Being an Apostle

[Churchwork]

Am I an apostle? Am I going around choosing elders to take care of whole localities? No. Is anyone doing this? Not that I know of. So when does this happen? It happens when a person knows God has given them this calling to do it.

The purpose of Biblocality Forums is to bring the Ministry together in agreement and build a Meeting Place Finder for the Body of Christ. This is perfect cause and effect.

I have read the Word of God and can easily prove to you hands down that Scriptural locality did in fact occur in the first century: that is, the apostles went around to Biblical localities and chose elders, and those elders took care of those localities. The elders took care of a whole locality. Not just a congregation, but all the meeting places of a locality.

My calling is the acknowledgment that this is needed and have this forum and have the questionnaire begun which the twelve will come to complete agreement on to ensure the right questions. May my calling be one of those apostles, God will reveal this at the appropriate time.

What matters now is bringing together those who want to make this happen and the apostles, since they have been commissioned by God, will apply the Meeting Place Finder as will the elders they choose for their localities. That would seem to be a prudent coarse of action to take to wait upon agreement. There ought not to be any independent moves (http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51).

[Nogreaterlove]

It seems to me that to be an apostle, one must have the ability to call people out of the world and into the Kingdom...into an actual life of laying down one's life for the brethren...and the ability to build people who respond into a living body of believers who act as one in their location, as a habitation of God in the Spirit.

I am just wondering...is there anyone here who has demonstrated such ability and grace and gifting? I know I haven't.

Anyone who thinks they are an apostle, ought to be able to point behind them, to gathered communities of people who are loving each other and living together as one....as Paul said to the Corinthians, "though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, you have not many fathers..for in Christ I have begotten you through the gospel". He called them "the seal of my apostleship in the Lord".

Gathered communities of people, living together in the love of John 13:34 and the unity of John 17:21, are, it seems to me, the fruit of apostolic gifting.

When I run into someone who thinks they are an apostle, I ask them "where are your People"? Usually, they have none...which means, essentially, that their apostleship exists only in their own mind.

Does anyone here have any communities of disciples behind them that they have gathered? I am just wondering, because before I spend a lot of time learning and sharing here, I would like to know if there is any reality behind this talk, or if it is just more of the standard Christian Gnostic Posturing one sees so much of on the internet....

Sincerely,
Nogreaterlove

[Churchwork]

Nogreaterlove,

All Christians are to give the Gospel, not just apostles.

What has been spoken here is the truth. If it were not so, you could show otherwise. Noone here is claiming to be an apostle that is not, for to be an apostle is to be commissioned by God in the Work of the Church - actually going out and setting up localities by appointing and training elders to take care of those localities; and those elders accepting their appointment.

Not until we have the twelve in agreement will we have the informal apostles prepared to do the Work accordingly. Otherwise, an independent move is produced. I would not overassume Biblical locality is existing anywhere in the world today. I know of no place, do you? Communities can be described as several meeting places, but a community is not large enough to be considered a Biblical locality. A Biblical locality has many meeting places. I would say Nogreaterlove, your terminology does not depict Biblical localty properly, since communities are not the way to describe meeting places or localities.

There must be not only truth that is precise, but also proper cause and effect. For example, did Jesus choose five to go out before he chose the twelve? No. He chose the twelve and then sent out the twelve. And other apostles followed in the same work. This is the law of proper cause and effect.

We should not blame people for not being apostles, nor should we overassume people are apostles based on a communities ideology (utterly too vague and inaccurate), especially considering there has not been the twelve to join together in agreement yet, nor should we sin bearing false witness with rhetoric like "standard Gnostic Posturing" in spite of the truth being spoken here. In your present depiction of the working for the church, I do not find you are helpful Nogreaterlove, but do add confusion. Also, you should not misuse the term gnostic. To understand gnosticism, read here (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/lostbooks.htm).

My sense is that you are putting the cart before the horse Nogreaterlove; that is, you are making a demand upon the Work for the Church which should not precede first the twelve joined together in agrement, to build the Meeting Place Finder, the questionnaire (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/needtoagree.htm), and then going out and choosing elders. Satan is that great vague accuser! Always remember that. God deals in specifics and His mind is clear, without confusion.

[saint]

Am I an apostle? Am I going around choosing elders to take care of whole localities? No. Is anyone doing this? Not that I know of. So when does this happen? It happens when a person knows God has given them this calling to do it.

The purpose of Biblocality Forums is to bring the Ministry together in agreement and build a Meeting Place Finder for the Body of Christ. This is perfect cause and effect.

I have read the Word of God and can easily prove to you hands down that Scriptural locality did in fact occur in the first century: that is, the apostles went around to Biblical localities and chose elders, and those elders took care of those localities. The elders took care of a whole locality. Not just a congregation, but all the meeting places of a locality.

My calling is the acknowledgment that this is needed and have this forum and have the questionnaire begun which the twelve will come to complete agreement on to ensure the right questions. May my calling be one of those apostles, God will reveal this at the appropriate time.

What matters now is bringing together those who want to make this happen and the apostles, since they have been commissioned by God, will apply the Meeting Place Finder as will the elders they choose for their localities. That would seem to be a prudent coarse of action to take to wait upon agreement. There ought not to be any independent moves (http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51).I know this will probably be unpopular here, but what you are describing as "Biblical Locality" sound exactly like what is practiced by the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Anglican Churches.

A bishop (one with apostolic authority) oversees all the congregations in a geographic location and appoints elders (presybters) in the specific congregations to handle the day to day work.

[Churchwork]

saint,

Biblical locality does not sound anything at all like what is practiced in the Roman Catholic, Anglican and Eastern Orthodox systems.

The reason these systems are not the same is because Biblical locality is not a national system (Anglican), nor a popery system of heirarchy exceeding the boundary of Biblical locality (Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox).

In the Ministry of apostles they have a regional center which they move out from to apoint elders of localities in their region. There is no heirarchy above the regional center. And each Biblical unit is a Biblical locality only, not a region.

Moreover, these one or more of these systems teach historicalism (amill.), calvinism or non-OSAS, among other false teachings such as a sinless Mary, interrmediary priesthood and paying money for indulgences.

A bishop is not one with apostolic authority for bishops are elders, not apostles. Apostles appoint bishops (elders). This is another difference.

Elders appointed by apostles are not to head many Biblical localities in a region. Nor do apostles have the responsibility of taking care of a Biblical locality. Nor do apostles appoint sub-elder meeting places in a locality. No! Regional apostles appoint elders to take care of ALL the meeting places of a Biblical locality, and those elders would approve all the sub-elders' meeting places within the locality because they agree to the authority of the elders appointed by apostles to take care of the whole locality. This is proper authority and submission in harmony with God's will as it was in the first century.

[Jesusong]

This is my first post!!
I look at apostles as 2 catagories.

1. Apostle - specific: The original 12 appointed by Jesus. These men had special authority in the church and this particular office is not in existence today.

2. Apostle - general: This would fall under the catagory of church planting and missionaries. Apostle means sent ones, and church planters and missionaries would qualify under this catagory. Missionaries usually are church planters in the foriegn mission fields, and to them I would look upon as Apostles for today.

[Churchwork]

This is my first post!!
I look at apostles as 2 catagories.

1. Apostle - specific: The original 12 appointed by Jesus. These men had special authority in the church and this particular office is not in existence today.

2. Apostle - general: This would fall under the catagory of church planting and missionaries. Apostle means sent ones, and church planters and missionaries would qualify under this catagory. Missionaries usually are church planters in the foriegn mission fields, and to them I would look upon as Apostles for today.

Apostles are missionaries for this is the meaning of the word. But the work of apostles is to delegate appointments and to train the elders in addition to giving the gospel, not to set up operations somewhere in foreign lands to remain there indefinitely. The apostolic age has passed and so have the original 12. But their work continues on in informal apostles who do the same work. The work should not all of a sudden stop just because the 12 have run their course. That would not be God's will to stop the Ministry of the Work for the Church. There were other apostles besides the 12 in the apostolic age of the first century. This was the Ephesus church period in which this first love was lost. Do you abide in God's word and accept those who do the same work today, who are commissioned directly by God, to appoint elders to take care of the local churches in Biblical localities?

Before this can happen again, to return to the first century way of doing things, we need agreement. Agreement begins with 2 or 3, then 12, and more after that. Let us be patient and wait for the 12 to come into agreement and not rely on independent moves.

[Jesusong]

Maybe its me, but I don't understand what you're getting at.

[Churchwork]

Jesusong,

It's you. Perhaps read to understand. I find this is a good piece to read to affect change needed in your thinking,

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/whichchurch.htm

[Churchwork]

"He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve... After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles" (1 Cor. 15.5,7).

[Guillaume Le Chat]

That "all of the Apostles" was at the ascension. It was the 12.

[Churchwork]

At the ascension there were more Apostles than just the 12, otherwise it would have said seen again of the twelve.

I am an Apostle.

http://biblocality.com/forums/faq.php?faq=37questions#faq_question18