Trinity [Archive] - Christian Forums

Nottheworld

08-20-2012, 12:28 PM

It's impossible for me to see unitarianism or oneness in the Scriptures, for never did Jesus ever say He was the Father, but always did the perfect will of the Father by the Spirit. Before the foundations of the world the 1st Person, 2nd Person and 3rd Person of the Triune God agreed the 2nd Person would enter creation and atone for sins. None can ever see the Father (He is spirit), but we can see the Son. And the Spirit indwells those who are born-again.

The Trinity is not 1 x 1 x 1 because that is saying 1 of 1 and 1 of (1 of 1). It would be like saying there is 1 of a certain thing then saying there is 1 set of 1 of those certain things. Rather, God is 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1. See God is relational and a personal in His Triune Being. 1/3 is personal with the other two 1/3. Our triune nature though not independent wills have 3 distinct functions of body, soul (mind, will, emotion) and spirit (intuition, communion, conscience).

The Holy Spirit is spoken of as a Person: "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come" (John 16.13). And again, "While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, 'Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them'" (Acts 13.2).

In the OT the 3 men that came before Abraham represented the 3 Persons of the Godhead. What is not as clear in the OT becomes more clear in the rest of the word of God. All 3 Persons of the Trinity are personal.

The word of God in the OT is the manifestation of the Messiah who was to atone for sins in Isaiah 53. Draw the distinction between the Word of God Jesus, the word of Jesus (the words He spoke), and the word of God, that is, the 66 books of the Bible that embody all that God is and the full revelation of God.

So when someone says what is the word of God? I show them the 66 books of the Bible. When they say who is the word of God? I say Jesus for He is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And then when someone asks what were the words that He spoke? I quote Jesus' specific words.

Nottheworld

08-20-2012, 05:55 PM

What helps me is to appreciate that God is infinitely greater than us so for God to show us what He is and who He is, He must do so in the best way possible and to the best of our ability to understand Him. He does this by showing that He is Trinitarian: perfect obedience of the Son to the Father and by the Spirit in perfect guidance to do will of the Father and the Son.

Jesus emptied Himself of His independent attributes to be in the likeness of men and to be the perfect sacrifice.

"Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient [even] unto death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven and [things] on earth and [things] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2.5-11).

“As regards to the Godhead, the Son and the Father are co-equal; but His being the Lord is rewarded Him by God. The Lord Jesus Christ was made Lord only after He emptied Himself. His deity derives from who He is, for His being God is His inherent nature. His being Lord, though, issues out of what He has done. He was exalted and rewarded by God to be the Lord only after He forsook His glory and maintained the perfect role of obedience. As regards Himself, He is God; as regards reward, He is Lord. His Lordship did not exist originally in the Godhead, but was equal with the 1st Person.

The passage in Philippians 2 is most difficult to explain, for it is most controversial besides being most holy. Let's remove our shoes and stand on holy ground as we review the Scripture. It seems as though at the beginning a council was held within the Godhead. God conceived a plan to create the universe. In that plan the Godhead agreed to have authority represented by the Father. But authority cannot exist alone. God must therefore find obedience in the universe. Two living beings were to be created: angels (spirits) and men (living souls).

According to His foreknowledge God foresaw the rebellion of the angels and the fall of men; hence He was unable to establish His authority in angels or in the Adamic race. Consequently, within the Godhead perfect accord was reached that authority would be reached by the obedience of the Son. From this come the distinctive operations of God the Father and God the Son. One day God the Son emptied himself, and being born in the likeness of men. He became the symbol of obedience. Inasmuch as rebellion came from the created beings, so obedience must now be established in the created being that being men. Man sinned and rebelled; therefore the authority of God must be erected on man’s obedience. This explains why the Lord came to the world and was made as one of the created men”. (Spiritual Authority (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Authority.htm), CFP white cover, 47-48, Watchman Nee)

"Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" (v.5). "Who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men" (vv.6,7). The prerogatives of Christ—that which is legally and rightfully His—is His being in the form of God and being equal with God. Yet He "emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men." What, then, you ask, is the mind of Christ? It is to do what He did: to forfeit one’s rightful privileges. Perhaps you are concerned about how you should be treated by other people. But Christ does not hold on to what is rightfully His. He took the attitude of mind that His being on an equality with God was not something to be grasped after, but instead He emptied himself and took the form of a bondslave. Such is the mind of Christ.

Jesus said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10.30); on the other hand He also said this: "the Father is greater than I" (John 14.28). Is there any inherent gradation of power and authority between and among the members in the Godhead? Certainly not. And hence the consideration of greater or smaller here cannot have reference to that which one is born with; rather, it is something that is willed or desired or submitted to gladly. The Father sends the Son, and the Son sends the Spirit. And such a submissive arrangement is according to the sublime humility to be found in the Godhead.

"The form of a servant" are words which speak of the lowliness of our Lord; "the likeness of men" is a phrase which signifies the human restriction our Lord takes upon himself. The form of a servant is presented in contrast to the form of God, while man is presented in contrast to God. God is not restricted by time and space, by food and rest. The form of God is glorious, whereas the form of a servant is lowly. The mind of Christ is therefore expressed in His willingness to humble himself and to suffer restriction.

"And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross" (v.8). The obedience of Christ is profoundly demonstrated in His obeying His equal, not in His obeying His superior. His obedience is from the heart and goes all the way to the death of the cross. (From Glory to Glory, CFP white cover, 140,141,42, Watchman Nee)

Herein do we see resurrection life. Without the supernatural life of God there can be no resurrection after death. The Lord Jesus could go through death and yet be raised because resident in Him is God’s uncreated life. This life cannot be destroyed: it instead will always emerge into the fullness and glory of resurrection. Jesus poured out His soul to death and committed His spirit (in which was God’s life) back into the hands of God. His death set Him free from soul life and released God’s spiritual life unto greater splendor.

It is difficult indeed to understand why God, upon transmitting His life to us, then requires us to experience co-death with Christ so that His life may be resurrected in us. This is nonetheless God’s law of life. And once possessing God’s life, we then are empowered to periodically go through death and continue to come out alive. By continuously losing our soul life in death, we may continuously gain more abundantly and gloriously of God’s life in resurrection.

God’s aim is to take our soul life through death in company with His Own life in us; whenever His life in us is resurrected in our daily experience our soul also is raised with Him and produces fruit to eternity. This is one of the most profound lessons in spiritual life. The Holy Spirit alone can unfold to us the necessity of death as well as that of resurrection. May the Spirit of revelation make us understand how much our spiritual experience shall suffer if we do not hate our natural life and deliver it to death. Only when our soul accompanied by God’s indwelling life passes through death and resurrection can we bear spiritual fruit and keep it for life eternal. (The Spiritual Man (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm), CFP white cover, Vol. 1, Part 3, 192)

"By passing through death it affords God an opportunity to communicate His life to us. Not to lose that soul life in death shall mean great loss for the believer; but in losing it he will save it for eternity." (TSM, Vol. 1, 190).

Recall the soul has the functions of mind, will and emotion. Our spirit has the functions of intuition, communion and conscience. And our body has its 5 senses. Our spirit gives us God-consciousness, our soul self-consciousness and our body world-consciousness. It is one thing to know this intellectually or soulically and completely another to experience the dividing of our spirit, soul and body (Heb. 4.12) to walk after the spirit first and foremost (1 Thess. 5.23). Such dividing is needed to know the laws and functions of our soul distinctly from our spirit's functions to walk by the latter. And the way to do that is a deeper reading of Scripture.