OSAS Scriptural Problems?

[telsa]

If OSAS means that a person becomes a son or daughter of God permanently, then I agree with the doctrine. But if OSAS means that a person cannot be sent to the lake of fire after they have accepted Christ's atonement for them, then the Scriptures disagree.

First, there is the obvious scripture of Hebrews 6. The pertinent passage reads "For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt." Why, one could ask, would this disturbing passage even be in the Bible if it were impossible for it to happen? I think I must be misunderstanding OSAS...

Revelation also has something to say on this topic, as Jesus himself immediately says, after discussing overcomers, the water of life, and making all things new, that the "cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." Why, after already covering those who aren't written the Book of Life and moving on to those who will inherit the promises, would Jesus then revisit the lake of fire with specific sins unless He meant to warn Christians that those who do such activities will be cast into the eternal fire?

And then there's Nehemiah 4:2...

I'm maintaining that a son or daughter of God can be cast into the lake of fire, but will be withdrawn after their sin is accounted for and ultimately placed into the New Jerusalem, albeit with severe dis-figuration and burns. But I don't consider that being saved, so I disagree with OSAS.

[Churchwork]

OSAS as your profile question asks of you (which you answered "No" to), it means that a person once saved can never lose it. Not that some don't lose it, but nobody can lose it once saved. You don't know this life. It is foreign to you.

Scriptures disagree with you for it says those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Salvation is not by works, thus, it can never be lost once given.

Those enlightened in the passage you quote in Hebrews 6 does not mean they can lose salvation but that the process unto salvation can't be repeated. It is a one time event that's the point. Let this solve your confusion. A person can't lose salvation to go to Hell. This agrees with John 10.28. Your view does not.

The Revelation passage you quote is not Hebrews 6. Don't confuse the two. Satan mingles two things not the same as one, for he is the author of confusion, and you do his bidding.

What's wrong with Neh. 4.2?

There is nothing in Scripture that says the saved go to Hell with the unsaved. A loving and righteous God would never send a believer there. What is true is that God will burn of the dross of one's false works by Hell, but that doesn't mean a person goes to Hell. A carnal Christian loses rewards of reigning with Christ for 1000 years in outer darkness, but outer darkness never has any fire or furnace about it. It is like being in a forest looking into a brightly lit cabin not allowed to enter and join the feast inside. Not until the overcomers inside come out can the non-overcomer Christian go with them to the New City.

How strange your theory, unsupported by Scripture, that a person who goes to the New Jerusalem is not considered saved.

You are going to Hell because you will never repent. As C. S. Lewis said you lock yourself in Hell from the inside for forever. Don't you know you have already eternally separated yourself from God forever? You've long since decided in a lie. Prove me wrong. Repent of your false teaching and false Christ.

Let this record of your condition stand the test of time and discerned by the Holy Spirit.

Hell is eternal separation for the unsaved. They don't get to go to the New City. They prefer for eternity to be in the place called Hell that is without God's presence. This is what you want and where you are going. In your profile question to the existence of such a place you disagreed and answered "No". These questions reveal your heart condition.

Anyone and everyone who enter the New City are saved. This is irrevocable and undeniable. Any who enter the New City never went to Hell and never will. We will no longer shed a tear for those who do including you.

May people be helped by seeing the lie you prefer.

p.s. the problem is you think; you're in your head not your spirit. I know.

[jordandelp]

Nehemiah 4:2 is a spiritual testimony against OSAS as people are "stones" in the spiritual sense--1 Peter 2:5--and they must be revived from the heaps of rubbish--the chaff that is burned with unquenchable fire--because they are burned--they have been cast into the lake of fire and will be revived once they have suffered in accord with their sins.

OSAS isn't Scriptural, and even Revelation speaks of overcomers being warned by Jesus to stay away from the sins that will get you cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 21:7-8.

Believers are said to never perish because for the vast majority of believers that is true. But there is an exception to every rule in the Bible. The Lord hasn't shown me where in the OT that that rule is revealed, but it holds true. And just as everyone who professes with the mouth and believes with the heart will be saved, so also will all those who commit the sins of Revelation 21:8 be cast into the lake of fire (although there is even grace here as well, as it says in Job 33:29.

[Churchwork]

Neh. 4.2 says "And he spake before his brethren and the army of Samaria, and said, What do these feeble Jews? will they fortify themselves? will they sacrifice? will they make an end in a day? will they revive the stones out of the heaps of the rubbish which are burned?"

Where does this passage say a person who is born-again and has eternal life can lose salvation?

Rev. 21.7,8 says "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Again, where does this passage say a person who is born-again, having eternal life, can lose salvation? All believers "overcometh" though not at the same time; hence, the reward of believers that overcometh to return with Christ (Jude 14,15) and reign over the nations (Rev. 2.26,27) for 1000 years (Rev. 20.4-6) before the New City and New Earth commence. Christians who lose this reward go to "outer darkness" which is outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years. I have several analogies to help you with picturing this. Just ask.

John 10.28 is clear those who are born-again "they shall never perish." I am born-again so I can never lose eternal life. Since you think you can it only shows that you were never saved and violate Scripture which says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast. Insufficient works are unto loss of rewards not to lose eternal life.

There is no exception to this rule: initial salvation is not by works, lest anyone should boast, and those who were born-again can never lose eternal life.

Since you worship a false Christ of non-OSAS (i.e. salvation by works) you will surely burn in the lake of fire for all eternity. No man's works or self-strength is good enough.

It might help for you to think of it this way which is actually true. You are too selfish to give your life to Christ the One who keeps always those He gives new life to and the Holy Spirit indwelling. You would rather worship a god where you can be saved today, lose it tomorrow, get it back on Friday, lose it on Saturday then get it back on Monday. It is almost like reincarnation of virtually endless chances and arrogant in your flesh thinking you can save yourself or keep yourself saved. There is no humility in that. It's like you have one foot in the door and one foot out, not sure if you want to be a child of God or not.

You have no reverence for the God who when He gives eternal life (John 17.3) it always sticks in His infinite foreknowledge. Otherwise, He wouldn't give it in the first place. Your god is unable to do this. You are Satanic making a mockery of God's infinite foreknowledge, love, promise and ability to keep everyone of His elect. It can't be comforting for you to worship a god where tomorrow at 3:30 pm you might be unsaved from the false salvation you currently, deludedly, think you are under.

What you teach is straight from the great harlot of religious Rome, the Roman Catholic Church. The Vatican will be nuked (Rev. 17.16) in the coming years and according to the Malachy Prophecy along with Calvinist enterprises that Jesus will end with the word of His mouth when He returns. God hates the harlot, for she makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications and false teachings (14.8).

Pray on this as I pray for your understanding.