It is to them, that is to say, to the Jews, that the Lord exhorts to watch and pray. Since we Christians will be raptured anyway, there is no need for us to be exhorted to watch and pray, so you think. We go to the Epistles for our inspiration. However, the disciples are Christians, and they too are in the church. Are not the disciples called Christians (Acts 11.26; cf. Matt. 28.19)?
Adherents of your view of interpretation do not regard much of the four Gospels and the Acts as written for Gentile believers. C. I. Scofield, for example, maintained that the so-called Sermon on the Mount is exclusively for the Jews. You forget, though, the words in Matthew 28.20 (“teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you” ) and in John 14.26 (“and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you”). You base all your teachings on the words of the apostle Paul, whereas you should remember what Paul himself said in Colossians 3: “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly” (v.16).
You view the work of Christ on earth as fulfilling the ministry towards the circumcised, thus showing a definite Jewish background; and therefore whatever is commanded in the Gospels is not for us Christians but is for the Jews. Let me say in response, however, that the dispensation of Grace also begins with Christ. Please read the following passages: (1) Matthew 11.13-14 and Luke 16.16 - where the phrase “from that time” in Luke means from the time of Christ; (2) Acts 10.36-37 and 13.25-27 - where we see that “the word of this salvation” (13.26) begins to be preached at the time of John the Baptist; (3) Mark 1.1-15 and John 1.1-15 - from which we learn that “the gospel of Jesus Christ” (Mark 1.1) commences with John the Baptist; (4) Luke 4.17-21 - which verses describe the gospel of grace in a number of ways and concludes by recording the Lord Jesus as saying: “Today hath this scripture been fulfilled” (v.21); (5) John 4.23 - wherein the phrase “and now is” indicates that during the dispensation of Grace those who worship God worship Him in spirit and truth (whereas under the dispensation of Law, men apprehended God in the flesh and according to rituals); and (6) John 5.24-25 - which verses tell us that what is included in the phrase “and now is” is the gospel of grace.
Do you see how you teach antinominianism, putting it all on the Jews, so you don't have to watch and pray and be ready, so you can degrade your conscience and remain in sin?
To not be condemned is to be in Christ (John 3.18), but this does not mean there is no consequences for Christians. If you are saved, yet prefer to lie on a bed of fornication, then what will happen?
How are believers to escape all these coming things and to stand before the Son of man? Naturally by being raptured. Death is not a blessing: we do not pray and expect death. The condition here for rapture is to watch and pray. Hence here, not all the regenerated may be raptured AT THE FIRST RAPTURE. Pray always. What to pray for? Pray that we may escape all these things which shall come to pass. “That ye may prevail” (or, “ye may be accounted worthy” AV), It is not a question of grace, but rather a matter of worthiness.
How about worthiness? God cannot receive you to the place where you have no desire to go. You do not wish to be rapture according to readiness due to your overassuming which is puffed-up. Some people may consider heaven as too tasteless a place in which to live as may be indicated by these words: “Lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” (v.34). If a balloon is tied, it cannot ascend.
In sum, Luke 21.36 shatters the arguments of both the your idea and the postrib only interpretation. The second school may still raise other arguments, such as (1) that rapture is not dependent on conduct - yet in reply it should be asked whether anyone thinks a carnal believer lying on a bed of fornication will be raptured? Or (2) that the phrase “all these things” does not refer to the Great Tribulation but to the surfeiting, drunkenness, and cares of this life cited in verse 34. In reply, it should be noted that verse 36 reads, “all these things that shall come to pass" - whereas “surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” pertain to the things which are present now. And therefore, “watch ye” means to not be deceived by such activities so you may be received at the first rapture.
However, do not fret. If you find yourself in the Tribulation because you were not ready to be received at the first rapture (Rev. 12.5), know it is because you need to go through further testing in the time of testing of the Tribulation, even unto martyrdom.
In the poll, I notice nobody says they are unsaved, so therefore the unsaved would be some of those who answered in the poll. But who? Surely universalism is not God's way, not everyone is saved who answered.
So we go to the Bible. The Bible says we shall know them by their fruit. They quote verses saying they are in Christ, but then you ask them about other verses which they alter for the sake of antinomianism so they can remain in sin: e.g. altering Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36. There is your answer. They accept, they say, the substitution of Christ, but reject co-death because such co-death leads to firstfruits and readiness for believers, which is rejected by some. How truly sad. Don't let Satan win like that, with a replicatory work and facsimile of God's design. Many who are about to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, instead receive a Satanic copy which we may refer to as the baptism of the evil spirit.
View Poll Results: Do you believe first rapture is according to readiness?
This poll will close on 23rd January 2020 at 08:34 AM
Yes 32.43% - Votes 12
No 35.14% - Votes 13
I am not premillennial 32.43% - Votes 12
I am not saved 0%