1967 or 1969 marks the decree to rebuild?

[humblehorse]

It seems to me that the vast majority of date-setting hangs from 7th June 1967, where the Jews re-took the temple mount.
Now, I would be in complete agreement with the prophetic significance of this event pointing towards the return of Jesus, but as yet I have not seen any satisfactory information regarding a decree to rebuild Jerusalem stemming from this date.
As for as I can see, the decree to rebuild Jerusalem came from the Knesset on 1st April 1969. And here's a couple of bits of information from 1969 to back that up.
247248

Does this information throw the 2015 to 2022 timeline off??
Or can this information and the 2015 to 2022 co-exist??
Any thoughts?

[Churchwork]

I understand your appeal and it makes sense to me, because obviously the Temple won't be completed by 2015, but you don't need an official decree because this is just a double fulfilment--a like fulfillment of Dan. 9.25. Since Israel is a nation again and has taken over Jerusalem naturally what comes next is the rebuilding of the 3rd Temple.

As long as it is completed with 2300 days left to the end of the Tribulation that's good enough. The temple is cleansed after 2300 days (Dan. 8.14) when Jesus steps down on the mount of olives (Zech. 14.4). There are 2300 days from the 4th day inspection of the lamb April 21, 2016, the day before passover, to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.

It could take as a little as 2 years to build the 3rd Temple. It is 2012 right now. For it to be completed by April 21, 2016 breaking ground on the 3rd Temple would need to begin 2014. It's hard to believe that will happen I know! I will be proven wrong soon enough. Let's assume I am wrong then plan B is in order (see below). It is somewhat disturbing, because I really feel with much evidence in Scripture that Israel is the fig tree (Matt. 24.32,33)

How many days are there from May 9, 1969 to April 21, 2016? 17,150 days not 17,640 days. The 17,640th day from May 9, 1969 is Aug. 24, 2017. Nothing significant on that date. According to your articles for the "Jewish quarter" you get one more year to rebuild the Temple than I do with my dates, but I can't get the 2300 days to fit with your date.

Construction will begin before the end of the seven sets of seven (7 x 7 x 360 = 17,640 days). The seven sevens are from June 7, 1967 when Israel entered Jerusalem to the Day of Atonement Sept. 23, 2015. 2015 is the 2nd year of the Tetrad that lands on passover and tabernacles. If nothing happens 2014/15 that will be really weird!

I do want you to be aware that I could be wrong. I could be wrong about the Tribulation starting Sept. 14, 2015 at Rev. 7.9 "before the throne" before the 1st trumpet (8.7) of the Tribulation if, in fact, Matt. 24.32-33 is referring to among other things the Antichrist and his image in the 3rd Temple (v.15, 2 Thess. 2.4, Rev. 11.2) with 3 1/2 years left rather than Israel a nation again as the fig tree with its branch now tender. But so far everything is on track as best as I can tell.

So I am sticking with plan A for now ("branch is tender" - Israel a nation again) rather than plan B ("branch is tender" - just an analogy to when you see Matt. 24.15 take place).

Thus, the Tribulation remains 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.

Correct me if I am wrong!

[Churchwork]

Isn't it amazing how God so often proves us wrong in our prophecies?

If Plan B is in fact the case then nobody can know when He returns, because He will return beyond all expectations after a lifetime from when Israel was a nation again. And the Tetrads become worthless pieces of information leading to the 2014/15 Tetrad which is to occur right before the Tribulation starts, yet the Tribulation will not have started in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 or 2019. Nor will construction on the 3rd Temple even begin then. Would God leave such a big gap from the Tetrad? It makes no sense.

So all we can do is read Matt. 24.32-33 according to Plan B and consider the Tetrads of no significance after nothing happens in 2015. But how can we do that? Nothing could be more obvious signs in the heavens than the Tetrads for the soon return of our Lord?

The next feast Tetrad is 2582/82. I think we can all agree Israel will have the 3rd Temple built if not by this decade that certainly the next. But that would be over 500 years before the next Tetrad. That's crazy! What that would suggest is that Israel for the next 500 plus years will grow ever so more into a great nation even owning the land to the Euphrates River (Gen. 15.18) as promised.

Picture it! Israel becomes so big and powerful the nations are threatened by Israel. 500 plus years from now the nations come against Israel. I have a problem with that though, because it won't take 500 years to implement the mark of the beast implant to buy or sell. That time is upon us now!

So you can see why I am still very convinced that the Tribulation is Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.

[humblehorse]

Let me start by saying I was on-board for the Sept 23rd 2015 rapture date as far back as 2006, and posted on Five doves with the date back then, but just recently I've 'stumbled' across the April/May 1969 date which has caused me to rethink everything.

I'm going to throw a few things up in the air here, as I have more questions than I do have answers at the moment....!

TETRADS
Regarding the tetrads, I have looked at the 2014/2015 tetrad quite closely, including the fact that's it's 'book ended' by 3 eclipses in 2011 and 2018 marking out a 7 year period. When no Rapture happened in Sept 2011 I looked at it again to see what we might expect, and I saw that the eclipses draw a Menorah pointing towards 2015, and wondered wether we might see the Rebuilding of the temple or the start of Sacrifices again in 2015. (A huge event for the Jews, just like the last two Tetrads)

Tetrads seem to be significant events for Israel, but not necessarily for the church...

WAS ANDERSON CORRECT?
Sir Robert Anderson's interpretation of Daniels 69 weeks may be wrong!!! (Heresy I hear you call!! (c: )

Where does the Bible say we should use 360 day 'prophetic' years? I'm not in denial that the Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar, and works in 30 day months, but I have seen extremely good studies to show how the original Hebrew calendar worked, (i'll dig them out if you want to see them) and they still had 365.24 days in their Solar year! We have no evidence to suggest that a solar year would ever have been 360 days, and also adds together the 7 weeks and 62 weeks to make 69 and goes up to the triumphant entry which seems a very odd interpretation of scripture to me.

Many now use the 'prophetic' year which I'm not sure has any basis in scripture. If anything, Daniel pointing to the 1290 days from the AoD to the 2nd coming seems to suggest a knowledge of the extra months that are added to the modern Jewish calendar. And we now know that Jesus was born Sept 2BC because of the bethlehem star video, and his birthdate for Jesus was 4BC!

DANIELS 62 SEVENS (To my point!)
Looking for answers to this one, I can across a study by a chap called Randy Bullock, who states that Jesus was born in 2BC so all we need to do is back-up 434 Years and we should find a call to Rebuild Jerusalem, and although the bible doesn't give a specific date what we find is stunning!

Nehemiah was given permission to rebuild in the 20th Year of Artaxerxes and remained there for 12 years, which covers the years 445BC to 433BC. A natural reading of the book would appear that the 'decree' was near the end of his 12 year stay on 24 Tishri, if he's correct then in 435BC Nehemiah started building and 434 Solar years later Jesus would have been born...

2300 DAYS
Do the 2300 days run right up to the Glorious appearance of Jesus or does the Antichrist bring 2300 days of Sacrifice to an end at the Abomination of Desolation?
I have not worked it all through yet, to see if it all makes sense and the numbers add up!

In conclusion may I just add that I'm beginning to wonder wether the tribulation will run from 2018 til 2025, I have not worked it all through yet, but I'm not willing to settle for the 2015-2022 timeline until the 1967 or 1969 issue makes sense....

Peace, Love, Rock 'n Roll
humblehorse

[Churchwork]

Let me start by saying I was on-board for the Sept 23rd 2015 rapture date as far back as 2006, and posted on Five doves with the date back then, but just recently I've 'stumbled' across the April/May 1969 date which has caused me to rethink everything.
I have never thought the rapture was Sept. 23, 2015. Day of Atonement doesn't have to do with rapture, but Feast of Trumpets does. Hence, the first rapture according to readiness Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015. Day of Atonement deals with all those saved, not the timing of rapture.


TETRADS
Regarding the tetrads, I have looked at the 2014/2015 tetrad quite closely, including the fact that's it's 'book ended' by 3 eclipses in 2011 and 2018 marking out a 7 year period. When no Rapture happened in Sept 2011 I looked at it again to see what we might expect, and I saw that the eclipses draw a Menorah pointing towards 2015, and wondered wether we might see the Rebuilding of the temple or the start of Sacrifices again in 2015. (A huge event for the Jews, just like the last two Tetrads)
Book ends? Whatever the case you know the Tribulation didn't start in 2011 since the first rapture did not occur. There are no eclipses at the end of the Tribulation but there is before the Tribulation, that is, before the great and terrible day of the Lord according to Joel 2.31, Acts 2.20 and Rev. 6.12. Those celestial events don't occur at the end of the Tribulation. Darkening cloud cover and fallout from a nuclear holocaust should not be construed as eclipses. The Menorah is not pointing to anything I don't think. I saw one site trying to make it produce two book ends but I thought it was reaching.


Tetrads seem to be significant events for Israel, but not necessarily for the church...

WAS ANDERSON CORRECT?
Sir Robert Anderson's interpretation of Daniels 69 weeks may be wrong!!! (Heresy I hear you call!! (c: )

Where does the Bible say we should use 360 day 'prophetic' years? I'm not in denial that the Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar, and works in 30 day months, but I have seen extremely good studies to show how the original Hebrew calendar worked, (i'll dig them out if you want to see them) and they still had 365.24 days in their Solar year! We have no evidence to suggest that a solar year would ever have been 360 days, and also adds together the 7 weeks and 62 weeks to make 69 and goes up to the triumphant entry which seems a very odd interpretation of scripture to me.

The Temple is an integral part of events in the Tribulation to Israel and to the Church for our Jesus returns to reign in the 3rd Temple for 1000 years.

Sir Robert Anderson's interpretation was dead wrong because Jesus was cut off April 1, 33 AD (Gregorian).

Israel had a 360 day years as they were more simpler times. 2,520 is the smallest number divisible by all numbers from 2 to 10. Therefore, you know this is a basic prophetic working unit. Using the 360 day year Ezekiel's prophecy on his side predicted when Israel would become a nation again that it would occur literally May, 1948. Using the 360 day year we know when the Messiah would be cut off. Using the 360 day year we know when the 7 years of the Tribulation take place. 7 out of every 19 years there are 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B'Av and 12 out of 19 years 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement. This is about Jesus' return.

When you see this you see things as I do.


Many now use the 'prophetic' year which I'm not sure has any basis in scripture. If anything, Daniel pointing to the 1290 days from the AoD to the 2nd coming seems to suggest a knowledge of the extra months that are added to the modern Jewish calendar. And we now know that Jesus was born Sept 2BC because of the bethlehem star video, and his birthdate for Jesus was 4BC!
There's problems with that Bethlehem star video. We have the proof for when Jesus was born (see below).


DANIELS 62 SEVENS (To my point!)
Looking for answers to this one, I can across a study by a chap called Randy Bullock, who states that Jesus was born in 2BC so all we need to do is back-up 434 Years and we should find a call to Rebuild Jerusalem, and although the bible doesn't give a specific date what we find is stunning!

Nehemiah was given permission to rebuild in the 20th Year of Artaxerxes and remained there for 12 years, which covers the years 445BC to 433BC. A natural reading of the book would appear that the 'decree' was near the end of his 12 year stay on 24 Tishri, if he's correct then in 435BC Nehemiah started building and 434 Solar years later Jesus would have been born...

The declaration to rebuild the Temple was Nisan 1, 444 BC (read Neh. 2). This takes us to March 28, 33 AD (Gregorian), the 1st day of the 4 day inspection of the lamb on Nisan 10. The 4 day inspection was March 28, 29, 30, 31. Jesus died on the cross Nisan 14, April 1, 33 AD which was a Friday, Passover. It is also called April Fool's Day by Satan to mock His death.

Everything is already proven. Jesus was born Tishri 15, 6 BC. This is proven also. He died on the cross at the age of 37 1/2. If you want to see these proofs just ask.


2300 DAYS
Do the 2300 days run right up to the Glorious appearance of Jesus or does the Antichrist bring 2300 days of Sacrifice to an end at the Abomination of Desolation?
I have not worked it all through yet, to see if it all makes sense and the numbers add up!

In conclusion may I just add that I'm beginning to wonder wether the tribulation will run from 2018 til 2025, I have not worked it all through yet, but I'm not willing to settle for the 2015-2022 timeline until the 1967 or 1969 issue makes sense....

Peace, Love, Rock 'n Roll
humblehorse
The Antichrist does not take away sacrifices at the 1st day of the 2300 days, but in the middle of the Tribulation. The Temple is dirty because Jesus doesn't institute animal sacrifices. This is not His will, but the Jews do it anyway. His presence on earth is the most cleansing of all acts for the Temple.

It all makes sense to me. The only question for me is whether Matt. 24.32-33 is just an analogy to when the Antichrist comes or does it refer to when Israel becomes a nation again. It most certainly has to do with a peace treaty, a completed Temple and the Antichrist if it doesn't refer to Israel a nation again.

If the Tribulation is 2018-25 that is more than a lifetime when Israel became a nation, and for this reason alone I do not consider that "right the door" (Matt. 24.33).

Also the sign of the Son of Man is Jupiter (Matt. 24.30) closest to earth in hundreds of years. Apparently it will sparkle because of comets hitting its surface. I got this from NASA's site. In 2022 the planets are in 1/3 quadrant also. The last time that I know of this happening was WW I and WW II. Crazy stuff!

That's how I see things, and I don't know how to disprove anything I have said. I can understand your desire to push back the Tribulation because it is so hard to believe it is nearly upon us even given world circumstances that it would begin Sept. 14, 2015 Feast of Trumpets.

Will the mark of the beast implant be implemented in time in the second half of this decade? I doubt it.

Will construction of the 3rd Temple begin by 2014 so it can be done by 2016? I doubt it.

Will a peace treaty with Israel come in 2015 by the forerunner to the Antichrist? I doubt it.

We know with 100% certainty what the 3 events in Rev. 6.12 are that are suppose to occur in precise order before the Tribulation (2010/11, Nov. 3, 2013 and 2014/15 in exact order).

When is oil going over $200? Not this year or the next.

When is the US Dollar Index going to a brand new low? Not this year or the next.

[humblehorse]

Please bring me up to speed...

The declaration to rebuild the Temple was Nisan 1, 444 BC
&
Jesus was born Tishri 15, 6 BC
Can you send me to links or put the info here?

And your answers for why we use the 360 day year all come from assumptions, have a look at http://www.360calendar.com/ and let me know what you think.

[Churchwork]

Birth of Jesus Tishri 15, 6 BC,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/triangulating.htm

Jesus died April 1, 33 AD (Gregorian) on a lunar eclipse,
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheTimeofYourVisitation.html
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/70-weeks-6.html

There is no assumptions. Israel used the 360 day year and every couple of years added back an extra 30 days.

[Churchwork]

Birth of Jesus Tishri 15, 6 BC,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/triangulating.htm

Jesus died April 1, 33 AD (Gregorian) on a lunar eclipse,
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheTimeofYourVisitation.html
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/70-weeks-6.html

There are no assumptions. Israel used the 360 day year and every couple of years added back an extra 30 days. No matter what calendar method you use, a day is still a day. Worrying about what the correct calendar is silly. They are all right. And clearly 1260 days is 7 x 360. There are various ways to prove the Bible wants us to concern ourselves with the prophetic year of 360 days, but I like the fact that Ezekiel's prophecy on his side using the 360 day year takes us to May, 1948,
http://biblocality.com/forums/content.php?169-Ezekiel-s-Vision-Predicted-When-Israel-Would-Become-a-Nation-Again

Like I said the only real issue before us is whether Matt. 24.32-33 is referring to when Israel was a nation again or is it referring to when the Antichrist is the Temple in the last 3 1/2 years (v.15)? It just seems strange to me these two verses would just be an analogy to when the Antichrist and surrounding events come and not referring to Israel, because Jesus was just before cursing the fig tree as Israel which had outward showing of leaves but no life since it bore no fruit.

Did you know that 2015 is the 120th Jubilee of 6000 years?
http://biblocality.com/forums/content.php?171-120-Jubilees-from-3986-to-2015

Petrus Romanus is about to be the next Pope who is the 666th Pope (112th Pope) by adding up the Roman numerals. He is suppose to be the False Prophet that brings in the Antichrist. And according to the prophecy of the popes, they are suppose to reign on average 11 years. Some popes were murdered so that 11 year average could be maintained. Others reigned longer than they ought to to keep the average going. The existing pope must be replaced in 2012 to maintain that 11 year average. It is crazy and evil I think.

I believe the Cardinals have been electing Popes to match up with their coat of arms.

But I am looking forward to the existing pope to not be replaced until after 2012 so the prophecy fails.

In this prophecy Rome on 7 hills is suppose to be destroyed, not necessarily 2012 but during the reign of this 112th pope.

The only necessary qualification for the 112th pope is he has to be Italian. He doesn't have to be named Peter as all popes are considered sitting on the throne of Peter.

[humblehorse]

I do agree with a lot of what you've said in your previous posts, regarding stopping sacrifices, Peter the final pope, rebuilt temples, etc... I think we're pretty much on the same page regarding what's to come, but I would be a little more cautious about using phrases like 'There are no assumptions' when dealing with the past!

I checked out your birth of Jesus dates, and I have to say that the Bethlehem star video wins hands down for accuracy and true cosmic signs over and above speculation over who might have lived and died, and what they did at what point!! You can't argue with the heavens... Herod's date of death is unknown, all we really know is that Josephus said he died the day after an eclipse, and there was a total eclipse in 1BC and a partial one in 4BC, also when the bible refers to Herod it doesn't always mean Herod the great, it could equally be his 3 Herod sons that ruled after him.

The Blood moon that occurs over Jerusalem at the Crucifixion was on April 3rd 33AD, so you're only 2 days out. - Good call!

I've thought hard about this bit!
Regarding the 360 day year, I've been thinking... Firstly, yes during the times of Noah there were 360 days per year, but it appears this had changed by the time of the Exodus, according to the Talmud. And it would also appear from very early writings that the sun used to rise in the West and set in the East!?

Lets say that the earth used to spin slightly slower, so only rotated 360 times during one orbit of the sun, and it's now sped up so that it rotates 365.24 times in one orbit of the sun... The length of the year remains unchanged, it's just the amount of days that has changed because the earth spins faster.

Your calculations are suggesting that Earth is hurtling through space slower than it was, still spinning at it's original speed... which one would seem more likely???

If it's the first option, then a year remains the same length, if it's the 2nd option then time is slower, not faster like the 360 to 365.24 day conversion would give you...
Don't just ignore this 'cos it takes a little while to get your head round it!

The answer is, I do not know the answers to these questions and neither do you, so truly you have made assumptions....

Peace & Love Brother (I'm assuming)
humblehorse

[Churchwork]

Birth of Jesus
You can disagree all you want, but if you have no good reason for doing so then check your heart. Don't worry about what Joseph said, stick with your Bible. What does it say? He is not a Christian and was quite far removed from the birth of Jesus. And besides, there are partial and total solar and lunar eclipses happening all the time, all together, as many as 7 per year.
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEcat5/SE-0099-0000.html
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEcat5/LE-0099-0000.html (http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEcat5/LE-0099-0000.html)

Jesus was born on Tishri 15, but no solar or lunar eclipse on that date in your prescribed years for His birth. The full proof was supplied. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/triangulating.htm

That video you keep addressing is definitely false. I have seen it. It is impossible for Jesus to have been born after 4 BC, that is 4 BC, 3 BC, 2 BC, etc. There is no question about what Herod we are talking about.

We know Jesus would have been about 2-3 years old around 4 BC when He and his parents returned to Israel from Egypt because Herod had died, and the angel would have told Joseph and Mary as soon as Herod died.

Even Richard Carrier, a non-Christian, admits "Even after the civil wars were ended, Augustus was only able to complete three of the general censuses in his long reign." These were taken in 28 B.C., 8 B.C., and 14 A.D. [Augustus says this too in his own writings as some of his major accomplishments].

Assuming it takes about a year or so for the news to get to the people that they need to return to their home towns to take the census, this places the birth of Jesus one to two years after 8 BC and 2 years before 4 BC which brings us to 7-6 BC.

Jesus was born at the time of the census because Luke writes, "At that time the Roman emperor, Augustus decreed that a census should be taken throughout the Roman Empire" (2.1); and,

"All returned to their own towns to register for this census. And because Joseph was a descendant of King David, he had to go to Bethlehem in Judea, David's ancient home. He traveled there from the village of Nazareth in Galilee. He took with him Mary, his fiancee, who was obviously pregnant by this time. And while they were there, the time came for her baby to be born. She gave birth to her first child, a son. She wrapped him snuggly in strips of cloth and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the village in" (2.4-7).


Jesus' Death
April 3, 33 AD is the Julian calendar. I gave the Gregorian calendar date of the partial lunar eclipse April 1, 33 AD when Jesus died. It's the same day, just two different calenders.


360 Day Year
The 360 day year is not about the earth speeding up or slowing down. How silly. It was just for ease of calculation. Every couple of years they would add an extra 30 days to balance things out.


Dumb Comments
I really want to remove your post because it is kind of mindless. I know you are assuming. It's probably better you don't post unless you are 100% sure about what you are saying because even then you will be wrong often. Now, you are almost always wrong in everything you write. That's too much!

These forums are for well thought out intellectual and spiritual comments that provide evidence of Scripture. I don't want to dumb down these forums with comments like you just made. See the bad effect all that rock music you play is having on you! It dumbs you down.