Churchwork
05-19-2006, 01:05 AM
Revelation 12 does not pertain to 70 AD, nor could any show it. What others are referring to about the Jewish people persecuting Christians is not found in the Olivet discourse specifically, because the destruction of the temple is prophesied in Matt. 24.2, "not one stone will be left on top of another!" The Jewish people were most aggressive in persecuting Christians before AD 70 as was Nero. So therefore, we should expect some reference to Jews persecuting Christians before verse 2 to add to the time frame of Matt. 24.4-6 before 70 AD. That is in fact what we find.
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (23.37)
Not "till ye shall say" (v.39) because it is not until Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation will they accept Him. Only then will they bless Him in the millennial kingdom. Each dispensation has a similar conclusion to it: the dispensation of Innocence was concluded by the flood; the dispensation of Human Government, by the confusion of tongues; that of Promise, by the going down to Egypt; that of the Law, by the Babylonian Captivity; and the dispensation of Grace, as we have noted, will be terminated by the Great Tribulation; while that of the Kingdom will be ended by the old heaven and the old earth being consumed by the fire as Satan is released for a short while.
Yes there was 70 AD (Matt. 24.2), and there is a book of Revelations for the future of an abomination (v.15) in similar trial for Israel (Rev. 12), but also for the Church (v.17) left behind after the first rapture (v.5). We can cite many reasons why John wrote the book of Revelation about 95 AD. Here are some of those reasons.
12 EXTERNAL EVIDENCES-EVIDENCES OUTSIDE THE TEXT
1. All the writers of the 1st 3 centuries agree John’s exile was at the latter part of reign of Domitian, last of 12 caesars, therefore written in 95 or 96 AD. I have quotes by various writers.
2. If it was in Nero’s time Revelations has no spiritual value for us for the future so it is not already fulfilled.
3. Teitan can not be the antichrist for he was never referred to as such in those terms in early Christian writers.
4. Iraneus was a pupil of Polycarp who himself was one of John’s pupils.
5. Tertullian said Domitan also cruel like Nero often ceased from his attempts (I have quotes). Banishment (as in John) is his more likely avenue whereas Nero would just put you to death.
6. Clement of Alexandria speaks of a tyrant after whose death John returns from exile, referring to Domitan likely.
7. Eusebius in 3 passages states the banishment of John took place in reign of Domitian and that the time of John’s revelation was in the 14th year reign of Domitan (95 AD).
8. Victorinus of Petau, the earliest extant writer on apocolypse, said John revealed his revelation when he was released from Patmos. 95 AD.
9. Victorinus (martyred in 303 AD) said Domitan was the 6th king reigning during when the Apocalypse was written in reference to the 8th king talked about in Revelations 17.
10.Jerome (4th century) said Revelations written at Patmos was written in the 14th year of Domitan, the second caesar who persecuted Christians.
11. This harmony was ruined by Ephiphanius of Salmis whose testimony is worthless plus its incredible. He was careless and an inaccurate ancient writer. He actually wrote that John at age 90 was released into the reign of Claudius. Claudius was assassinated in 54 AD. If this is true then John would have had to been 33 years older than Jesus Christ in his 63 year when called to apostle.
12. Many other authors also in favor of the Domitian date.
7 INTERNAL EVIDENCES-EVIDENCES IN THE TEXT
1. The state of the 7 churches would have required development of 20 or 30 years far beyond the 5 or 6 years allowed by the Neronic date, beyond the condition of the church in Paul’s time.
2. It is evident persecution was evident throughout Asia Minor at the time (at least one martyr in Pergamum) whereas in Nero’s time it does not extend beyond immediate neighborhood of Rome.
3. Rev 2.14 Ballamites had time to establish themselves in Pergamum.
4. Jezebel had not only risen to influence in Thyatira, but time for repentance had also been given to her (according to Rev. 2.20, 21).
5. Revelations is definitely a book of prophecy (see 1.3, 22.7,18,19).
6. Rationalistic view of preterists does not wash for up to our day the concluding portion of God’s Word still remains prophetic writing concerned future events to come from Revelations 4 on. Even Laodecia is not completed yet. It is neither a book of allegorical history or already fulfilled.
7. Rationalistics attempt to take away this fearful book serving as one of the keenest of the swords of God’s Spirit has been defeated.
The Romans persecuted the saints and this is detailed in the 2nd church period called Smyrna (Rev. 2.8-11) that followed the first church period of Ephesus (2.1-7).
“Be thou faithful unto death”—(1) “Unto death” indicates the possibility of being killed. When the devil discovers that imprisonment fails to achieve its aim he will move a step further, namely, to killing. (2) “Be thou” is cast in the imperative mood, being a command. (3) “Faithful unto death” means that they love not their lives even to death (Rev. 12.11). Such is the limit of the devil’s attack. He cannot do anything further if we are thus faithful.
Christians were martyred in the 2nd church period and will be martyred during the Tribulation. Revelation 6 speaks of two groups in the 5th seal: those under the brazen alter (v.9) who have died in the past 20 centuries, and the rest of their brethren who will die in the Tribulation (v.11). The first group is told to wait ye a little longer (v.11): "should rest yet a little while."
The time-line of heretics bombarding with false doctrine is throughout every century and will intensify in the Laodicean, the last church period (Rev. 3.14-22). Laodicean means "differing opinions."
Before 70 AD we read "For many will come in my name" (Matt. 24.4). Matt. 24.4-6 pertain to the time before 70 AD, 7-14 pertain to the time following 70 AD, and 15-31 pertain to the time of the end.
v.4 The disciples have just asked about the destruction of the temple. This is a matter which deeply arrests their attention. In answering them, the Lord first warns them to be careful lest they be misled. For anyone studying prophecy, the preeminent safeguard which Jesus pronounces here is to “take heed that no man lead you astray".
vv.5-6 By whom will they be in danger of being led astray? (1) By false Christs. In his Wars of the Jews, the renowned Jewish historian Josephus recorded how false Christs and false prophets deceived the Jews by promising them miraculous deliverance. These false Christs were able to deceive the Jews because they had refused to believe in the real Christ. (2) By wars and rumors of wars. After the death of Christ, rumors of wars did spread abroad like wildfire.
We know the Great Tribulation has not yet occurred because 1/3 of the people of earth have not yet died in a great cataclysmic event (Rev. 9.18), nor have we seen the very specifically stated 200 million machine army in the middle east yet (v.16). The Dark Ages pertain instead to the generally speaking 2nd seal. Remember, the 6 seals are the past 20 centuries (they are secretively broken in this mystery age of the church), but the Great Tribulation comes after in the Trumpets. What initiates the Tribulation is the first rapture (7.9), for afterward the 7th seal is broken which opens up the 7 trumpets of the Tribulation.
Revelation 13 has not occurred yet for the mark of the beast has not been forced in people yet, to be able to buy or sell with the implant (v.17). The man has not been revealed yet who bears the number of the beast (v.18). Today, the first beast (v.12) has not been revealed, nor has the 2nd beast (v.11). If it was so the name of the beast could be given, but historicalists do not know the name of these beasts, for they are persons by name as was Nero and Judas. Judas was called the devil, and Neron Kaisar in Aramaic = 666 (v.18). Do you think there is dissension in families now? Just wait to see how families are torn apart by the actions of Antichrist in Tribulation. The 3rd person of the unholy trinity will be the ultimate false prophet.
Matt. 24 reads, "gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (v.14). The end is the Great Tribulation. The European Union will grab power, with its constituent 7 heads and 10 kings with its head in Rome in Revelation 18. Revelation 17 also shows us religious Rome will be the center there too. All of this is explained in Revelation 13.
Revelation 16 gives us more details of the Great Tribulation, particularly the 7th trumpet when the bowls are poured out. For example, those who took the mark of the beast implant will experience terrible sores (v.2). "Blast of heat" (v.9) from nuclear explosions take place: "everyone was burned." Even the "great River Euphrates" will dry up. This is truly Armageddon. It will make WWI and WWII pale in comparison. Finally "the great city of Babylon split into three pieces" (v.19).
Revelation 12 to 19 give the details of Rev. 6 to 11. Revelation 6 outlines the past 20 centuries, while Revelation 8 to 11 give the major points of the Tribulation. Rev. 7 is an interjection between the past 20 centuries and the Tribulation, while Revelation 10 is the interjection between the 6th trumpet and the 7th trumpet wherein the bowls are poured in the last trumpet. Bowls are larger than cups, and it is as if time stands still so much is going on in such a short period of time with such intensity.
The little book opened in Revelation 10 is the same book in Revelation 5. The second half can only be opened in the Tribulation because we are closer to that moment when those things are happening. We won't even known the sign of the Son of until we are in that moment. There will be signs to know we are nearing the season of the first rapture before the Tribulation, but we will not know the sign of the Son of Man stepping down on the mount of olives. It will be supernatural though.
The major signs are Israel returning to her homeland, millions of people receiving the implant under their skin, The European Union becoming the leading global power (even overshadowing China and India). In fact The Union might even extend all the way to include India. Peace in the world from a leader who seemed to perish, who then recovers to become the Antichrist and everyone believes in what he has to offer as the solution.
The sign of the Son of Man we simply cannot say because we are not in the Tribulation yet to know when He will step down on the mount of olives. The Tribulation must begin before we can know such things. When the 2nd half of the little book is opened, then the details of the minor aspects of revelation are made more clear (Rev. 12.1 to 19.21).
Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
This is the future Tribulation. The 1st 4 trumpets only hurt the earth, not the people. The last 3 trumpets, the woes, hurt the people of the earth.
On the matter of plagues and eruptions and so forth, understand that they are not necessarily larger but rather, because there are more people in those regions, they are more noticeable and do far more damage to more people and property. When did the population really start to take off? It was the 19th and 20th century. Christ will probably return this century given the implant is so pervasive already.
The most important question I can think that you should ask is: if you think all these things in Revelation have happened already and the Great Tribulation is behind you as historicalists believe, then when it comes will you be ready for it? Would you not be deceived, and either lose rewards in the kingdom or go to perdition?
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (23.37)
Not "till ye shall say" (v.39) because it is not until Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation will they accept Him. Only then will they bless Him in the millennial kingdom. Each dispensation has a similar conclusion to it: the dispensation of Innocence was concluded by the flood; the dispensation of Human Government, by the confusion of tongues; that of Promise, by the going down to Egypt; that of the Law, by the Babylonian Captivity; and the dispensation of Grace, as we have noted, will be terminated by the Great Tribulation; while that of the Kingdom will be ended by the old heaven and the old earth being consumed by the fire as Satan is released for a short while.
Yes there was 70 AD (Matt. 24.2), and there is a book of Revelations for the future of an abomination (v.15) in similar trial for Israel (Rev. 12), but also for the Church (v.17) left behind after the first rapture (v.5). We can cite many reasons why John wrote the book of Revelation about 95 AD. Here are some of those reasons.
12 EXTERNAL EVIDENCES-EVIDENCES OUTSIDE THE TEXT
1. All the writers of the 1st 3 centuries agree John’s exile was at the latter part of reign of Domitian, last of 12 caesars, therefore written in 95 or 96 AD. I have quotes by various writers.
2. If it was in Nero’s time Revelations has no spiritual value for us for the future so it is not already fulfilled.
3. Teitan can not be the antichrist for he was never referred to as such in those terms in early Christian writers.
4. Iraneus was a pupil of Polycarp who himself was one of John’s pupils.
5. Tertullian said Domitan also cruel like Nero often ceased from his attempts (I have quotes). Banishment (as in John) is his more likely avenue whereas Nero would just put you to death.
6. Clement of Alexandria speaks of a tyrant after whose death John returns from exile, referring to Domitan likely.
7. Eusebius in 3 passages states the banishment of John took place in reign of Domitian and that the time of John’s revelation was in the 14th year reign of Domitan (95 AD).
8. Victorinus of Petau, the earliest extant writer on apocolypse, said John revealed his revelation when he was released from Patmos. 95 AD.
9. Victorinus (martyred in 303 AD) said Domitan was the 6th king reigning during when the Apocalypse was written in reference to the 8th king talked about in Revelations 17.
10.Jerome (4th century) said Revelations written at Patmos was written in the 14th year of Domitan, the second caesar who persecuted Christians.
11. This harmony was ruined by Ephiphanius of Salmis whose testimony is worthless plus its incredible. He was careless and an inaccurate ancient writer. He actually wrote that John at age 90 was released into the reign of Claudius. Claudius was assassinated in 54 AD. If this is true then John would have had to been 33 years older than Jesus Christ in his 63 year when called to apostle.
12. Many other authors also in favor of the Domitian date.
7 INTERNAL EVIDENCES-EVIDENCES IN THE TEXT
1. The state of the 7 churches would have required development of 20 or 30 years far beyond the 5 or 6 years allowed by the Neronic date, beyond the condition of the church in Paul’s time.
2. It is evident persecution was evident throughout Asia Minor at the time (at least one martyr in Pergamum) whereas in Nero’s time it does not extend beyond immediate neighborhood of Rome.
3. Rev 2.14 Ballamites had time to establish themselves in Pergamum.
4. Jezebel had not only risen to influence in Thyatira, but time for repentance had also been given to her (according to Rev. 2.20, 21).
5. Revelations is definitely a book of prophecy (see 1.3, 22.7,18,19).
6. Rationalistic view of preterists does not wash for up to our day the concluding portion of God’s Word still remains prophetic writing concerned future events to come from Revelations 4 on. Even Laodecia is not completed yet. It is neither a book of allegorical history or already fulfilled.
7. Rationalistics attempt to take away this fearful book serving as one of the keenest of the swords of God’s Spirit has been defeated.
The Romans persecuted the saints and this is detailed in the 2nd church period called Smyrna (Rev. 2.8-11) that followed the first church period of Ephesus (2.1-7).
“Be thou faithful unto death”—(1) “Unto death” indicates the possibility of being killed. When the devil discovers that imprisonment fails to achieve its aim he will move a step further, namely, to killing. (2) “Be thou” is cast in the imperative mood, being a command. (3) “Faithful unto death” means that they love not their lives even to death (Rev. 12.11). Such is the limit of the devil’s attack. He cannot do anything further if we are thus faithful.
Christians were martyred in the 2nd church period and will be martyred during the Tribulation. Revelation 6 speaks of two groups in the 5th seal: those under the brazen alter (v.9) who have died in the past 20 centuries, and the rest of their brethren who will die in the Tribulation (v.11). The first group is told to wait ye a little longer (v.11): "should rest yet a little while."
The time-line of heretics bombarding with false doctrine is throughout every century and will intensify in the Laodicean, the last church period (Rev. 3.14-22). Laodicean means "differing opinions."
Before 70 AD we read "For many will come in my name" (Matt. 24.4). Matt. 24.4-6 pertain to the time before 70 AD, 7-14 pertain to the time following 70 AD, and 15-31 pertain to the time of the end.
v.4 The disciples have just asked about the destruction of the temple. This is a matter which deeply arrests their attention. In answering them, the Lord first warns them to be careful lest they be misled. For anyone studying prophecy, the preeminent safeguard which Jesus pronounces here is to “take heed that no man lead you astray".
vv.5-6 By whom will they be in danger of being led astray? (1) By false Christs. In his Wars of the Jews, the renowned Jewish historian Josephus recorded how false Christs and false prophets deceived the Jews by promising them miraculous deliverance. These false Christs were able to deceive the Jews because they had refused to believe in the real Christ. (2) By wars and rumors of wars. After the death of Christ, rumors of wars did spread abroad like wildfire.
We know the Great Tribulation has not yet occurred because 1/3 of the people of earth have not yet died in a great cataclysmic event (Rev. 9.18), nor have we seen the very specifically stated 200 million machine army in the middle east yet (v.16). The Dark Ages pertain instead to the generally speaking 2nd seal. Remember, the 6 seals are the past 20 centuries (they are secretively broken in this mystery age of the church), but the Great Tribulation comes after in the Trumpets. What initiates the Tribulation is the first rapture (7.9), for afterward the 7th seal is broken which opens up the 7 trumpets of the Tribulation.
Revelation 13 has not occurred yet for the mark of the beast has not been forced in people yet, to be able to buy or sell with the implant (v.17). The man has not been revealed yet who bears the number of the beast (v.18). Today, the first beast (v.12) has not been revealed, nor has the 2nd beast (v.11). If it was so the name of the beast could be given, but historicalists do not know the name of these beasts, for they are persons by name as was Nero and Judas. Judas was called the devil, and Neron Kaisar in Aramaic = 666 (v.18). Do you think there is dissension in families now? Just wait to see how families are torn apart by the actions of Antichrist in Tribulation. The 3rd person of the unholy trinity will be the ultimate false prophet.
Matt. 24 reads, "gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (v.14). The end is the Great Tribulation. The European Union will grab power, with its constituent 7 heads and 10 kings with its head in Rome in Revelation 18. Revelation 17 also shows us religious Rome will be the center there too. All of this is explained in Revelation 13.
Revelation 16 gives us more details of the Great Tribulation, particularly the 7th trumpet when the bowls are poured out. For example, those who took the mark of the beast implant will experience terrible sores (v.2). "Blast of heat" (v.9) from nuclear explosions take place: "everyone was burned." Even the "great River Euphrates" will dry up. This is truly Armageddon. It will make WWI and WWII pale in comparison. Finally "the great city of Babylon split into three pieces" (v.19).
Revelation 12 to 19 give the details of Rev. 6 to 11. Revelation 6 outlines the past 20 centuries, while Revelation 8 to 11 give the major points of the Tribulation. Rev. 7 is an interjection between the past 20 centuries and the Tribulation, while Revelation 10 is the interjection between the 6th trumpet and the 7th trumpet wherein the bowls are poured in the last trumpet. Bowls are larger than cups, and it is as if time stands still so much is going on in such a short period of time with such intensity.
The little book opened in Revelation 10 is the same book in Revelation 5. The second half can only be opened in the Tribulation because we are closer to that moment when those things are happening. We won't even known the sign of the Son of until we are in that moment. There will be signs to know we are nearing the season of the first rapture before the Tribulation, but we will not know the sign of the Son of Man stepping down on the mount of olives. It will be supernatural though.
The major signs are Israel returning to her homeland, millions of people receiving the implant under their skin, The European Union becoming the leading global power (even overshadowing China and India). In fact The Union might even extend all the way to include India. Peace in the world from a leader who seemed to perish, who then recovers to become the Antichrist and everyone believes in what he has to offer as the solution.
The sign of the Son of Man we simply cannot say because we are not in the Tribulation yet to know when He will step down on the mount of olives. The Tribulation must begin before we can know such things. When the 2nd half of the little book is opened, then the details of the minor aspects of revelation are made more clear (Rev. 12.1 to 19.21).
Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
This is the future Tribulation. The 1st 4 trumpets only hurt the earth, not the people. The last 3 trumpets, the woes, hurt the people of the earth.
On the matter of plagues and eruptions and so forth, understand that they are not necessarily larger but rather, because there are more people in those regions, they are more noticeable and do far more damage to more people and property. When did the population really start to take off? It was the 19th and 20th century. Christ will probably return this century given the implant is so pervasive already.
The most important question I can think that you should ask is: if you think all these things in Revelation have happened already and the Great Tribulation is behind you as historicalists believe, then when it comes will you be ready for it? Would you not be deceived, and either lose rewards in the kingdom or go to perdition?