Parture
07-05-2011, 05:20 PM
Re: revulayshun @ YouTube
"Regeneration is by God not man, but that doesn't mean God doesn't require your choice."
Jesus uses physical birth as a paralell to the second birth. What choice were you required or even able to make concerning your first birth? When Nicodemus questioned Jesus as to how a man could be born again, Jesus told Him that the second birth was like the wind....something the individual could not control or predict. One can only perceive its effect. According to john 3:3, 5 , &7 one cannot see, or enter the kingdom UNLESS one IS born again. How does one enter the kingdom? Is it not through repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ? Well, according to Jesus, one cannot do that unless one is born again. Repentance and faith are the result, not the cause, of regeneration. John 6:44 says that no one can come to Christ unless the Father draws Him. He goes on to say that all those who are thus drawn are raised up, so this drawing does not happen to evry person, else every person would be saved.
"What you are taking away from God is allowing Him to give us the choice "
And what you are taking away from God is His right to chose those whom He wants to save. Left to our own, none of us would choose Christ. God garnts the new birth and a new heart to those whom He wills, and all of those then repent and believe.
God bless,
Greg
Jesus doesn't parallel the spiritual birth to the physical birth. Rather, Nicodemus confused the physical birth with being born-again. Nicodemus said, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" (John 3.4) Jesus distinguished the spiritual birth as unlike the physical birth: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (v.6).
I can't predict if you will give your life to the Christ and receive the wooing of the Holy Spirit. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (v.8). But this doesn't mean that you don't have the choice.
The choice is before like was for ancient Israel, as Jesus said, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" (v.14). Those who looked to the pole and the serpent on the pole they would be healed of their infection. Hence, "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (v.15).
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (v.16). Because you do not believe in Him by worship a false Christ you will perish and not receive everlasting life but everlasting perdition in the lake of fire, an eternal conscious awareness of separation from your Creator.
John 3.3,5,7 are not saying you can't come to the cross, but that you can't enter the kingdom (millennial kingdom) unless you are born-again. How bizarrely you twist the Scriptures. To be born-again you will need to repent to the cross as a helpless sinner and receive the Lord Jesus as Savior. But those who love the darkness do not come to the light. They produce another gospel foreign to what we who are saved received. Those in the darkness even say they can't because they erect an idol called total depravity which says they can't, so they don't. There are no Scriptures for Total depravity and the insufficient grace of God. Irresistible grace is deficient grace.
You even admit you never gave your life to Christ, for you said, "How does one enter the kingdom? Is it not through repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ?" Since you never gave your life to Christ, God does not regenerate you (new birth). Repentance is never forced on someone. Someone made to do something against their will is of the same opinion still. First you will need to repent to the cross as a helpless sinner to be regenerated (born-again) then God will begin to change you and guide you and bring you into awareness to repent of sins you are not aware of that you committed. Because you do not genuinely come to the cross, you are as dead as ever to God. God does not know you.
John 6.44 doesn't say everyone drawn is saved, for obviously many drawn "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). This verse says that in order to be saved one first must be drawn, not that everyone drawn is saved. You are drawn but remain unsaved. 2 Pet. 2.21 says you came close to the door of salvation yet turn away, thus were never born-again. You drew back unto perdition. "God is the Savior of ALL MEN [grace sufficient for all], specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10) NOT "Savior of of some men in different places" for that would be redundantly nonsensical. Do you see that? "Savior of men in all places, specially those who believe" makes no sense to say "specially those who believe" since those men in those places do believe. That would be like say there are tellers in all the grocery stores, specially the tellers in the grocery stores.
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him [sufficient grace of God]: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6.44).
John 6.44 is a very logical if/then statement. (A) cannot happen unless (B) occurs, and If (A) then (C). It does not say (A) always happens when (B) occurs. You are not allowed to remove the sufficient grace of God to all men, dying on the cross for the sins of the whole world (Savior of all men) and pleading with all men, giving the gospel to all.
(A) Come to Jesus
(B) Draw him
(C) Raised up
"Regeneration is by God not man, but that doesn't mean God doesn't require your choice."
Jesus uses physical birth as a paralell to the second birth. What choice were you required or even able to make concerning your first birth? When Nicodemus questioned Jesus as to how a man could be born again, Jesus told Him that the second birth was like the wind....something the individual could not control or predict. One can only perceive its effect. According to john 3:3, 5 , &7 one cannot see, or enter the kingdom UNLESS one IS born again. How does one enter the kingdom? Is it not through repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ? Well, according to Jesus, one cannot do that unless one is born again. Repentance and faith are the result, not the cause, of regeneration. John 6:44 says that no one can come to Christ unless the Father draws Him. He goes on to say that all those who are thus drawn are raised up, so this drawing does not happen to evry person, else every person would be saved.
"What you are taking away from God is allowing Him to give us the choice "
And what you are taking away from God is His right to chose those whom He wants to save. Left to our own, none of us would choose Christ. God garnts the new birth and a new heart to those whom He wills, and all of those then repent and believe.
God bless,
Greg
Jesus doesn't parallel the spiritual birth to the physical birth. Rather, Nicodemus confused the physical birth with being born-again. Nicodemus said, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" (John 3.4) Jesus distinguished the spiritual birth as unlike the physical birth: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (v.6).
I can't predict if you will give your life to the Christ and receive the wooing of the Holy Spirit. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (v.8). But this doesn't mean that you don't have the choice.
The choice is before like was for ancient Israel, as Jesus said, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" (v.14). Those who looked to the pole and the serpent on the pole they would be healed of their infection. Hence, "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (v.15).
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (v.16). Because you do not believe in Him by worship a false Christ you will perish and not receive everlasting life but everlasting perdition in the lake of fire, an eternal conscious awareness of separation from your Creator.
John 3.3,5,7 are not saying you can't come to the cross, but that you can't enter the kingdom (millennial kingdom) unless you are born-again. How bizarrely you twist the Scriptures. To be born-again you will need to repent to the cross as a helpless sinner and receive the Lord Jesus as Savior. But those who love the darkness do not come to the light. They produce another gospel foreign to what we who are saved received. Those in the darkness even say they can't because they erect an idol called total depravity which says they can't, so they don't. There are no Scriptures for Total depravity and the insufficient grace of God. Irresistible grace is deficient grace.
You even admit you never gave your life to Christ, for you said, "How does one enter the kingdom? Is it not through repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ?" Since you never gave your life to Christ, God does not regenerate you (new birth). Repentance is never forced on someone. Someone made to do something against their will is of the same opinion still. First you will need to repent to the cross as a helpless sinner to be regenerated (born-again) then God will begin to change you and guide you and bring you into awareness to repent of sins you are not aware of that you committed. Because you do not genuinely come to the cross, you are as dead as ever to God. God does not know you.
John 6.44 doesn't say everyone drawn is saved, for obviously many drawn "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). This verse says that in order to be saved one first must be drawn, not that everyone drawn is saved. You are drawn but remain unsaved. 2 Pet. 2.21 says you came close to the door of salvation yet turn away, thus were never born-again. You drew back unto perdition. "God is the Savior of ALL MEN [grace sufficient for all], specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10) NOT "Savior of of some men in different places" for that would be redundantly nonsensical. Do you see that? "Savior of men in all places, specially those who believe" makes no sense to say "specially those who believe" since those men in those places do believe. That would be like say there are tellers in all the grocery stores, specially the tellers in the grocery stores.
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him [sufficient grace of God]: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6.44).
John 6.44 is a very logical if/then statement. (A) cannot happen unless (B) occurs, and If (A) then (C). It does not say (A) always happens when (B) occurs. You are not allowed to remove the sufficient grace of God to all men, dying on the cross for the sins of the whole world (Savior of all men) and pleading with all men, giving the gospel to all.
(A) Come to Jesus
(B) Draw him
(C) Raised up