Apostles

[Pax]

Hi Troy, and everyone who may want to discuss this!

I was wondering where does the idea of female Apostles come from? It was asked of us in our profiles, and I was not sure how to answer this.

The reason why I was unsure of how to answer this is because the bible never speaks of female apostles. In fact, I think Paul talks against women preaching, teaching in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:34 (King James)
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience
as also saith the law.

Now, from my understanding of this verse it simply states that women are to be silent in church affairs. They aren't to preach, etc. This is why I did not put a check on the 'yes' in the question of 6 apostles that are male and 6 that are female.

Jesus Himself chose for Himself 12 male Apostles. I have always understood that the reason for this, and the reason for women not to be allowed to speak in church is not to be mean or derogatory, but rather to paint the picture. God calls Himself FATHER, Jesus is the Son, and in our own lives both in our church ministry life but also in our married life we are called to do the same thing.

That doesn't mean the women are sub-human or not equal with males. It is just that their roles are different.


In Ephesians 5 it says that:

22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

So as the Church (female in the picture) is subject to Christ, so let wives be submit to their husbands.

But then the beauty of it, the picture of just how much Jesus loved us and how God wants us to love our wives, for those of us who are married, I am not:


25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Christ loved the Church so much that He died for it, He died for us. That is how husbands are to love their wifes.

So, this is my understanding and this is where I am coming from in trying to answer that question. I find it hard to answer some of the questions, in some cases because I have to study those things more, and in others, because I only agree with parts of it. Or, I only know that I do agree / disagree with one part of it, but not with another part of it. If that makes any sense! :)

At anyrate, this is where I am coming from in asking my question. I just want to understand and learn more.

In Him

PAX

[Churchwork]

Pax,

Romans 16.7 speaks of two notable apostles, Andronicus and Junia, and good authorities agree that "Junia" is a woman's name. So here we have a sister as an apostle and a notable apostle at that. "Salute Andronicus and Junias [some manuscripts say "Julia"], my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also have been in Christ before me" (16.7). These apostles were doing the Work of the Ministry even before Paul started. Male-centered systems will try to teach these apostles are not apostles, rejecting God's commissioning and authority, because they prefer a male-centric and egotistical system which is abusive towards women. God's Word would never be so unclear as to confuse "note among the apostles" could be taken to mean they are merely respected by the apostles. No! They are "among the apostles" because they are apostles. Who is the author of confusion?

This same word for Junia is given in the KJV, "Salute Philologus, and Julia" (v.15). Julia means "soft haired". The KJV Concordance says a "Christian woman" and Thayer's Lexicon says "a women's name...and the name occurs again in Rom. 16.15".

Women have the problem with their emotion, so as long as women do not contain this problem, they should not preach.

Now, you said, "because I only agree with parts of it. Or, I only know that I do agree / disagree with one part of it, but not with another part of it." But since your reasoning is not valid, but taking legalistically what is said, it would not stand to reason.

Since a woman can be an Apostle, she can be anything. When you take a look at these verses surrounding women, it is addressing their emotionalism which is a problem, but as long as they resolve this problem, they can be in any ministry. If no women stepped up to the plate previously as Elders of a locality or a meeting place, may they do so now.

We are not to suffer a man to teach us; nor are we to suffer a woman to teach us (1 Tim. 2.12) for "as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him" (1 John 2.27, 2 Cor. 4.10).

How strange it would be that Philip was a deacon, who then became an Evangelist, and yet women could not be in the 4 fold Ministry even though they were deacons.

Just ask yourself one question: is not even one woman in the whole world allowed to be an Elder of a meeting place or a locality? This is not of God if you say that.

Women need to realize, though humbly, they are fallen in a different way than man. Eve ate of the fruit with a darkened mind (that is, doubting God), while man ate of the fruit for the affection of Eve, knowingly sinning. Both are sinning, but in comparing the fall of men and women, Paul says,

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor" (1 Tim. 2.12-14). This is a call to be humble in light of what has occurred in the fall. This does not disallow women from teaching, but is an expression of how careful women need to be when they teach and do the Work of the Ministry or as elders or deacons.

When your mother (or father) told you to never do something again, because she was so angry with you or because she knew how unhealthy it was for you, she did not mean for you to not do it again per se, but because you did it so often improperly, she was obliged to say to you the fantastic importance not to do wrong again, even to the point of exaggerating or extenuating the point beyond normal expectations.

Christianity is not a man-centric faith. Christians do not legalize the Scriptures like a bad lawyer. This point needed to be expressed this way because many mistreat women in the faith, and women in general, who have a direct commission from God to be apostles or do other Work for the Church. The work of the evil spirit is to find a way to make a mockery of the church through abusiveness towards women to induce women to walk away or to make Christianity look like a man-centric faith.

"The Lord giveth the word: The women that publish the tidings are a great host" (Psalm 68.11).

"Anna, a prophet, was also there in the Temple" (Luke 2.36).

[Pax]

Troy,

What is your definition of an Apostle? My understanding is that an Apostle is one who is chosen by Christ Himself.

All of the Apostles - including Paul, were chosen by Christ. What do you think about this?

[Churchwork]

All the Apostles were chosen by Christ whether He was on earth or at the right hand of the Father in heaven. Did you not realize there were Apostles directly commissioned by God after Jesus was resurrected and raised up to heaven? :)