The Rapture in 2036, The Second Coming in 2043

[Aleksandar]

Hi, everybody!
I would write something what my friend Paul from Serbia wrote five months ago about when the Rapture and Second Coming could happen. You can comment it, supporting or making critics, and so on.

[Aleksandar]

Here is his text:

“I believe that Rapture will be on the feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) in the 1st year of Tribulation which is the year of the revelation of the Antichrist and 7th year before the Second Coming in glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I also believe that we don't know day and hour because we don't exactly know when the new moon will be, but that we do know the year of the Rapture and the Second coming because the God revealed it. God revealed that the year of the Rapture of the Church will be in 2036/37. year and that the year of Second coming of Jesus Christ in glory will be in 2043/44. year.
How God revealed that year?
Jesus said: "32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." Matt.24 (KJV). As you know "fig tree", which is fleshly Israel, started to be "tender, and putteth forth leaves" on May 14th 1948. From that year, says Jesus, "generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled". The key word here is the word "generation", and how much years does it consist. The most famous biblical definition of the term "generation" is:
1. in king David's Psalm 90. "All our days pass away under your wrath; we finish our years with a moan. 10Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away." (NIV), where the "generation" is defined as a period of 70 and 80 years. According to this, years of the Second coming and Rapture are:
1948 + 70 = 2018 (year of the Second coming) ==> 2012. (year of the Rapture); or
1948 + 80 = 2028 (year of the Second coming) ==> 2022. (year of the Rapture).
However, Jesus in Matthew 24 also says: "37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." So, Jesus didn't say "But as the days of David were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." He said "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." So, what is the generation that didn’t pass in the days of Noah "till all these things were fulfilled". That is the generation of three Noah's son – Japheth, Shem and Ham. According to apocryphal Bible – The Book of Jasher (which is mentioned twice in non-apocryphal Bible – in Joshua 10:13 and 2nd Samuel 1:18 - sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm (http://sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm)), second Noah's son Shem was born in 98 years before the Flood (Jasher 5:16-18). Japheth was probably born 100 years before the Flood and Ham, youngest Noah's son, was probably born 96 years before the Flood. Years of the youngest brother, Ham, are here significant, because they are the lower border of how much the term "generation", from the days of Noah that didn't pass, actually is. So, we may assume that Ham had 96 years and that term "generation that shall not pass" is the period of 96 years. According to this, years of the Second coming and the Rapture are:
1947/48 + 96 = 2043/44. (year of the Second coming) ==> 2036/37. (year of the Rapture);
Ham is also father of Canaan who was cursed, so when Jesus says "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" it, also, means that wicked generation, spiritual seed of Ham, cursed spiritual seed of Ham, ungodly spiritual seed of Ham, antichristian spiritual seed of Ham, "shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled", i.e. that generation will last only another 96 years from the 1948.

Confirmations for 2036/37. – 2043/44. Date
I - 2nd Ezra 14:10-12
In behalf of this interpretation, stands also another place in the apocryphal Bible – 2nd Ezra 14: "10 For the world hath lost his youth, and the times begin to wax old. 11 For the world is divided into twelve parts, and the ten parts of it are gone already, and half of a tenth part: 12 And there remaineth that which is after the half of the tenth part." (sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/es2014.htm (http://sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/es2014.htm))
9,5 parts are gone, and that is the time from creation of the world till the day in which this revelation was given to Ezra. Another 2,5 parts remained to be fulfilled till the Second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2,5 parts = 2500 years
According to 2nd Ezra 1:3 this revelation from God was given to Ezra in the time of Persian king Artaxerxes ruling. Among historians there is consensus that he began to reign in 465/64BC. That year will be the earliest possible year from which 2,5 remained parts should be counted:
465BC = - 464 ==> 2500 - 464 = 2036. year (It is "- 464" because of the BC - AD translation)

Also, in 2nd Ezra it is written that apocryphal book of Bible – 2nd Ezra, is written in Babylon and according to non-apocryphal Book of Ezra 7:6-7, Ezra returned to Jerusalem in 7th year of the reign of the King Artaxerxes: "6 this Ezra came up from Babylon. He was a teacher well versed in the Law of Moses, which the LORD, the God of Israel, had given. The king had granted him everything he asked, for the hand of the LORD his God was on him. 7 Some of the Israelites, including priests, Levites, musicians, gatekeepers and temple servants, also came up to Jerusalem in the seventh year of King Artaxerxes." (NIV) That means that last possible year from which 2,5 remained parts should be counted is 457BC:

465BC - 7 = 458BC
458BC = - 457 ==> 2500 - 457 = 2043. year
In the Book of 2nd Ezra it is not written exactly in which year of the reign of the king Artaxerxes the revelation was given, but that it was just in the time of his reign, and that it was in Babylon, before Ezra returned in Jerusalem. That means that remained 2,5 parts shows period 2036/37. – 2043/44. as a period of last seven years till the end, i.e. till the Rapture and Second Coming.
I believe also that it is not accidentally that it was not said in which year of the reign of king Artaxerxes the revelation was given to Ezra, because in that way it is pointed at whole period of seven years (2036. – 2043.), and not exactly on one particular year, i.e. it is pointed when Tribulation will begin and when it will be the end of the Tribulation.
……………………………………………………………………………………………
III "As it was in the days of Noah"
Another confirmation for the date 2036/37 – 2043/44 rather than 2012 – 2018 or 2022 – 2028 date is length of man's live in our time. It is well known that people today live longer than in 19th, 18th, 17th etc. Length of human life today often can reach 100 years, not just 70 or 80 like it was from the time of King David to these last days (second half of 20th and 21st century). That means that proper interpretation of the term "generation" from Matt. 24 is the length of the three Noah's sons Japheth (100), Shem (98) and Ham (96), and not that from Psalm 90.
Age of 70 (common); of 80 (common); of 90 (common/it can be seen); of 100 (it can be seen; example: Ljubica Pešukić (Serbia) - 106); of 114 (it can be seen; example: Walter Breuning (USA); of 115 (it can be seen; example: Christian Mortensen, 115y. i 252 d. ≈ 116); of 122 (it can be seen; example: Jeanne Calment (France)); of 129 (it can be seen; example: Habib Mian (India); Antisa Kvičava (Georgia)) (all data can be verified on internet).

(70 + 80 + 90 + 100 + 114 + 115 + 122 + 129) / 8 = 102 ≈ 100 years

So, "as it was in the days of Noah", not "as it was in the days of David" concerning the term "generation".

IV "... but the end is not yet"

>>4And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. /…/ 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[b] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.<< (Matt. 24:4,6-8 NKJV)
>>5And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. /…/ 7 But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such things must happen, but the end is not yet. 8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles.[a] These are the beginnings of sorrows.<< (Mark 13:5, 7-8 NKJV)
>>And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore[b] do not go after them. 9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.”<< (Luke 21:8-9 NKJV)
Despite the current economic situation in whole world and especially despite current political situation in the Middle East "the end will not come immediately", "the end is not yet" and "all these are the beginning of sorrows". The end will come in 2036/37 – 2043/44, i.e. through 24 – 31 years. Because of that relatively long period it will look that "the bridegroom was delayed" (Matt.25:5) and all virgins will begin to "slumber and sleep" and many of them will not have oil in their lamps.
But bridegroom will not delay; He will come exactly on time – in 5992/93-5999/6000 year from the creation of Adam and his fall.
Yes, God revealed the time of His Second coming, but He didn't reveal the time of our personal death. It is the reason why we have to be always sober and ready. (Good website that helps very much to be spiritual sober is divinerevelations.info/. (http://divinerevelations.info/))“

This is part of what he wrote about this topic, but I think it’s enough at this moment.

I wish all of you all the best from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Aleksandar

[Faithful]

The word "generation" in Matt. 24.34 is not a physical generation but a wicked generation which continues to this day.

The reason I can't allow the Tribulation to begin as late as 2036 as you suggest is because I know there is no conventional oil left in the world by then so any battle will take place long before then.

The markets peaked in 2000. It has been 12 years now. When the markets collapsed in 1929, WWII was just 10 years away.

2,520 days never refers to years. It is strictly a time period from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av. The year-day theory is false for there are not 360,000 years of the millennial kingdom. The reason we exclude these "other books" from God's word is because they do no agree with the spirit of God's word.

I still abide in the Tribulation timeline for 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.

Ps. 90.10 is still the preeminent verse which refers to 75 years, and "right at the door" (Matt. 24.33) still refers to within a lifetime so the Tribulation must be completed by 2022.

The 120th Jubilee is 2015. And there are seven sets of seven from June 7, 1967 when Israel entered Jerusalem to the Day of Atonement Sept. 23, 2015. There will be seven sets of seven, double fulfilment, from the declaration to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple which comes to 7 x 7 x 360 = 17,640 days.

If the first rapture according to readiness does not take place Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 then I will revert to "when you shall see these things" (Matt. 24.33) and verse 32 as an analogy much like Matt. 24.28 referring to when the Antichrist is in the Temple (Matt. 24.15, 1 Thess. 2.4) and not to when Israel is a nation again.

[Aleksandar]

"A period of 40 or 100 years is considered to be a generation in the bible." - http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/cn1c-360calendar-40year_cycles.htm, http://www.360calendar.com/bible-prophecy-360-days-calendar-4.htm
A period of 96 years too: http://www.360calendar.com/bible-prophecy-360-days-calendar-8.htm

War can be led for oil, water, food, etc. And something we think is close to be consumed can be suddenly found somewhere.

[Faithful]

Ps. 90.10 disagrees with you, for a lifetime is 70 years but with strength 80. We are not concerned with a generation which is 30 or 40 years on average. We are addressing when is a reasonable time for Jesus to return "right at the door" (Matt. 24.33) which would be within a lifetime, not a generation. You're confused.

There is no immediate and foreseeable resource to replace oil. Thus, when oil goes to $200 and beyond, the nations will congregate in the middle east with 200 million military units (Rev. 9.16).

[Aleksandar]

Ps. 90.10 disagrees with you, for a lifetime is 70 years but with strength 80. We are not concerned with a generation which is 30 or 40 years on average. We are addressing when is a reasonable time for Jesus to return "right at the door" (Matt. 24.33) which would be within a lifetime, not a generation. You're confused.
I have mentioned 96 years too, not only 40 years. A reasonable time for Jesus to return "right at the door" (Matt. 24.33) can be 96 years, 70 years (and so on) after 1948. But, when we see other arguments, it is in 96. year from 1948. year. Generation of 96, 100 years and similarly is lifetime "as in the days of Noah" and it is generation which didn't pass until flood happened. So it will be in our time.


There is no immediate and foreseeable resource to replace oil. Thus, when oil goes to $200 and beyond, the nations will congregate in the middle east with 200 million military units (Rev. 9.16).
I have answered this in my precedent post.

'Faithful', I appreciate what you write, but I think you are not right about this. You can be wrong, we can be wrong, time will show who was right if we are alive then.

I wish you all the best from The Lord Jesus,
Aleksandar

[Faithful]

I have mentioned 96 years too, not only 40 years. A reasonable time for Jesus to return "right at the door" (Matt. 24.33) can be 96 years, 70 years (and so on) after 1948. But, when we see other arguments, it is in 96. year from 1948. year. Generation of 96, 100 years and similarly is lifetime "as in the days of Noah" and it is generation which didn't pass until flood happened. So it will be in our time.
96 years is not the Biblically average length of a lifetime. The reasonable time for Jesus to return within a lifetime is 75 years (Ps. 90.10) after 1948. The age of 100 years applies to those who live during the millennial reign of Christ on earth. The days of Noah refer to everyone partying it up unaware of what was about to happen. I appreciate your post since it makes my posts stronger since your alternative view doesn't really gel very well. Matt. 24.34 is not referring to a physical generation but a wicked generation which continues to this day. And a generation in context here is not referring to a lifetime either. A lifetime is 70 to 80 years whereas a generation is 30 to 40 years, that is, when people procreate. They don't procreate at 70 or 80 years, but 30 years.


I have answered this in my precedent post.

'Faithful', I appreciate what you write, but I think you are not right about this. You can be wrong, we can be wrong, time will show who was right if we are alive then.

I wish you all the best from The Lord Jesus,
Aleksandar
It is a simple math calculation. Industry reports say there are less than 900 billion barrels of oil left in the world. At an average of 100 million barrels a day, all the conventional oil is gone by 2035 (we could be underestimating this too if the average turns out to be more than 100 million a day). Any war that takes place will not be at the last drop but a good 15 years before that as the nations must plan for this resource deficiency. Hence, we see the time of the 6th and 7th trumpets run from Aug. 20, 2020 to Aug. 7, 2022.. First rapture is Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 and Jesus steps down on the mount of olives Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022 which is the 2,520th day. Praise the Lord!

This is the evidence. Let us abide in the clear evidence until shown otherwise.

[Aleksandar]

The age of 100 years is mentioned in connection with those who live during the millennial reign of Christ on earth, but not only them. And you are speaking about 70 or 80 years as lifetime but not about 96 or 100 years which were years of life that many people (as Noah’s sons) reached before the Flood.

You have mentioned 2035. (it’s just one year before 2036.:smile-new:). And it is not that “any war that takes place will not be at the last drop but a good 15 years before that as the nations must plan for this resource deficiency” must be so. Because, industry can hide some data, some oil (or other) resource can be find meanwhile, etc.

Beside argument from The Bible (2 Ezra) I have mentioned earlier, I’ll add another argument from my friend:



Then God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years



- Genesis 1:14



II. 1. - Bible in stone – Three pyramids of Giza


I wrote "Bible in stone" because three pyramids of Giza are indeed monuments that were made by direct revelation of God, just like Moses made the Sanctuary on the Mt. Sinai. Those pyramids consists in their inspired measurements prophetic messages about the Creation of the world and about the time of the End of this age.

[1] (http://biblocality.com/forums/#_ftn1)>> The three pyramids of Giza are located on Earth just as the three stars in the belt of Orion.
From the western side of the middle pyramid, that corresponds to the middle star of Orion's belt, Alnilam (εOri), there are 91 units or 91 "rooms".
These 91 units show that this star will be by 91° away (1 unit = 1°) from North Celestial Pole at the time when the builders of the Great Pyramid[2] (http://biblocality.com/forums/#_ftn2) come back from the sky on the Earth and it will be the second coming of Jesus Christ and the end of the world. This will happen between 2000 - 2070 AD.
Current position of the star Alnilam (2010 AD) is 91° 9' 20.1'' from the North Celestial Pole. Exactly 91° = 2037 AD (2036/37 AD)
Alnilam (εOri) declination (distance from the sky equator):
Declination 2200 BC: - 23.464°
Declination 2000 AD: - 01° 12' 07''
Declination 2037 AD: - 1° = 91° from the Celestial North Pole <<[3]

(http://biblocality.com/forums/#_ftn3) Notes: - Orion's belt is mentioned in the Bible, in the Book of Job: "Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades, or loose the belt of Orion? 32 Can you bring out Mazzaroth[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%2038&version=NKJV#fen-NKJV-13826a#fen-NKJV-13826a)] in its season? Or can you guide the Great Bear with its cubs? 33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you set their dominion over the earth?" (Job 38:31-33, NKJV)
- Alnilam is 30th brightest star in the sky (the 4th brightest in Orion) and as a blue/white supergiant it is the most powerful bright star in the sky.
- In astrology Alnilam is linked with resurrection.

[1] (http://biblocality.com/forums/#_ftnref1) Bold is mine

[2] (http://biblocality.com/forums/#_ftnref2) Adam his son Set, Enoch and other pre-Flood patriarchs

[3] (http://biblocality.com/forums/#_ftnref3) Petko Nikolic Vidusa, The Calendar – from the beginning to the end, Canada, 2010, p. 58-59. → http://www.scribd.com/doc/38572867/The-calendar-from-the-beginning-to-the-end

[Faithful]

The best external evidence we have are from oil industry reports that tell us at 100 million barrels a day conventional oil is all gone by 2035 so this would not agree with your theory. It shows any battle that takes place will be a good 15 years before as the nations need to plan for the future.

Noah's sons are not in view here; moreover, many peoples' ages are given both longer and shorter than 100 years in the Bible. 100 years though is the specific length everyone should live to during the millennial kingdom the Bible says. Whereas today in this age (Rev. 6) these past 20 centuries a person should live 70 to 80 years. Obviously, with the presence of Jesus on earth, our lifespans extend. Also, Jesus must return sooner than expected for the sake of the elect. How gracious God is!

The pyramids, "other books," and year-day theory (i.e. misapplying the 1260, 1290, 1335 and 2520 days) exist as a deception to misguide you to take your eye off when Jesus actually returns. They will lead you down many false corridors and angles to expect His delay in coming when He said He would return "right at the door" within a lifetime from when Israel is a nation again (Matt. 24.32,33).

In the next couple of years you will see oil over $200 then $300 a barrel. There is no greater trigger for mankind to really show its true colors as it positions itself over the greatest resource the world has ever known to move commodities. The big bottom for oil is soon upon us, if not already, somewhere in here from $50 to $75.

[Aleksandar]

The best external evidence we have are from oil industry reports that tell us at 100 million barrels a day conventional oil is all gone by 2035 so this would not agree with your theory. It shows any battle that takes place will be a good 15 years before as the nations need to plan for the future...
In the next couple of years you will see oil over $200 then $300 a barrel. There is no greater trigger for mankind to really show its true colors as it positions itself over the greatest resource the world has ever known to move commodities. The big bottom for oil is soon upon us, if not already, somewhere in here from $50 to $75.
Shortage of oil really can be cause of big war(s), but it need not to be. And, even if it will (probably), no one can surely know if someone will find some oil well which one didn't expect to find.


Noah's sons are not in view here
But God said: "as it was in days of Noah so it will be in those days".

... moreover, many peoples' ages are given both longer and shorter than 100 years in the Bible.
But, also many peoples' ages are given both longer and shorter than 70 or 80 years in the Bible.

100 years though is the specific length everyone should live to during the millennial kingdom the Bible says. Whereas today in this age (Rev. 6) these past 20 centuries a person should live 70 to 80 years. Obviously, with the presence of Jesus on earth, our lifespans extend.
Many people in 21st century reach and will reach 100 and more years (as in the Noah's days).


Also, Jesus must return sooner than expected for the sake of the elect. How gracious God is!
I think that what God said in Mat. 24 about shortening the time for the sake of the elect, regards to that time will pass faster (even today time passes much faster than earlier, but in those times of Great Tribulation it will be much more, i.e. the most expressed).


The pyramids, "other books," and year-day theory (i.e. misapplying the 1260, 1290, 1335 and 2520 days) exist as a deception to misguide you to take your eye off when Jesus actually returns. They will lead you down many false corridors and angles to expect His delay in coming when He said He would return "right at the door" within a lifetime from when Israel is a nation again (Matt. 24.32,33).

It is not just "pyramids". Those ones are pyramids made by Adam, his son Set, Enoch and other pre-Flood patriarchs and are in connection with stars (mentioned in my precedent post) which about "God said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years" (Genesis 1:14 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Genesis%201.14)). Those stones are that what Jesus said: "I tell you, if these were silent,the very stones would cry out." (Luke 19:40)
And it is not just "other books". It is The Bible (2 Ezra), The Holy Scripture, The Word of God.
Yes, there is deception to expect Lord's delay in coming, but also deception to expect Lord's coming earlier then it will be. Because, as I wrote earlier, after many missed dates, it will look that "the bridegroom was delayed" (Matt.25:5 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Matt.25.5)) and all virgins will begin to "slumber and sleep" and many of them will not have oil in their lamps.

I respect what you write about 2015.-2022. period. Earlier, beside possibility for rapture in a few decades, I was also leaving a big possibility that the Rapture will happen in 2015. year and the Second Coming in 2022. year the most because of the mark of the beast in form of electronic documents (e.g. universal electronic cards in Russia are planned to be mandatory in 2014. or 2015. year, etc.) and even on body. Also, because of Tetrad in 2014. and 2015. on the Lord's holiday. But, when I read and analyzed what my friend wrote about 2036/37. AD and 2043/44. AD I saw that all fits. So, I think that probably some wars will happen in 2014. and 2015. (e.g. in the Middle East, maybe Ezekiel 38,39 as prototype of Gog and Magog war at the end of Christ's millennium, though Ezekiel 38,39 perhaps could be fulfilled even after 2014. or 2015. year) and maybe some other events and all of that and other things that will happen in later years will make impossible for New World Order to make mandatory the mark of the beast for all the world until 2036. year. And this:
http://www.helium.com/items/2078149-astronomers-now-predict-killer-asteroid-will-hit-earth-in-2036
will be one of the trumpets of Revelation. Tetrad in 2043/44 AD will announce the Lord's day.

All the best,
Aleksandar

[Faithful]

Shortage of oil really can be cause of big war(s), but it need not to be. And, even if it will (probably), no one can surely know if someone will find some oil well which one didn't expect to find.
All the major wars in history were over resources, and today's major resource which won't be replenished is oil, the most important mankind has ever encountered. There has not been a major oil find since the 60's. And even if we did find another which is impossible, it would only scratch the surface.


But God said: "as it was in days of Noah so it will be in those days".
As in Noah's days is not in Noah's sons' days, but it has to do with how everyone was drinking and marrying oblivious to the fact a great flood was coming that Noah warned about.


But, also many peoples' ages are given both longer and shorter than 70 or 80 years in the Bible.
It is about how long a person should live if he stays spiritual and healthy--70 to 80 years. God never said a person should live nearly 100 years before His return though there are always exceptions of course.


Many people in 21st century reach and will reach 100 and more years (as in the Noah's days).
You're still missing the point. It is an average that most people should live 70 to 80 years before the millennial kingdom; and in the millennial kingdom people should live to be 100. This did not occur in Noah's day, but in Noah's day a person should live to at least 75 years to at least meet this standard God has set.


I think that what God said in Mat. 24 about shortening the time for the sake of the elect, regards to that time will pass faster (even today time passes much faster than earlier, but in those times of Great Tribulation it will be much more, i.e. the most expressed).
Jesus will only allow 7 years for the Tribulation commensurate with Daniel's final seven for Israel. He cuts it short. He won't allow it to extend 14 years or 21 years.


It is not just "pyramids". Those ones are pyramids made by Adam, his son Set, Enoch and other pre-Flood patriarchs and are in connection with stars (mentioned in my precedent post) which about "God said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years" (Genesis 1:14). Those stones are that what Jesus said: "I tell you, if these were silent,the very stones would cry out." (Luke 19:40)
Adam never made any pyramids. The stones in Jerusalem are not pyramids. How silly. That ancient peoples could build pyramids that point to certain stars is no miracle. It is really easy to do. The signs in the heavens are that of Joel 2.31, Acts 2.20, Rev. 6.12 which occur before the Tribulation starts; that is, the Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 Solar eclipse and the 2014/15 feast Tetrad.


And it is not just "other books". It is The Bible (2 Ezra), The Holy Scripture, The Word of God. Yes, there is deception to expect Lord's delay in coming, but also deception to expect Lord's coming earlier then it will be. Because, as I wrote earlier, after many missed dates, it will look that "the bridegroom was delayed" (Matt.25:5) and all virgins will begin to "slumber and sleep" and many of them will not have oil in their lamps.
Ezra 2 is not one of the 66 books of God's word so it is one of those "other books" not of God's word. That's where Roman Catholics falter as they add and take away from God's word (Rev. 22.18,19). Those who are notorious for missed dates are the year-day proponents like the Jehovah Witnesses and 7th Day Adventists even Aristotle. The Lord could have returned earlier from when Israel became a nation, but chose not to because Israel needed more time to develop as a nation. He delayed so that Rev. 6.12 could be fulfilled 2010-15 before the Tribulation starts.


I respect what you write about 2015.-2022. period. Earlier, beside possibility for rapture in a few decades, I was also leaving a big possibility that the Rapture will happen in 2015. year and the Second Coming in 2022. year the most because of the mark of the beast in form of electronic documents (e.g. universal electronic cards in Russia are planned to be mandatory in 2014. or 2015. year, etc.) and even on body. Also, because of Tetrad in 2014. and 2015. on the Lord's holiday. But, when I read and analyzed what my friend wrote about 2036/37. AD and 2043/44. AD I saw that all fits.
Based on everything you have shown me for your alternate dates, I find no reason for you to hold onto them because I have given the reasons why they are not viable. You must challenge the data I provide that denounces your dates, otherwise you cling to something that has evidence against it. Nothing really fits for your alternate dates. It's too ad hoc, lacks plausibility, explanatory scope and power.


So, I think that probably some wars will happen in 2014. and 2015. (e.g. in the Middle East, maybe Ezekiel 38,39 as prototype of Gog and Magog war at the end of Christ's millennium, though Ezekiel 38,39 perhaps could be fulfilled even after 2014. or 2015. year) and maybe some other events and all of that and other things that will happen in later years will make impossible for New World Order to make mandatory the mark of the beast for all the world until 2036. year. And this:
http://www.helium.com/items/2078149-astronomers-now-predict-killer-asteroid-will-hit-earth-in-2036

will be one of the trumpets of Revelation. Tetrad in 2043/44 AD will announce the Lord's day.r
I believe Ez. 38 & 39 is partly the Tribulation and partly the Gog and Magog situation at the end of the millennial reign, similar to how Christ's first coming and second coming fulfill His purpose but separated by nearly 2000 years.

The first run by that asteroid at earth in 2029 will be the closest at about 25,000 miles which is within satellite range, but scientists are virtually certain it will miss. And its return to earth 7 years later will by very far away. It's already proven and predicted. Think of 2012 and 2029-2036 as great distractions. In fact, so much hype exists for these two periods, I would not put it past Satan to have orchestrated these events to cause people to take their eye off of the Day of the Lord which begins Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 with a first rapture according to readiness before the 1st trumpet is blown (8.7); then Jesus returns stepping down on the mount of olives on the 2,520th day Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.

My only trouble is it is hard for me to believe the mark of the beast will be widely distributed in time, but perhaps it doesn't need to be and Jesus returns to not allow it to be that pervasive, just as He returns because natural gas fracturing, other pollution and radiation are doing too much damage to the earth.

I am also concerned that construction on the 3rd Temple has not begun yet, but I won't get really really concerned until 2015 passes by and no such construction begins. These really are my only issues.

Nothing you have said presents a problem for the Tribulation's 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.

The key is Rev. 6.12 must occur shortly before the Tribulation takes place. I know with 100% certainty Rev. 6.12 refers to the events 2010-15. Your dates are so far removed from 2015 it just has no credibility based on the data I see.

Maybe the problem you don't appreciate this is because you don't believe in partial rapture which places Rev. 6.12 right before the Tribulation starts.

[Aleksandar]

As in Noah's days is not in Noah's sons' days, but it has to do with how everyone was drinking and marrying oblivious to the fact a great flood was coming that Noah warned about.

It’s true that “it has to do with how everyone was drinking and marrying oblivious to the fact a great flood was coming that Noah warned about”, because so it’s mentioned in the verses from The Scripture where God speaks about that. But, It has to do not only with that. We must watch more in dept. For, in some other parts of the Bible, nephilims are mentioned and God punished world with flood not only because of wicked people, but because of nephilims too. And, though God didn’t say directly: “As nephilims were in day of Noah so it will be in those days”, yet indirectly it’s God’s message and nephilims will really exist in wide extent in “those days”. The same case is with lifetime of generation of “those days”.


“It is about how long a person should live if he stays spiritual and healthy--70 to 80 years. God never said a person should live nearly 100 years before His return though there are always exceptions of course.
Many people in 21st century reach and will reach 100 and more years. <text removed>
You're still missing the point. It is an average that most people should live 70 to 80 years before the millennial kingdom; and in the millennial kingdom people should live to be 100. This did not occur in Noah's day, but in Noah's day a person should live to at least 75 years to at least meet this standard God has set.”

I think that I said enough about generation which is by Bible 40, 70-80, 96, 100 years, etc. and I think it has not sense to repeat. You don’t have proof that it must be 70-80 years. I think that I shew that it’s more logical to be 96 years because of that I wrote in precedent posts. Who has eye to see, that will see.


Jesus will only allow 7 years for the Tribulation commensurate with Daniel's final seven for Israel. He cuts it short. He won't allow it to extend 14 years or 21 years.

I agree that “He won't allow it to extend 14 years or 21 years”. I nowhere said He will. But, He also nowhere said that it will last 14 or 21 (or some other value different from 7) years, and on some other place that it will be shortened from 14 or 21 to 7 years. He only spoke about 7 years. So when He speaks about shortening time He speaks about faster passage of that 7-years time than time before that one.


Adam never made any pyramids. The stones in Jerusalem are not pyramids. How silly. That ancient peoples could build pyramids that point to certain stars is no miracle. It is really easy to do. The signs in the heavens are that of Joel 2.31, Acts 2.20, Rev. 6.12 which occur before the Tribulation starts; that is, the Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 Solar eclipse and the 2014/15 feast Tetrad.

I didn’t say that the stones in Jerusalem are not pyramids. So, I didn’t say anything silly as you say. But, your conclusion is not correct. You don’t watch wide, so you made wrong conclusion. You limited message of Jesus only to stones in Jerusalem. When Jesus spoke about them, His message wasn't only about them but about each stone which speaks about God. Whole archaeology speaks about God, about that the Bible is true and nowadays when many people shut, betray or twist truth, stones really cry out. Your limitation is similar as you said that message from the Gospel regards only to apostles and all other whom Jesus was speaking to in that time, because He was speaking to them. But, all true Christians know that what Jesus spoke to them, regards to all generations till end of the age and so to our generation.


That ancient peoples could build pyramids that point to certain stars is no miracle. It is really easy to do.

Building pyramids in Giza with such measures, proportions and meanings could have been done only by God’s wisdom. So it is miracle, big miracle.


The signs in the heavens are that of Joel 2.31 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Joel%202.31), Acts 2.2 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Acts%202.2), Rev. 6.12 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Rev.%206.12) which occur before the Tribulation starts; that is, the Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 Solar eclipse and the 2014/15 feast Tetrad.
The sixth seal is at the same time the seventh trumpet and seventh bowl of God’s wrath, so it is at the end of Tribulation, not before Tribulation. And Acts 2.2 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Acts%202.2) is not connected with Joel 2.31 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Joel%202.31) and Rev. 6.12 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Rev.%206.12). Act 2:2 is about outpouring of The Holy Spirit on Pentecost, almost 2000 years ago.


Ezra 2 is not one of the 66 books of God's word so it is one of those "other books" not of God's word. That's where Roman Catholics falter as they add and take away from God's word (Rev. 22.18 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Rev.%2022.18),19 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Rev%2022.19)).

Yes, Ezra 2 is not one of the 66 books of God’s word, but it is not true that therefore it is "one of those 'other books' not of God's word". Because, beside 66 canonical Bible books, there are some apocryphal Bible books. For example, The Book of Jasher, which is mentioned in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18 or The Book of Enoch mentioned in Jude 1:14, etc. 2 Esdras was in the Septuagint version of Jesus' day and was in even the first edition of the King James. It was taken out of canon in the 1885. because of the pressure from the Puritans.


The Lord could have returned earlier from when Israel became a nation, but chose not to because Israel needed more time to develop as a nation. He delayed so that Rev. 6.12 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Rev.%206.12) could be fulfilled 2010-15 before the Tribulation starts.

The Lord will neither delay nor hurry. He will come as He planned before He created the world.


I believe Ez. 38 & 39 is partly the Tribulation and partly the Gog and Magog situation at the end of the millennial reign, similar to how Christ's first coming and second coming fulfill His purpose but separated by nearly 2000 years.

Yes, and Ez. 38 & 39 could even happen just prior to tribulation. Or maybe in some other time. I’m not sure when exactly, time will show.


My only trouble is it is hard for me to believe the mark of the beast will be widely distributed in time, but perhaps it doesn't need to be and Jesus returns to not allow it to be that pervasive, just as He returns because natural gas fracturing, other pollution and and radiation are doing too much damage to the earth.

As Revelation says, all people will be mandatory to receive the mark of the beast. Those who reject will be killed and prosecuted.



Based on everything you have shown me for your alternate dates, I find no reason for you to hold onto them because I have given the reasons why they are not viable. You must challenge the data I provide that denounces your dates, otherwise you cling to something that has evidence against it. Nothing really fits for your alternate dates. It's too ad hoc, lacks plausibility, explanatory scope and power.

If you are honest, you will see that it’s about you. It’s not important who is right, but that all of us are in line with God’s word. If I weren’t I would change my mind (as I did whenever I saw mistakes or sins in my life), but regarding to this discussion I see you are not right and I wish you to accept truth. Truth make us free if we accept it. It’s God’s message.
I think that I said enough and that farther discussion would not have sense, because you don't (not forever, I hope) accept true arguments.
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.” (Rev 2:11)

All the best from The Lord Jesus,
Aleksandar

[Faithful]

It’s true that “it has to do with how everyone was drinking and marrying oblivious to the fact a great flood was coming that Noah warned about”, because so it’s mentioned in the verses from The Scripture where God speaks about that. But, It has to do not only with that. We must watch more in dept. For, in some other parts of the Bible, nephilims are mentioned and God punished world with flood not only because of wicked people, but because of nephilims too. And, though God didn’t say directly: “As nephilims were in day of Noah so it will be in those days”, yet indirectly it’s God’s message and nephilims will really exist in wide extent in “those days”. The same case is with lifetime of generation of “those days”.
We weren't talking about Nephilims but the age people ought to live which is 75 years (Ps. 90.10).


I think that I said enough about generation which is by Bible 40, 70-80, 96, 100 years, etc. and I think it has not sense to repeat. You don’t have proof that it must be 70-80 years. I think that I shew that it’s more logical to be 96 years because of that I wrote in precedent posts. Who has eye to see, that will see.
I think you are still shutting your mind down closing off your eyes to the fact that we are not talking about a "generation" which is 30 to 40 years, and Matt. 24.34 is not talking about a physical generation, but an immoral one. We are no talking about the 100 years the Bible says a person should live during the millennial kingdom. We are not in the millennial kingdom. Nor are we talking about outliers of exceptions to the rule such as 96 years for a particular individual. Ps. 90 is very clear and all the proof you need: "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away" (v.10). Praise the Lord! Nothing you wrote anywhere suggest otherwise.


I agree that “He won't allow it to extend 14 years or 21 years”. I nowhere said He will. But, He also nowhere said that it will last 14 or 21 (or some other value different from 7) years, and on some other place that it will be shortened from 14 or 21 to 7 years. He only spoke about 7 years. So when He speaks about shortening time He speaks about faster passage of that 7-years time than time before that one.
7 years is a very short period of time, much shorter than 14 or 21 years. He limits the time of the Tribulation to just 7 years and the Great Tribulation to just 3 1/2 years. Many events throughout the Bible took many more years to unfold than just 7 years, but God limits the time to just 7 years and cuts it short at that point.


I didn’t say that the stones in Jerusalem are not pyramids. So, I didn’t say anything silly as you say. But, your conclusion is not correct. You don’t watch wide, so you made wrong conclusion. You limited message of Jesus only to stones in Jerusalem. When Jesus spoke about them, His message wasn't only about them but about each stone which speaks about God. Whole archaeology speaks about God, about that the Bible is true and nowadays when many people shut, betray or twist truth, stones really cry out. Your limitation is similar as you said that message from the Gospel regards only to apostles and all other whom Jesus was speaking to in that time, because He was speaking to them. But, all true Christians know that what Jesus spoke to them, regards to all generations till end of the age and so to our generation.
You said, "I didn’t say that the stones in Jerusalem are not pyramids" which agrees with your former statement, "Those ones are pyramids made by Adam, his son Set, Enoch and other pre-Flood patriarchs.... I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out." I never said you said these stones in Jerusalem were in Jerusalem. I exposed you claiming they were the stones of Egypt, the pyramids, when obviously they are not. The stones in Israel are stones in Israel, not the pyramids. How silly. The context is clearly Israel and Jerusalem not Egypt in Luke 19.41. You're trying to make Scripture say crazy things it does not say. You're overassuming nature is getting the better of you. You're lacking humility by being so liberal with the Scriptures.


Building pyramids in Giza with such measures, proportions and meanings could have been done only by God’s wisdom. So it is miracle, big miracle.
Pyramids were built by heathens for their Pharaohs to be mummified in to allegedly give them eternal life. Even heathens can build great towers, e.g. tower of babel. You're confused. You're like the Jehovah Witnesses with their great love for the pyramids, but as an outcropping they reject Jesus is God. What do you do? You add to the 66 books of God's word and claim it to be God's word.


The sixth seal is at the same time the seventh trumpet and seventh bowl of God’s wrath, so it is at the end of Tribulation, not before Tribulation. And Acts 2.2 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Acts%202.2) is not connected with Joel 2.31 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Joel%202.31) and Rev. 6.12 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Rev.%206.12). Act 2:2 is about outpouring of The Holy Spirit on Pentecost, almost 2000 years ago.
This is a great mistake to think that the book of Revelation keeps repeating itself, leaving us empty about what is to occur in the world these past 20 centuries (Rev. 6). No! The 6 seals, general in nature, are the past 20 centuries. The 1st seal recounts the cross with a bow and arrow that looks like a cross held by the rider on the white horse (same rider in Rev. 19), but that arrow has been shot giving Satan a deadly wound by the cross. Would Jesus leave us in the dark and wait 2000 years to begin opening the little book He is holding in Rev. 5 as newly slain (same scroll as in Rev. 10)? Of course not. He begins breaking the seals these past 20 centuries. With the breaking of the 7th seal we observe the 7 trumpets of the Tribulation, and the 7th trumpet pours out the 7 bowls of wrath (after the interjection of Rev. 10 about the little book and to preach again the details Rev. 12 to 19 of the major points from Rev 7 to 9). Joel 2.31 says "before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come." Acts 2.20 says "before that great and notable day of the Lord come." Thus, these same events in Rev. 6.12 are before the great and terrible day of the Lord which is the Tribulation, Daniel's final seven, His parousia that lasts 7 years. You're confusing Acts 2.20 with 2.2. During the past 20 centuries 1/4 are killed by "a pale horse: to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death" (Rev. 6.8). During the Great Tribulation 1/3 are killed by fire and brimstone (9.18). The intensity increases from the past 20 centuries where only 1/4 are killed then during the Tribulation over just 7 years 1/3 are killed not by hunger and pestilence, but fire and brimstone (nuclear holocaust). Think of Revelation like a lock tumbler where the 6 seals are the past 20 centuries. The 7th seal opens up the loud 7 trumpets of the Tribulation, followed by the 7th trumpet which pours out the 7 bowls of wrath which itself last 24 months (5 months for the 1st woe, 13 months for the 2nd woe, leaving 24 months for the 3rd woe for a total of 42 months). Pray on this as I pray for your understanding.


Yes, Ezra 2 is not one of the 66 books of God’s word, but it is not true that therefore it is "one of those 'other books' not of God's word". Because, beside 66 canonical Bible books, there are some apocryphal Bible books. For example, The Book of Jasher, which is mentioned in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18 or The Book of Enoch mentioned in Jude 1:14, etc. 2 Esdras was in the Septuagint version of Jesus' day and was in even the first edition of the King James. It was taken out of canon in the 1885. because of the pressure from the Puritans.
God's word is 66 books. Don't add to God's word. "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book" (Rev. 22.18). These "other books" such as the Apocryphal books are not God's word, nor were all the books in the Septuagint God's word. Citing a book is not equivalent to it being God's word. The word of God doesn't change through the days. God intended for His word to be complete in the 66 books. Do you call Him a liar? By the way Puritans were not Christians since they were Calvinists, that is, they assumed they were irresistibly selected, not given the free choice. I can see where your mistaken thoughts come from since you rely so heavily on books not God's word. Naturally they have mistakes in them like you do in your theories. My job is to correct you. You claim there are more than 66 books to God's word. God's word only has 66 books. Why is it 66 books? Because 6 is the number of Satan and the number of man, for man loves to follow Satan's ways, but we have these 66 books which aim to separate the union of man with Satan in God's redemptive design. Amen. Pray on this as I pray for your humility to accept this fact.


The Lord will neither delay nor hurry. He will come as He planned before He created the world.
"While the bridegroom tarried" (Matt. 25.5) the 5 unwise virgins slumbered and slept. He delays from when Israel became a nation again, but as the Tribulation ensues He shortens the time to just 7 years. Have you no faith to believe this?


Yes, and Ez. 38 & 39 could even happen just prior to tribulation. Or maybe in some other time. I’m not sure when exactly, time will show.
Ez. 38 & 39 can't happen before the Tribulation. It's main emphasis is the Great Tribulation and like a cap sealed at the end of the millennial kingdom to finish off any parts left not finalized in the Great Trib. There will be no major war before WW III. This war of the Great Trib is the war to end all wars. You're confused.


As Revelation says, all people will be mandatory to receive the mark of the beast. Those who reject will be killed and prosecuted.
The Bible doesn't say it will be mandatory for all people. First it is voluntary. Perhaps a great many people will eventually be forced, but let us not be so legalistic to assume every last person on the planet will be forced into taking it. That is a bit extreme!


If you are honest, you will see that it’s about you. It’s not important who is right, but that all of us are in line with God’s word. If I weren’t I would change my mind (as I did whenever I saw mistakes or sins in my life), but regarding to this discussion I see you are not right and I wish you to accept truth. Truth make us free if we accept it. It’s God’s message. I think that I said enough and that farther discussion would not have sense, because you don't (not forever, I hope) accept true arguments. “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.” (Rev 2:11).
Satan says "it's not important who is right, but that all of us are in line with God's word." This is doublespeak. Obviously, the word of God is given to be right not to be wrong. To be in line with God's word is to be right not to be wrong. How foolish your words are. Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8). Obviously, you are unwilling to have a change of mind, locked in your ways, because the evidence supplied shows you are wrong and still you do not repent. What then is the consequence of your unwillingness to repent? Not only will you exclude yourself from the first rapture Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10 "before the throne" 7.9) before the 1st trumpet (8.7), you will also lose the reward of returning with Christ to reign on earth for 1000 years with His overcomers (Jude 14,15; Rev. 2.26, 12.5). Obviously you are not ready with your false teachings leading people astray from the timing of the Tribulation and by misreading Revelation. You do not have the blessing of Rev. 1.3 because you misread the book of Revelation so horribly and add to God's word so these plagues will be upon you.

Those who overcometh cannot be hurt by the second death, but if you are a Christian (and I am not saying you are) though you can't lose eternal life, you can still be hurt by the second death (Rev. 2.11), for Hell itself can burn off the dross of your false works such as those you display here.

Praise the Lord! Amen.

Some indications you are not a Christian in your profile:

You did not give your life to the Jesus who keeps once-saved-always-saved for those born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). You disagree with the word of God complete in 66 books. You treat tongues as nonsensical gibberish babble and call that the infilling of the Holy Spirit, rather than the gift of language to spread the gospel to the nations. You're not sure if Mary sinned or not or that women can be Apostles, Elders and teachers. And you don't accept that the Apostles are directly chosen by God to appoint Elders of a church locality. All of this taken in total indicates you are not a Christian, especially the first point.

[Aleksandar]

"Last edited by Churchwork; Yesterday at 06:36 AM. Reason: Removed false quote "(as in the Noah's days)." Please don't quote your words in quotes of another person as if they said that"

Sorry, it wasn’t intentionaly. It’s possible that when I quoted some Faithful’s post which contained some my quote including that "(as in the Noah's days).", while preparing answer, maybe I accidentally left those words in Faithful’s qoute instead in mine.

[Aleksandar]

Faithful, since you said some large slanders (what's mortal sin), I’ll answer you.


We are no talking about the 100 years the Bible says a person should live during the millennial kingdom. We are not in the millennial kingdom.

There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. Isaiah 65:20

This verse shows God uses 100-year lasting generation (which is biblical as it is described in my precedent posts) to say that what is nowdays old man that will be child in millennial kingdom. If 100 years old man is child that means that elder will live much longer than 100 years. And, if I understood well about millennial kingdom, in that time people will die only if they make (mortal) sin and when someone dies, others will know he made sins.


Nor are we talking about outliers of exceptions to the rule such as 96 years for a particular individual.
Read link http://www.360calendar.com/bible-prophecy-360-days-calendar-8.htm I have already left in some of my precedent posts.


” Ps. 90 is very clear and all the proof you need: "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away" (v.10).”
People sometimes prefer easier ways. I have already written there are other biblical lifetimes though harder to be found. But, God said that who searches, he will find. And I left you links about that.


You said, "I didn’t say that the stones in Jerusalem are not pyramids" which agrees with your former statement, "Those ones are pyramids made by Adam, his son Set, Enoch and other pre-Flood patriarchs.... I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out." I never said you said these stones in Jerusalem were in Jerusalem. I exposed you claiming they were the stones of Egypt, the pyramids, when obviously they are not. The stones in Israel are stones in Israel, not the pyramids. How silly. The context is clearly Israel and Jerusalem not Egypt in Luke 19.41 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Luke%2019.41). You're trying to make Scripture say crazy things it does not say. You're overassuming nature is getting the better of you. You're lacking humility by being so liberal with the Scriptures.

With each your post you more and more show your real face. You behave very dishonestly. Now I see that I made lapsus. I have wrongly written "I didn’t say that the stones in Jerusalem are not pyramids". I should have written: "I didn’t say that the stones in Jerusalem are pyramids" (so, without “not”). And you use my lapsus to say all these untrue things you have written about me here. That reminds me of pharisees who were trying to catch Jesus in the word. Lapsus is something what can happen to anyone. So, my explanation is correct. Jesus spoke of stones in Jerusalem, not in Egypt, but meaning of His words is wider. His words regard to all stones (including these in Egypt) that will cry out. We can see that when watch archaelogical discoveries.


Pyramids were built by heathens for their Pharaohs to be mummified in to allegedly give them eternal life. Even heathens can build great towers, e.g. tower of babel. You're confused. You're like the Jehovah Witnesses with their great love for the pyramids, but as an outcropping they reject Jesus is God. What do you do? You add to the 66 books of God's word and claim it to be God's word.

If you love truth, then search and you’ll find out who made Pyramids in Giza. In that way, you’ll check if I’m speaking truth. And God nowhere said that His word is only in those 66 books.


Acts 2.20 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Acts%202.20) says "before that great and notable day of the Lord come." Thus, these same events in Rev. 6.12 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Rev.%206.12) are before the great and terrible day of the Lord which is the Tribulation, Daniel's final seven, His parousia that lasts 7 years. You're confusing Acts 2.20 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Acts%202.20) with 2.2.
I don’t know whether you later changed Acts 2.2 in Acts 2:20 when you saw that I noticed you cited Acts 2.2 which is not in connections with Rev. 6.12. As I remember, earlier Acts 2:2 was written. I believe you made lapsus when you wrote Acts 2.2 instead of Act 2.20 (as I did when I wrote "I didn’t say that the stones in Jerusalem are not pyramids" instead of "I didn’t say that the stones in Jerusalem are pyramids"). Yet, maybe you didn’t change it, maybe I accidentally cleaned “0” when I cited you. I don’t remember well, so never mind.

About seals, trumpets and bowls, I recommend everyone to read verses in the Bible where the sixth seal, seventh trumpet and seventh bowl of God’s wrath are mentioned. It’s clear that it’s the same events.


"While the bridegroom tarried" (Matt. 25.5 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Matt.%2025.5)) the 5 unwise virgins slumbered and slept. He delays from when Israel became a nation again, but as the Tribulation ensues He shortens the time to just 7 years. Have you no faith to believe this?

”8 But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day. 9 The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief.” (2 Pet. 3:8-10).
You are right in sense that God leaves time as much as it’s necessary that as many people as it’s possible are saved. But, that time is predestinate. God determined that He would come exactly 6000 years after creation of Adam, neither day more or less (and similarly The Judgement Day after 7000 years – “For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.”(Acts 17:31)). So, "while the bridegroom tarried" is from perspective of people who expect God who hasn’t come yet (because they don’t know when exactly He comes, “don’t know day or hour” and they expected He should have already come, but He hasn’t yet). According to human expectations, it’s like He is slow, but apostle Peter tells us not to think so, because “A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day”(6 and 7 days like 6 and 7 thousand years), “he is being patient for your sake”, but “the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief”. All God’s patience for our salvation is within 7000 years (counting from creation of Adam).


Ez. 38 & 39 can't happen before the Tribulation. It's main emphasis is the Great Tribulation and like a cap sealed at the end of the millennial kingdom to finish off any parts left not finalized in the Great Trib. There will be no major war before WW III. This war of the Great Trib is the war to end all wars. You're confused.

The six trumpet is war of Tribulation (and perhaps the fifth trumpet too, though there is some other interpretation of the fifth trumpet which is not war, what’s also possible).
About Ezekiel 38, 39 war I have already said that I’m not sure when it could happen. From some verses it seems that it even could happen during Tribulation, but I think that it will not, since according to verse Ezekiel 39:9 Jews will burn weapons for seven years and that will not be possible during 3,5 years of Great Tribulation when Jews will be hidden of Antichrist in desert. And, of course, main war against Gog and Magog will be at the end of the millennial kingdom.


The Bible doesn't say it will be mandatory for all people. First it is voluntary. Perhaps a great many people will eventually be forced, but let us not be so legalistic to assume every last person on the planet will be forced into taking it. That is a bit extreme!

Revelation 13:
“15He was then permitted to give life to this image so that it could speak. Then the image of the beast commanded that anyone refusing to worship it must die. 16 He required everyone — small and great, rich and poor, free and slave—to be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. 17 And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name”.
“7And the beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation. 8 And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life before the world was made—the Book that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered.”


Satan says "it's not important who is right, but that all of us are in line with God's word." This is doublespeak. Obviously, the word of God is given to be right not to be wrong. To be in line with God's word is to be right not to be wrong. How foolish your words are. Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/1%20Tim.%203.8)).

You didn’t quote other part of context:
“If I weren’t I would change my mind (as I did whenever I saw mistakes or sins in my life), but regarding to this discussion I see you are not right and I wish you to accept truth. Truth make us free if we accept it. It’s God’s message.” I clearly said that you are wrong and I’m right on this topic and that you should accept truth. Our opinions are not worth if they are not in line with God’s word and in that case mustn’t be unchangable. If they are in line with God’s word then they must be unchangable. We mustn’t speak like we are on competition, where we fight to win each other. And I don’t speak so, but I see that you speak so. I proved what I was speaking, but you deny truth, deny very God’s word just to be right (though you are not). You are speaking in the remaining text that I add to God’s word (what’s not true) and that therefore evils in Bible will happen to me, but I’ve proved that you deny some verses from Bible and remove from God’s word so if you don’t repent (what I sincerely wish you) God will take away your part “out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (Rev. 22:19).
You are not my enemy and you shouldn’t experience me in that way. Our enemies are devils and our war is against them as the Bible testifies. All I speak is not to hurt you but to help you see where you are wrong and to accept truth which only can lead us to Truth Who is (beside that) Way and Life too. So, truth leads people to Truth and Truth leads people to Father :smile-new: and so they are one with Father and Son, in Holy Spirit (Who is Spirit of truth).

[Aleksandar]

You did not give your life to the Jesus who keeps once-saved-always-saved for those born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/John%2010.28)).
Now I’m not quite sure what you mean when say “once-saved-always-saved”.
If you mean that God foreknow who will be saved then, certainly “once (one which about God know will be) saved, always (will be) saved (since God know that)”. But, if you mean that everyone who is once born-again will certainly be saved forever then you are wrong. For, as God foreknow who of those born-again Christians will be saved, He also foreknow who of those born-again Christians will not be saved. Verse before those you cited says:
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27). And verse before that one:
“25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, these bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.27 “ (John 10:25)
And there are many verses in the Scripture which say that we will not be saved by our works, but also not by faith which is not followed by works of faith. Some of verses which speak about that are this ones:
“26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. 27 Pure faith and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.” (James 1:26,27) And other verses in this chapter. Also in the next chapter:
“14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?” (James 2:14)
“24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:14)
“26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2:26) See this all: James 2:14-26
And many other verses in the Scripture.
There are people mentioned in the Bible who were born-again, but later left way of salvation – for example:
“15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.” (2 Timothy 1:15)
“10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica;” (2 Timothy 4:10)

You disagree with the word of God complete in 66 books.
As I said, you deny truth that God’s word exists in some books out of those 66 books.

You treat tongues as nonsensical gibberish babble and call that the infilling of the Holy Spirit, rather than the gift of language to spread the gospel to the nations.
Another your slander. I don’t treat tongues as nonsensial gibberish babble. I don’t pretend to say that I know all theological answers, but as I understood the Scripture, speaking in tongues is gift of the Holy Spirit given as confirmation that man is baptized in the Holy Spirit and also it can be used for spreading the gospel to the nations, but not only that, because, as I understand, some people when get that gift, don’t only speak in understandable languages, but also some mysterious languages which are only used in communication with God. And some your questions are such that I can say neither “yes” nor “no” and then I must answer “not sure”, though I’m sure, but I could answer only if you put a bit spreader question. For example, on question “Distinction of God's 3 Persons” I answered “not sure” just because I wasn’t sure what you mean exactly. If you mean distinction in sense that God is one substance in three different, but not separated persons then my answer is certainly “yes”, but if you mean three different and separated persons, answer is “no”. Yet, about this question, when I now better think, I could even say that you precisely put question, because “distinction” has same meaning as “different and not separated”, so I could answer “yes”.

However, on question “Women Apostles but Mary Sinned” I answered “not sure” because I consider that women weren't apostles (they were preachers, prophets and similarly but not apostles), but Mary sinned (though God chose her to come on earth through her because of her pure life), so you should have separated questions that I could answer with “no” on question “women apostles” and “yes” on question “Mary sinned”.
Also, I consider that there aren’t apostles nowdays. Apostles were in the first time. We can say that Church will get gifts of the Holy Spirit as the first Church, but people who get those gifts nowdays by my opinion can’t be named apostles, but only preachers, prophets, servants of God, elders, bishops, etc. Maybe, we can conditionally name them apostles too, but more as spreaders of the Gospel and similarly, yet not in full sense as it was in the first time. And I can’t find any support of the Bible to claim that there are and will be apostles nowadays.

P.S. When I wrote this all, I saw that you have answers of all these questions. I read some of them. For example, about women apostles. I saw your arguments, but they are not proof, they are stretched. From the Bible it can’t be proven that there were women who were apostles. Etc. I also saw some texts on your site which I don’t consider Christian at all.
Faithful, I think that I answered you enough. You can go on twisting truth, slandering me, etc. If I answer, you’ll twist all again and so on. Therefore, it’s not worth to answer farther. I said all I had. I will not write here anymore. I sincerely wish you to repent and accept truth. I know that Satan want you, me and all people to go to Hell. All I said, all my critics are for your well. So let God give you repentance and eternal salvation!

All the best,
Aleksandar

[Faithful]

Now I’m not quite sure what you mean when say “once-saved-always-saved”. If you mean that God foreknow who will be saved then, certainly “once (one which about God know will be) saved, always (will be) saved (since God know that)”. But, if you mean that everyone who is once born-again will certainly be saved forever then you are wrong. For, as God foreknow who of those born-again Christians will be saved, He also foreknow who of those born-again Christians will not be saved. Verse before those you cited says:

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27). And verse before that one:
“25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, these bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.27 “ (John 10:25)
And there are many verses in the Scripture which say that we will not be saved by our works, but also not by faith which is not followed by works of faith. Some of verses which speak about that are this ones:
“26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. 27 Pure faith and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.” (James 1:26,27) And other verses in this chapter. Also in the next chapter:
“14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?” (James 2:14)
“24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:14)
“26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2:26) See this all: James 2:14-26
And many other verses in the Scripture.
There are people mentioned in the Bible who were born-again, but later left way of salvation – for example:
“15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.” (2 Timothy 1:15)
“10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica;” (2 Timothy 4:10)
None of these verses you gave speak of a person born-again who loses eternal life. John 17.3 says those who are born of God have eternal life. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." I have eternal life right now so that I might know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent.

Try reading these passages in two possible contexts, where a person is saved but backslides, falling away but not all the way. And in the other instance where the person was never saved to begin with, coming to the door of salvation but not entering like in 2 Pet. 2.21. Only then can you reconcile these passages with other passages that say a person can't lose salvation once-saved-always-saved. For example, John 10.28 says a person born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Pretty solid! So next time you read a passage about a Christian backsliding appreciate he is not losing eternal life, but he is losing rewards even the reward to return with Christ to reign during the 1000 years, since only overcomers get to return with Christ (Rev. 20.4). All Christians overcometh, but not at the same time. There are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere. Amen.

How strange a salvation that would be to receive eternal life once born-again only to lose it tomorrow, get it back the following day and on and on. What a mockery of God that would be! It would make Christianity no different than other religions that are works-based or based on self-strength. We are not saved by works lest anyone should boast! He simply doesn't save you to begin with. He doesn't save those who rely on their own strength to think they can lose salvation tomorrow and entered a relationship they could lose tomorrow. Those who gave their lives to Christ gave their life to Jesus to be kept humbly accepting we can't keep ourselves saved. It's like you entered a false marriage with one foot already out the door ready to leave at anytime. The Holy Spirit told me you have never been born-again and probably never will be, because you refuse to give your life to the God who promises to always keep, for we who have been saved are sealed by the Holy Spirit since we have become a new creation of God and members of the body of Christ. Can a member of the spiritual body be separated? Impossible!

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" (Eph. 1.13,14).


As I said, you deny truth that God’s word exists in some books out of those 66 books.
That's correct, God's word is complete in His 66 books. Man tries to add to God's word. Not another word need be spoken to add to the fullness of His word before He returns than the written text that embodies His fullness of the Godhead. Your flesh arbitrarily adds any books you feel like adding to His complete word, and apparently you are the only one who follows your particular compilation of extra books you add this year and the next. You seem to be the only follower of your particular religion.


Another your slander. I don’t treat tongues as nonsensial gibberish babble. I don’t pretend to say that I know all theological answers, but as I understood the Scripture, speaking in tongues is gift of the Holy Spirit given as confirmation that man is baptized in the Holy Spirit and also it can be used for spreading the gospel to the nations, but not only that, because, as I understand, some people when get that gift, don’t only speak in understandable languages, but also some mysterious languages which are only used in communication with God.
In your profile you answered "No" to "Biblical Tongues are Languages Only". That which is not a language is gibberish babble, so you do treat tongues "as nonsensical gibberish babble" for it has no syntax, structure and when tested by gibberish babbling interpreters they never give the same interpretation so it is proven false. Please stop contradicting yourself. Your understanding of Scripture is false, because once baptized you don't automatically peak another language. How absurd! When one is baptized though if you speak another language you can speak words of gratitude to God that others may not understand because they don't know that language. To them it is just a tongue. There are no mysterious languages to the person speaking. He fully understands what he is saying. Satan would have someone speak gibberish so he doesn't understand what he is saying. Satan wants you to be mindless to deaden your spirit. This is one of Satan's tools of deception to put people in a false salvation and even deceive the elect. There is a Biblical principle that when someone worships they are fully cognizant of their prayers and not engaged in gibberish babble. Please don't replace the larynx with the spirit. The spirit is that still small voice of one's intuitive conscience in communion with God and makes no use of the physical and soulical. Perhaps if you understand man is a tripartite being you would appreciate this fact.


And some your questions are such that I can say neither “yes” nor “no” and then I must answer “not sure”, though I’m sure, but I could answer only if you put a bit spreader question. For example, on question “Distinction of God's 3 Persons” I answered “not sure” just because I wasn’t sure what you mean exactly. If you mean distinction in sense that God is one substance in three different, but not separated persons then my answer is certainly “yes”, but if you mean three different and separated persons, answer is “no”. Yet, about this question, when I now better think, I could even say that you precisely put question, because “distinction” has same meaning as “different and not separated”, so I could answer “yes”.
That's ok if you are not sure about the whole question then just answer "Not sure". If you disagree with something then answer "No". Pretty simple! The questions are given as simple as possible.

Here is the question...Do you believe the Godhead is One Being of one substance in three Persons (http://biblocality.com/forums/faq.php?faq=37questions#faq_question3), co-equal, co-eternal and co-inherent, each having their own distinct will (John 6.38 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/John%206.38), Luke 22.42 (http://biblia.com/bible/asv/Luke%2022.42))?

I am glad you now agree with the question, but I just looked at your profile and you have not yet agreed. Even so, I added the phrase "not separate" to "one substance" and "One Being" even though that really was enough. That's why these questions are so useful, they are precise as can be.


However, on question “Women Apostles but Mary Sinned” I answered “not sure” because I consider that women weren't apostles (they were preachers, prophets and similarly but not apostles), but Mary sinned (though God chose her to come on earth through her because of her pure life), so you should have separated questions that I could answer with “no” on question “women apostles” and “yes” on question “Mary sinned”.
There were female Apostles such as Junia and Mary. N.T. Wright agrees there were women apostles,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/womenapostles.htm

Many people have suggested this question should be separated but I don't think so, because it addresses women in total. Women have the same right as men and that which is born of the flesh is flesh. Mary on numerous occasions in the Bible sinned and acted selfishly. Consider Mary Magdalene an Apostle.

Your answer should be "No" since there is something in the question you disagree with. By answering "No" does not imply you disagree with everything, but at least some part of it. This is the proper way to structure the question.


Also, I consider that there aren’t apostles nowdays. Apostles were in the first time. We can say that Church will get gifts of the Holy Spirit as the first Church, but people who get those gifts nowdays by my opinion can’t be named apostles, but only preachers, prophets, servants of God, elders, bishops, etc. Maybe, we can conditionally name them apostles too, but more as spreaders of the Gospel and similarly, yet not in full sense as it was in the first time. And I can’t find any support of the Bible to claim that there are and will be apostles nowadays.
There were 2nd and 3rd and 4th generation Apostles. Hence we read about other Apostles: "then of all the apostles" (1 Cor. 15.7). This was after Paul mentioned the 12 Apostles. John wrote way past the point of when most of first Apostles had died when Jesus told him around 95 AD, "Know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars" (Rev. 2.2). This verse wouldn't make much sense if there were no longer any Apostles setting up the churches. Such terminology indicates the Apostles continue thereafter. There were people calling themselves Apostles who weren't just like today or even denying they exist. What heresy! Otherwise Jesus would have said explicitly the Apostles belong to just the first generation of believers.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers" (Eph. 4.11). How strange that 1/4 of the workers for the Church cease to exist leaving us to fend for ourselves. How strange it would be that the Apostles would stop setting up the churches across the globe since they according to you no longer exist. “According to the measure of the province (http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?117-Informal-Apostles-Elders&p=92#post92) which God appointed to us as a measure, to reach even unto you" (2 Cor. 10.13). "Appoint elders in every city (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/workisregional.htm)" (Titus 1.5).

You're a big fan of other books being God's word. I am not saying the Didache is God's word, since it was not included, but it certainly holds some truths, in agreement with God's word, such as containing instructions on how to distinguish between false and true apostles today.

Another mistake you made is to claim there were Elders and Bishops. Elders are Bishops. They are directly appointed by Apostles to take care of a church locality.

Since there were Apostles in addition to the 12 Apostles who saw Jesus, and there were Apostles who became Apostles who had never seen Jesus after He ascended, and John speaks of discerning who is an Apostle going into the 2nd century, you can see how Satan has been quite deceptive in confusing alleged members of the body of Christ regarding the Apostles. Recall, I do not believe you are born-again, because you refuse to give your life to the God who keeps. You're simply too selfish to do so, thus you don't search God out with all your heart and soul. God doesn't given you the gift of repentance and faith unto regeneration.


P.S. When I wrote this all, I saw that you have answers of all these questions. I read some of them. For example, about women apostles. I saw your arguments, but they are not proof, they are stretched. From the Bible it can’t be proven that there were women who were apostles. Etc. I also saw some texts on your site which I don’t consider Christian at all.
I don't know what texts you are referring to. Any proof I give is strictly from Scripture. Any additional information is not the proof but just anecdotal. Since Junia was an Apostle and she was a woman, women can be Apostles. The Roman Church got it wrong. Not surprisingly the Bible calls her the great harlot who makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (Rev. 14.8).


Faithful, I think that I answered you enough. You can go on twisting truth, slandering me, etc. If I answer, you’ll twist all again and so on. Therefore, it’s not worth to answer farther. I said all I had. I will not write here anymore. I sincerely wish you to repent and accept truth. I know that Satan want you, me and all people to go to Hell. All I said, all my critics are for your well. So let God give you repentance and eternal salvation!
Nobody is slandering you. You really are not born-again. Would someone loving pretend like you were saved when you were not saved? Do keep your promise never to respond. God said make your Yes a Yes and No a No.

Why would I need to listen to you and Satan who say to me "let God give you repentance and eternal life salvation" when I already have eternal salvation? I am already born-again, once-saved-always-saved. God has already given me the gift of repentance and faith because I searched Him out with all my heart and soul and thus, have surely found Him as promised to whosoever is willing. Hebrews 6 goes into this that we can't reclaim what we have already received again. It is final!
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/1Tim4.htm

I am sad to hear you don't have eternal salvation and are not my brother in Christ, but just know that I bring this to your attention because I don't want you to go to Hell. I would not wish upon my worse enemy where you are going. Even so you still have time to be saved, to repent to the cross as a helpless sinner and receive the Lord Jesus as Savior; only then will you be regenerated, receiving eternal life, forgiven and your spirit quickened with His life which can never be lost.

Praise the Lord! Amen.