Rapture

[biblesound]

I do not believe the church will be raptured. the church is the kingdom and is here now. it is interchangeble, before pentecost spoken of as future, after pentecost spoken of as something already in exsistence and still is today. rapture cannot be true because christ coming will be loud, not secret, every eye will see him. christ already reigning now according to scripture. revelation is symbolic, should not be taken literally.

[Churchwork]

biblesound,

Realize you do not believe the church will be raptured because you are not a Christian.

"Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess 4.17).

And at first rapture, in order to get to 3rd heaven where the throne is, an overcomer Christian will be raptured: "stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes" (Rev. 7.9).

The kingdom of heaven is in us now. The kingdom of heaven has 3 aspects: (1) outward appearance, today, with the tares and the wheat, (2) the conduct, today, of Matthew 5-7 unto rewards, and (3) not the millennium, but the reigning inthe millennium, receiving rewards.

Rapture is to happen and is true because Christ will come in the clouds to "meet the Lord in the air" just as 1 Thess. 4.17 says. First rapture is to the throne where Christ is at the throne. Then, Christ begins parousia to the clouds through the Tribulation. At the start of the 7th trumpet, which is loud, Christ does exactly what is said in 1 Thess. 4.17, meeting believers who are raptured to the air.

Then, Christ returns with His Holy Myriads (the overcoming saints who receive the reward of reigning in the millennial kingdom),

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints [holy myriads or people], to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him'" (Jude 1.14,15).

You can see tens of thousands of His saints will return with Him from the rapture, whether they were raptured at the first rapture or the rapture at the loud seventh trumpet (if they had not been raptured at first rapture). First Christ comes like a thief in the night to steal the best at first rapture just as there are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere, and firstfruits to readiness.

When Christ steps down on the mount with His own two feet in Person, every eye shall see Him for He will return just as He left. "And said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven'... "And every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen" (Acts 1.11; Rev. 1.7).

Pentecost occurred almost 2000 years ago. Christ did not return at Pentecost.

You said Christ is coming only with a loud trumpet and not like a thief also, but you disagree with God's loving Word, "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night" (1 Thess. 5.2).

First He comes secretely, then every eye shall see Him, like lightening (Matt. 24.27).

Christ is not reigning now with an iron rod, mentioned 3 times in Revelation, nothing having happened yet. Reigning with an iron rod is not the sense one gets of Christ living in us by the Holy Spirit now. Thus, Christ is not reigning on earth in the regeneration of the world (Matt. 19.28) yet, but He will when He returns and casts Satan into the pit for 1000 years (Rev. 20.3). Now, Christ lives in us by the Holy Spirit, but He is not reigning over the nations, since the god of this world is still Satan.

If He was reigning with an iron rod it would be true that the nations would NOT still war as Rev. 20.3 says "that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled." This is absolute showing that when Christ returns the nations will no longer be deceived as shown forth in Matt. 25.31-46 when His judgment comes on earth (to reign with an iron rod) which is regarding what will happen to these nations.

I am going to have to ban you because you are pretending to be a Christian. The Bible describes you as the tares in Matthew 13 (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Matthew_13.htm) and I ought not to cast pearls onto the swine. What you teach is not love. For example, not too long ago 6 million jews were murdered in just a few short years. This is not a millennial peace now of Rev. 20.4, where the lamb and the lion lay down together peacefully.

You should be ashamed of your historicalism. It is quite vile, which also blunts the most solemn warning at the end of this age so you don't think you will have to know the wrath of God in the Great Tribulation.

It is of very bad conscience to believe what you believe; it is will-worshipping the Bible withou a quickened spirit. You're just in your head, while spirit has not been regenerated.

In the book of Revelation, there are about 30 symbols (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Aids_to_Revelation.htm) of which half of them are explained right in the text of the book of Revelation itself, leaving the other half not being very difficult to interpret from various Scriptures. Therefore, when the symbols are explained (and easy to discern what they represent), it makes for a literal book. I found the book of Revelation one of the easiest books to read in the Bible. It is not so easy if you allegorize it any way you want so it can mean anything. And not only this, but it is a book for the future otherwise it would not be revelation. If it was a historical book as you think, then only learned scholars and historians could be saved.

There are many who claim Christ already returned to reign, but they are claiming false Christs, just as you are, which is not biblesound.

Also, it is doubletalk when you say in your profile "not sure" to premillennial and then argue for historicalism. Why argue for something when you are not sure? This is against point 4 under Board Etiquette. Your rejection of laying on of hands by saying "no" was also inappropriate since in the Bible there is very clear application of laying on of hands which shows unity in the church. And your rejection of overcoming in Christ saying "no" is also very wrong. These beliefs of yours disagree with the Word of God.