What is abnormal for the Church?

[Churchwork]

After a Christian gets saved, there is a problem of consecration. Due to the lack of seeing what the normal church is, consecration also lacks because the life we have in Christ is a body life. If the body life is not present, then there will be little motivation for consecration.

We should not seek personal edification ahead of the body coordination. If we see this fact, then as soon as others are saved, they will instantly commit themselves to the Church.

If there are enough brothers and sisters standing on the complete ground of God's redemptive design, namely, substitution, co-crucifixion of the old-man, sanctification by faith, the inner life of the spirit, spiritual warfare, kingdom reality and its manifestation, sojourners in heavenly calling (holding no hope for the world)....then the local expression of the Church will have authority to witness for the Lord and bring people into right standing on the first day of their salvation.

[Razor]

Troy,
The only problem with this is... that Church attendance trends are showing a move away from the churches in America as an example.

Surveys have shown that while a lot of people believe in God they have had their fill of listening to hell preachers in Churches.
They just do not believe that a Loving God is going to condemn most of his creation to Hell.

They are correct in this belief as well, bear in mind it is easy to over look that God himself has always been in control and is directing this trend himself.

Remember Jesus said that your body is the Temple, that you choose which spirit dwells therin.

Church should be a place where people meet to discuss the Good News of the Gospel, which is the Universal Salvation of Man Kind.... but the Church is not that way today.

Today the Church tries to hold the congregation in a fear based bondage, to keep the collection plate money rolling in, or basicly they are out of a job with no income living on the street.... Like Jesus did when he preached the Gospel.

Just imagine if the Churches preached the Truth of the Gospel, about the corrective work of the one man in Jesus Christ... because non of us could ever attain that righteousness..... about Gods plan for the Universal Salvation of Man kind because of the actions and deeds of Jesus Christ..... My Goodness, the Churches would be filled to over flowing with people lined up on the streets outside.

It is the sort of Good News that make you want to Shout it from the Roof tops eh!

Peace to you

[Churchwork]

Troy,
The only problem with this is... that Church attendance trends are showing a move away from the churches in America as an example.
Understand how your response is belligerent and obstinate which is not a fruit of the Spirit. I had said, "Due to the lack of seeing what the normal church...", then you respond with "the only problem with this is...". What I stated indicates the problem, then you respond with saying there is a problem with this revelation. There is no problem with the revelation, but the problem does exist with your not recognizing this problem since the very reason you cited "a move away from the churches in America" agrees with what I have said, so why sin bearing false witness?

The reason for the move away from the churches in America as you state, is because of the flesh, rejecting the teachings of Jesus on Hell, and because for those who are in the Church, who want a more spiritual life, they are not fond of denominational divisions. There is two aspects to this.


Surveys have shown that while a lot of people believe in God they have had their fill of listening to hell preachers in Churches.
Many people are not saved not wanting to believe what Jesus said about Hell. Many Christians too remain fleshly and shall lose their rewards. And still other believers, are moving away from dividing the church falsely by denominations. There are several things going on here at once.


They just do not believe that a Loving God is going to condemn most of his creation to Hell.
Many do not want to accept the truth of the teachings of Jesus, because they prefer to live in their emotion and forsake the spirit life. This is nothing new under the sun. And many are deceived.


They are correct in this belief as well, bear in mind it is easy to over look that God himself has always been in control and is directing this trend himself.
I would not overassume so many people believe this, for you do not believe this, nor do you believe the control God employs with the use of Hell to keep you eternally separated from His own.


Remember Jesus said that your body is the Temple, that you choose which spirit dwells therin.
You have chosen. Remember this.


Church should be a place where people meet to discuss the Good News of the Gospel, which is the Universal Salvation of Man Kind.... but the Church is not that way today.
The Church never claimed the universal salvation of mankind, meaning all will be saved. Rather, God's way is to provide a universal salvation for those that receive Him and He graces with His life.


Today the Church tries to hold the congregation in a fear based bondage, to keep the collection plate money rolling in, or basicly they are out of a job with no income living on the street.... Like Jesus did when he preached the Gospel.
Despite the unrighteous motivations of many in Christendom, it does not change the fact that God will be placing those such as yourself in Hell who deny the teachings of Jesus on Hell. Many will speak of Jesus, but they don't accept what He says. There are false prophets, false Christs. May brothers and sisters not be deceived by those possessed by antinomianism and universalism. Those so possessed have a seared conscience and most of which were never born-again. This is why they can't appreciate when Jesus spoke about eternal separation from God.


Just imagine if the Churches preached the Truth of the Gospel, about the corrective work of the one man in Jesus Christ... because non of us could ever attain that righteousness..... about Gods plan for the Universal Salvation of Man kind because of the actions and deeds of Jesus Christ..... My Goodness, the Churches would be filled to over flowing with people lined up on the streets outside.
The churches do teach the work of one man Jesus Christ. To accuse the church of not doing this, is your sin against the church. Praise God the church does not teach that everyone is going to be saved for that is a lie, and it is not unlike reincarnation, endless second chances. Praise God the church is not overflowing as much as it would be with this false teaching for it would then be no better than the world living such a lie.


It is the sort of Good News that make you want to Shout it from the Roof tops eh! Peace to you
This is not the Good News claiming everyone is saved or going to be saved or calling Jesus a liar when Jesus spoke of Hell more than anyone. This is the devil's brew.

May you yet receive Christ into your life and receive the fruit of the Spirit of peace.

Praise the Lord!

[Razor]

Troy,
To be honest, everything about your Web Site indicates to me that you are trying to create some new denomination of your own dividing the Church even further.

I have yet to find anything on your website that would indicate to me, that you are even preaching the Gospel of Grace here.
I am not about to condemn you for this, I am nobodys Judge, but as a follower of Jesus Christ it does disturb me ....

It is my hope you will not be held accountable for this.

Peace to you

[Churchwork]

Troy,
To be honest, everything about your Web Site indicates to me that you are trying to create some new denomination of your own dividing the Church even further.
Nothing you say specifically would indicate this, so why accuse like Satan the great accuser and try to sin bearing false witness so coyly? I have told the truth, particularly the only way God divides the church is according to Biblical locality found in agreement here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/whichchurch.htm

Your attacks come because you are a universalist non-Christian and can sense I see your unsalvation as revealed by the Holy Spirit.


I have yet to find anything on your website that would indicate to me, that you are even preaching the Gospel of Grace here.
I am not about to condemn you for this, I am nobodys Judge, but as a follower of Jesus Christ it does disturb me ....
Your accusations unfounded are expected for you are not a Christian and so you allege many things without basis. Many who claim Christ are not actually born-again. This is easy to see you are going to hell for you call Jesus a liar when Jesus spoke of hell more than any other in the Bible.

Vague accusations are the tool of the devil. This page will help you come to Christ to receive His atonement (John 3.16,18) if you are repentant in coming to the cross,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/JesusGod.htm


It is my hope you will not be held accountable for this.
Peace to you
It is my hope that you one day come to Christ and stop calling Jesus a liar when He spoke on hell.

Mat 23:33 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat023.html#33) [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mar 9:45 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar009.html#45) the fire that never shall be quenched:

God will not judge me for accepting His salvation. He forgave me. He will not forgive you for calling His Son a liar. This is blaspheming the Holy Spirit for the life of the Son is the Spirit for it is the Son spoke forth on eternal separation from God whom you reject.

I know God will hold you accountable for your rejecting the Gospel of Jesus Christ for another. According to John 3.18 you are already condemend.

Here is a link to help you with your thoughts which revile Jesus Christ words on Hell under your breath.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/universalismhell.htm

[Razor]

Troy,
The Gospel of Grace for the Gentiles was given to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus, in no uncetain fashion.
God even struck Saul Blind to get accross to him that the will of Jesus was the will of God case closed.

Not only did Jesus Give Paul this wonderfull revelation, Paul was Chosen because of WHO he was.

Who was Paul..... he was Saul of Tarsas, he was commissioned to hunt down and persucute this new Jesus following sect called Christians.

[Churchwork]

Troy,
The Gospel of Grace for the Gentiles was given to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus, in no uncetain fashion.
God even struck Saul Blind to get accross to him that the will of Jesus was the will of God case closed.

Not only did Jesus Give Paul this wonderfull revelation, Paul was Chosen because of WHO he was.

Who was Paul..... he was Saul of Tarsas, he was commissioned to hunt down and persucute this new Jesus following sect called Christians.

Paul humbly chose and that is why God saved Paul. Paul could have fought and kicked all the way still refusing God, but he did not. He gave in. He succumbed to the will of the Lord. God chose Paul because Paul was the one whom God foreknew would repent to receive the cross. And Paul was a great testimony of one who turned from his attack on Christians. What a complete turn of events! What is impossible with men is possible with God.

Now that said, how does this help stop you on your road to perdition? For you still call Jesus a liar, rejecting His gospel, when Jesus was adamant about hell is not only needed but necessary for souls such as yourself whose false fruit claims everyone will be saved. The Gospel says nothing of the kind. The very reason for the Gospel is because of man's sin leading to death and the second death. so those who shall receive Him, He gives His life to by the power of the eterrnal cross.

Refusing Christ begets this fantasy universalism as sin begets sin and selfish self-servingness begets more. It shows you have no relationship with God at all and are just playing pretend in your party spirit of whom you engorge yourself with the company you keep in this lie. Your spirit is utterly dead to God with its conscience as dull as can be.

[Razor]

Troy,
Saul was not in prayer contemplating accepting Jesus into is his life on the road to Damascus that day.
He had heard new reports about another Jesus following Christian Sect in the Damascus area, he was out to persecute this Christian Group.

Now according to your version of religion Troy, Saul should be going to an ever lasting Hell..... but he did not.

GOD DREW SAUL TO HIMSELF!

The revelation of the gospel of the grace of God given directly to the apostle Paul by the risen Christ is the gospel in which you and I now stand. It is radical, practical, and biblical. It is radical because it declares that God has already reconciled the entire world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19), that He will make the same "many" who were sinners in Adam righteous in Christ (Romans 5:19), and that He will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth...to be testified in due time (1 Timothy 2:4-6). These spiritual blessings, and all others that mankind will enjoy, are a result of the Person and work of Jesus Christ plus nothing.

The Risen Christ Troy,

Not the Pre redemption ministry to the Jews.

Peace

[Churchwork]

Troy,
Saul was not in prayer contemplating accepting Jesus into is his life on the road to Damascus that day.
He had heard new reports about another Jesus following Christian Sect in the Damascus area, he was out to persecute this Christian Group.
The power of choice of the will being made in God's image which is giving man his own sovereigny can choose anything in a heartbeat. It is not for you to know how exactly, but the fact remains, it is so, which glorifies God. A choice may or may be preceded by prayer or even contemplation of Jesus. One second a person may not be thinking of Jesus at all, and then next, wholly give his life to Jesus because of the instant realization that vanity of the world is futile and that it all ends in Christ. It must!

Another example of the power of choice is a man or woman in some remote region of the world who never heard of Jesus one minute could believe there is no God, and the next minute give his life to God, not even knowing of Jesus and the Bible. But surely once believing, if shown the Word he would agree as well with the Word.


Now according to your version of religion Troy, Saul should be going to an ever lasting Hell..... but he did not.
Saul chose God because he accepted God's drawing, and God foreknowing this, chose Paul. According to this, why sin bearing false witness claiming Saul should go to Hell, when we see Paul chose God to receive God's saving grace?


GOD DREW SAUL TO HIMSELF!
It is true.


The revelation of the gospel of the grace of God given directly to the apostle Paul by the risen Christ is the gospel in which you and I now stand. It is radical, practical, and biblical. It is radical because it declares that God has already reconciled the entire world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19), that He will make the same "many" who were sinners in Adam righteous in Christ (Romans 5:19), and that He will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth...to be testified in due time (1 Timothy 2:4-6). These spiritual blessings, and all others that mankind will enjoy, are a result of the Person and work of Jesus Christ plus nothing.
God has reconciled the world to Himself through Christ. All is in motion because of Christ. A legalists may think this means God is going to save everyone, but it is not the case at all, just their headiness. How the soul is deceived in its ideas. Rom 5.19 says, "shall many be made righteous", not ALL will be.

1 Tim 2.4-6 does not say all men will be saved; it is says God wished it would be the case if all men would, but of course, not all men do. You don't, for you think in your false fruit not of God that all men will be saved and call Jesus a liar when Jesus spoke on eternal separation in hell more than anyone in the Bible. How loving God speaks this way in Christ. What a loving warning! God does all that He can to convince you not to go to hell, but still you insist on going there. So be it. Even God won't stop you if hat is what you want!

Razor you will not receive the gift of eternal life because you don't want it. God's way is Christ's substitution plus identification. Not only do you say identification in co-death with Christ is nothing, you also reject His substitution because to call Jesus a liar about His addressing Hell, is rejecting His substition. Ergo, God has not forgiven you. You are unforgiven and hell awaits you.


The Risen Christ Troy,
Sinning bearing false witness. Be careful how you put your words together.


Not the Pre redemption ministry to the Jews.

Peace
Israel is the first nation God revealed Himself to, why does this offend you so much? As they looked to the cross, we who are in Christ look back at the cross. You can not have resurrection life if you have not died with Christ.

The fruit of the Spirit is peace in a life in Christ. Since you are not in Christ, you are without the fruit of the Spirit. There can be no peace in you as long as you call Jesus a liar when he mentions hell more than any other in the Scriptures. How sad for you.

[Razor]

To this very Day Troy, Israel still celebrates all the old Testament ritual worshipping of God..... because they are a Proud people, they refuse to recognise Jesus as the Messiah.
Even as they did thousands of years ago when they mob screamed for Barabas to be Freed and Christ to be crucified.
To this very day Judaism still preaches that the Lord God is One and that followers of Jesus stole his body in the night, and that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

Let me give you an insight into just how proud the Jews are Troy.... about how they are Gods own people.

The reason Jesus spoke of Hell so much as he preached the Gospel to the Jews, is because Jesus was alive then walking amongst men, he had not yet attoned for the Sins of all men (not just the Jews) on the Cross.

So here we have Jesus teaching Men to be perfect under the Law, specificately the Jews, now do you think Jesus had the effect on them that they would then live perfect lives under the Law......especially in light of the incident where Jesus turned around and declared to them.....

OH WICKED GENERATION... HOW LONG MUST I BE WITH YOU !

Only one person was ever going to be able to live up to the Righteouse requirements of the Law Troy.... then and now.... and that was Jesus.

Then of course Jesus finaly had the effect that was foretold on the Jews, and they had him put to Death by the Romans for Blasphemy.
However in doing so the Bible Phopesy of the Sacrafical Lamb being sent to the slaughter for the Remission of Sin was full filled.

Now we move down the time line to the first Century AD.
Saul of Tarsus is on the road to Damascus, he was responding to a report of a Christian group active in Damascus, his intention was to hunt them down and SLAY them..... put them to the Sword.
SAUL was Deep Deep in Unbelief !

On the Road to Damascus that Day God struck Saul Blind, and Jesus said to SAUL...... Saul why do you persecute me....

There is no instance where Saul was contemplating anything but the annihlation of these Jesus following sects.....

God bent Saul to his Will, but he did it with Grace, and the reason God chose Saul, was because of WHO he was... so that others would know, that nobody will be lost to God!
Not even those who persecute the Faith....

I believe the Lord chose wisely, you can bet Saul did not choose this course of action... we can see that God had to strike him blind to put a stop to Saul to begin with...

Now look at the wonderfull revalation Jesus gave to Saul as he changed him into the Apostle Paul.

What Awesome revalations too... about how righteousnes is by Faith and not by Works lest any man should Boast.

Note how Paul spends the first 7 chapters tearing down any pillar of hope a man has of attaining right standing before God via his own actions and deeds.... he had too Troy because of the proud Jews..... then he opens chapter 8 speaking about the Grace in Abundance with Christ Jesus.

Now lets put the Puzzel together, you said before I was offended by Jews... not at all.... one day all men who have or will ever live, will be Israelites!

Now we have modern Israel, and even though Judasim is still preached, many Jews are no longer Orthodox and are turning to Christ because thay are unable to live up to his teaching about how men where to be perfect under the Law.

The Gospel of Grace given to Paul by the Glorified Risen Christ on the road to Damascus, tells us directly from Jesus that Righteousness is a Gift not a wage you can earn, that righteousness is by Faith not by works.

That the sins of the World have already been disposed of on the Cross, that God wills that all men be saved, that nothing now seperates man kind from the Love of God.

God has well and truly shown his intentions to save all, and he has the power to do this and we know his will cannot be thwarted by anybody or anything, those that still refuse to believe will be bent to Gods will in the same way Paul was... with Grace!

Peace

[Razor]

Lastly,

What of the Proud Jews, that still refused to believe in Jesus, right up to their death beds, down through the Generations.... there would be thousands of them.

They knew about Christ, but still refused to believe he was the Messiah, are they all going to Hell as Jesus said... no way Troy, all Sin has already been paid for by Christ on the Cross.

We have to remember that the Will of Jesus is the Will of God, and God has always planned the Universal Salvation of Man Kind from day one.

So how does their Salvation happen for refusing to believe Christ was the Messiah who rose from the dead!

Let see what God has to say on the matter....

Thus saith the Lord God: Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and Cause you to come up out of your graves ... And ye shall know that I am the LORD ... And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall Live, and I shall place you in your own land ..." (Ezek. 37:11-13).

..... end of story.

Peace

[Churchwork]

To this very Day Troy, Israel still celebrates all the old Testament ritual worshipping of God..... because they are a Proud people, they refuse to recognise Jesus as the Messiah.
Even as they did thousands of years ago when they mob screamed for Barabas to be Freed and Christ to be crucified.
Yes. By the way your use of capitals in the oddest places is nonsensical.


To this very day Judaism still preaches that the Lord God is One and that followers of Jesus stole his body in the night, and that Jesus did not rise from the dead.
This is not so much unlike your own faith where you claim you believe in God also yet you call Jesus a liar when Jesus spoke of Hell, but you reject His teaching. This is your pride welling up in a pet doctrine that is false.



Let me give you an insight into just how proud the Jews are Troy.... about how they are Gods own people.

The reason Jesus spoke of Hell so much as he preached the Gospel to the Jews, is because Jesus was alive then walking amongst men, he had not yet attoned for the Sins of all men (not just the Jews) on the Cross.

This is no reason. One does not speak of Hell just because of being on earth or because One has not yet died. No! Whether one is alive or dead, the Holy Spirit continues the same teaching of Jesus Christ. Praise the Lord! Your reasoning is mindless and nonsensical. It is so, because your mind is not renewed by the Holy Spirit since your spirit is still dead to God. It is dead to God as shown forth by the fact you think everyone is saved.

Some additional thoughts on your bias against the Jews...

Jesus did not speak the Gospel only to the Jews, for Gentiles heard his Word also. Moreover, this does not change the fact that the Israelites were the first nation God revealed Himself to.

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" (Gen. 12.3). God has promised that through the Jewish race the whole earth would be blessed. The OT prophets called the Jews to be a light to the other nations of the world, bringing them to the knowledge of God; and they had predicted the Messiah's coming. Jesus said, "Salvation comes through the Jews" (John 4.22).



So here we have Jesus teaching Men to be perfect under the Law, specificately the Jews, now do you think Jesus had the effect on them that they would then live perfect lives under the Law......especially in light of the incident where Jesus turned around and declared to them.....

OH WICKED GENERATION... HOW LONG MUST I BE WITH YOU !

Don't exalt man by capitalizing Men. Don't exalt the Law with a capital.

Hell is not just for the Jews. Understand what Hell is. Hell is an eternal separation from God because souls such as yourself will always reject Christ in your heart of hearts. This is why you think Jesus is only speaking to the Jews, and not the Gentiles. This is why you may claim Jesus, but inside are dirty and ungenerate. This is what you want for yourself, though you should be ashamed of yourself.

God gives you the choice, "And if it seem evil unto you to serve Jehovah, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah" (Joshua 24.15).



Only one person was ever going to be able to live up to the Righteouse requirements of the Law Troy.... then and now.... and that was Jesus.

Then of course Jesus finaly had the effect that was foretold on the Jews, and they had him put to Death by the Romans for Blasphemy.
However in doing so the Bible Phopesy of the Sacrafical Lamb being sent to the slaughter for the Remission of Sin was full filled.

It is true only Jesus can live up to the law non-capitalized. Jesus came to fill up the law, not to abolish the law. The law remains. The 9 moral commandments are just as true today as they were then. You have your Pharasaical law of all are saved which is not in God's loving Word found anywhere. You should not live your life on such big overassumings. You will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.



Now we move down the time line to the first Century AD.
Saul of Tarsus is on the road to Damascus, he was responding to a report of a Christian group active in Damascus, his intention was to hunt them down and SLAY them..... put them to the Sword.
SAUL was Deep Deep in Unbelief !

On the Road to Damascus that Day God struck Saul Blind, and Jesus said to SAUL...... Saul why do you persecute me....

There is no instance where Saul was contemplating anything but the annihlation of these Jesus following sects.....
You are repeating yourself mindlessly, and not responding to this answer I have given you before. You ought not to be belligerent and obstinate. Do not let your flesh thrive like that.

Contemplating is no requirement. God convinces, but He does not coerce. Once God does His convincing, the subject still needs to accept. God does not make robots. Your teaching of roboticism is evil don't you know? God gives us the choice...a choice you have yet to make for the Risen Lord.

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;Deu 30:16 in that I command thee this day to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his ordinances, that thou mayest live and multiply, and that Jehovah thy God may bless thee in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.Deu 30:17 But if thy heart turn away, and thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish; ye shall not prolong your days in the land, whither thou passest over the Jordan to go in to possess it.Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed;Deu 30:20 to love Jehovah thy God, to obey his voice, and to cleave unto him; for he is thy life, and the length of thy days; that thou mayest dwell in the land which Jehovah sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.



God bent Saul to his Will, but he did it with Grace, and the reason God chose Saul, was because of WHO he was... so that others would know, that nobody will be lost to God!
Not even those who persecute the Faith....

The reason God chose Saul was not because of who He was, but because God foresaw the choice Saul would make. It is not because of the nature of person, for we are all made in God's image, and God is no respecter of persons (Acts. 10.34). God used Saul most effectively to write the most books in the NT, a person who was the least likely to be chosen to show the power of God. It is not to teach that no one would be lost. To draw this implication is not to be found except in your self-declarations which needs to die on the cross. The correct implication is that God CAN save anyone, not that everyone will be saved!


I believe the Lord chose wisely, you can bet Saul did not choose this course of action... we can see that God had to strike him blind to put a stop to Saul to begin with...
The Lord always chooses wisely. Saul did choose Christ, and once saved for choosing Christ on the cross, God worked in him to increase his faith and to do great works as he was led by the Holy Spirit. Even many who are struck blind still refuse God, but praise the Lord Paul heeded God's calling because he was repented and came to the cross of his own volition and sovereign will which gives glory to God. God wants to be with those who choose His life, not those who claim they are premade like robots or machines. This is not mercy or grace. Your universalism is very much like calvinism in that calvinism teaches the same roboticism so cold and unfeeling. Universalism is even more cold and unfeeling for it claims not only roboticism but also without conscience everyone is saved. How evil! It tickles the ear but it is not spiritual reality. One wonders if the Antichrist will go by way of calvinism or abuse the Scriptures by trying to alter the Word with universalism. Whatever the case, God's wrath will come upon you (Rev. 22.18,19).



Now look at the wonderfull revalation Jesus gave to Saul as he changed him into the Apostle Paul.

What Awesome revalations too... about how righteousnes is by Faith and not by Works lest any man should Boast.

Note how Paul spends the first 7 chapters tearing down any pillar of hope a man has of attaining right standing before God via his own actions and deeds.... he had too Troy because of the proud Jews..... then he opens chapter 8 speaking about the Grace in Abundance with Christ Jesus.

This is true. But this does not solve your problem in which you think everyone is saved by roboticism. Not everyone is justified by faith because not everyone believes and will not. Do you see how you deny the first 7 chapters not to attain salvation by works, your works of claiming and professing that everyone is saved. This is a false work not of God and can't save you in your sin of making this allegation against God's loving Word. Remember, if you have no basis in your belief, ask yourself why you believe it? If you can't substantiate know you are clinging onto your flesh for the sake of your lifestyle in sin and self, even evil supernatural control.



Now lets put the Puzzel together, you said before I was offended by Jews... not at all.... one day all men who have or will ever live, will be Israelites!

Self-declarations don't count. If you can't back it up then all you have is self at the center. The true Jew is the true Christian, but not all are Christians. Ergo, hell is created for you Razor because God says we shall know them by their fruit and your false fruit is claiming all will be saved.

Since you are just repeating yourself mindlessly rejecting the teachings of Jesus on hell, then soon you will be banned for mindless belligerency and obstinacy. What else can I do? It does you no good to let you repeat yourself like a clanging bell. I would be doing you a disservice. Even now my courtesy to you has been too much already, but for the sake of you not blaming me, I give you this time to speak before you are inevitibly removed.


Now we have modern Israel, and even though Judasim is still preached, many Jews are no longer Orthodox and are turning to Christ because thay are unable to live up to his teaching about how men where to be perfect under the Law.
This is the point of the law uncapitalized, which points to Christ because no man can keep the law, only Christ.


The Gospel of Grace given to Paul by the Glorified Risen Christ on the road to Damascus, tells us directly from Jesus that Righteousness is a Gift not a wage you can earn, that righteousness is by Faith not by works.
This is already known by Christians, why repeat an obvious fact of the Gospel. Do you not do this because you are attempting to deflect from the real problem that you are not saved because you have not received the grace of God because you do not believe Him as shown forth in your believing everyone is saved. God does not advise people to receive His life for no reason at all. Some will, some will not make that choice. Those that do not, such as yourself, need be eternally separated in hell. What else can God do? Even if you were to go blind, still you would not give your life to Christ. I believe the hell for you that is to come will be much worse for you particularly because you came so close to God and still reject Him with your claiming everyone is saved. God wants to save everyone but He will not coerce those who do not love Him.


That the sins of the World have already been disposed of on the Cross, that God wills that all men be saved, that nothing now seperates man kind from the Love of God.
Man separates himself from the love of God. This is why the nations are still deceived and war. This is why people commit the brutalist of crimes. This is why not too long ago 6 million Jews were killed in a few short years. You are living a lie Razor claiming in the power of your own might and separation from God that nothing now separates man kind from the love of the Lord. Ergo, hell is the only option for those such as yourself.

The sins of the world have not been disposed of for they are most readily apparent everywhere in great measure. Rather, God has provided a means of salvation available to all for the means of being presentable to God by His death on the cross and removal of all sins untowards the new city and the new earth. Razor, you know not what you speak of because you are lost in will-worship.


God has well and truly shown his intentions to save all, and he has the power to do this and we know his will cannot be thwarted by anybody or anything, those that still refuse to believe will be bent to Gods will in the same way Paul was... with Grace! Peace
God can not save a person who does no accept Him. He wants to save this person, but righteously He will not, for then that person becomes a machine or a robot rather than one made in the image of God with a right to choose to receive the gift of eternal life by the grace of God. God's will is to allow this, and thus, His Will will not be thwarted. Most will go to hell such as yourself. God does not have the power to go against His own will.

Many will not be sent to God's will in the same way as Paul was or I was or my brothers in sisters in Christ will, because they will always refuse God, and thus God needs to eternally separate them in Hell.

I would expect no less is your destination since you call Jesus a liar when Jesus spoke of Hell to both the Jews and the Gentiles.

Only when you are born-again can it be possible for you to receive the fruit of the Spirit of peace, love, joy and long-suffering. What you have now is a facsimile, but it fails you.

[Razor]

I never did question about all those people who did not even know Jesus, who have already Died, there where millions of them.

So what becomes of them?
Check out this Wild bit of Scripture Troy....

"There shall be no more thence an infant of days; for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed" (Isaiah 65:20 ).

Consider the Awesome ramifications for this bit of Scripture.

Peace

[Churchwork]

I never did question about all those people who did not even know Jesus, who have already Died, there where millions of them.

So what becomes of them?
Check out this Wild bit of Scripture Troy....

"There shall be no more thence an infant of days; for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed" (Isaiah 65:20 ).

Consider the Awesome ramifications for this bit of Scripture.

Peace

This is a look to the millennial kingdom at the return of Christ when He shall step down on the mount of olives, He says, "And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people" (Isaiah 65.19a). Remember, at this point, all the unsaved such as yourself will be waiting in the bad side of Hades to be resurrected after the millennial kingdom reign of Christ with His overcomers, which is otherwise known as the time of recompense. And finally after the millennium, the new city and the near earth, "the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying" (v.19b).

Israel could generally speaking only see the millennial kingdom. They could not see the new heaven and new earth with as much clarity as we do today through additional revelation in the Word.

The new city and the new earth is for the saved, not for the unsaved. Rewards for overcoming in Christian in the millennial kingdom will reign in the millennium, and the unsaved during the millennium will not likely live to be even a hundred.

Consider your error in applying this verse to those who are unsaved such as yourself. It is totally inappropriate, and as usual you are trying to study the Word of God with your mind while forsaking the spirit. Time and time again, with you, this shows you can't study the Bible with your head, while your spirit remains unquickened. This is like trying to do a grade 12 math exam, and you haven't even entered high school yet.

I am sad that you are going to hell Razor but you call Jesus a liar when He spoke of hell more than any other, as an eternal separation from God. What's worse you aim to deceive Christendom and my brothers and sisters in Christ, and we can't have that. Are you in the running for the Antichrist? As sad as I am for you, I am nonetheless greatful the spirit of wisdom and revelation and discernment the Lord has given me to be able to see easily underneath your wiles and the evil spirit stirring in your spirit. Thank God for the full armour of God!

With your conscience being so dead to God, and have not entered into the new creation because of your universalism as a sign of fruit not flowing from the Spirit, Christians can easily see you are not a member of the body of Christ, but are in some cult to be sure.

[Razor]

You amuse me Troy,
My Faith is in him who Justified the Ungodly on the Cross at Calvary... Jesus Christ.

My confidence in him is complete, nobody could shake that confidence...
Peace

[Churchwork]

You amuse me Troy,
My Faith is in him who Justified the Ungodly on the Cross at Calvary... Jesus Christ.

My confidence in him is complete, nobody could shake that confidence...
Peace

I realize I am a joke to you for you are not my brother in Christ sad to say. You call Jesus a liar who spoke on hell more than any other, when you teach universalism.

Your confidence is in a god which you try to have replicate the work of Jesus Christ with a twist.

May you receive Christ into your life and receive the fruit of the Spirit which is peace.

As we can see you will not repent, and so you must be cast out of the church, including this forum, for to continue to hear you self-declare your position without basis is futile, and does you no good, nor does nothing for the cause here to strengthen the church according to Biblical locality, which includes the awareness and acceptance by the apostles that many are going to hell forever with those such as yourself.

[Churchwork]

For those like Razor who do not believe some will be eternally separated from God, hear the words of Jesus Christ:

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" (John 5.29).

You do not really believe in Jesus if you reject His words. Just like the Pharisees said they believed in God the Father, but they reject the Son of God in practice.