Atheist Experience Show Still Contacting Me About Show #675 After All This Time

[Parture]

Re: Pastor @ atheistexperienceshow


According to your logic Parture, it's impossible for God to have created us. If God has existed for eternity, than there's no way he could have created us [however many years ago we were created] because an infinite amount of time existed before we were created.

My whole life hasn't been wasted as an atheist because I wasn't an atheist my whole life. I "found Jesus" in my teenage years even though I wasn't brought up with much religion. I heavily involved in Christianity in my late high school and early college years. I would cry out to God to strip me of my sinful flesh and make instrument of his will, strip me of my pride and earthly desires, and glorify only his name. I walk around my secular campus and share the gospel (by myself, I didn't have many church friends). I even preached on secular campus's. It wasn't until I decided to study apologetics and read my bible in order to defend my faith (1 Peter 3:15) and win more souls that I realized I had no good reason to believe any of this.

Even if you did prove some sort of divine creator, you're argument shatters at "Since a God who is accessible and personal is better". What does "what is better" have anything to do with the truth? Its a non sequitur.

And to the people of Atheist Experience, I don't mean to keep arguing on a 5 month old post. I can continue if you're enjoying it, otherwise I apologize, I don't mean to waste your time.
Your infinite regress doesn't work, because if it were true, you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. But with God, since He exists outside of time and space, He is not subject to your fanciful alleged infinite regress of time, so you lose on that point.

That's funny, you were preaching your gospel before you even read the Bible. Obviously, you worshiped a false Christ, were never born-again to begin with, were only deluding yourself, for the Bible defines a Christian explicitly that those who are truly saved, truly born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). That's once-saved-always-saved. Hence, you would never have been born-again even if you thought you were. So what happened to you is more like 2 Pet. 2.21, "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." This verse doesn't say you lost your salvation, but that you had known at least to some extent about Jesus in the way of righteousness, yet refused to walk through that door of salvation, for you clearly worshiped a false Christ.

This verse says it would have been better you never even heard of Jesus because though you came close to the door of salvation, you never walked in. You're what is called s the unsaved tare trying to look like the saved wheat in Matt. 13, but never were you ever born-again to begin with. You tried to enter God's kingdom by your own self-strength, as you listed several efforts you boasted about. That's not how salvation works. This is something you have never understood. The reason why it would have been better you never heard of Christ is because now your punishment in Hell will be worse than it would be otherwise, for you were graced with coming close to the door, yet rejected the One True God and Jesus Christ for a false Christ.

As to God being better, better always trumps the not better. That's just a fact. There is no circular statement here. Since your god or some other god can't do what God of the Bible does, then God of the Bible is the One True God. The lesser can never create the greater. But if you don't like that top down approach, that's why I gave you the bottom up one also in which you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs, thus proving Jesus is who He says He is, God, the first and the last.

My prayers is that in our discussion, though I would prefer to talk about it at biblocality forums because the format on this blog is terrible, is that you come to Christ because not only is God proven but who God is is proven also. Amen.

[Parture]

Crap... you know what, all of the people who were supposedly saved in the New Testament were worshiping a false Christ too. The books of the Bible hadn't been written yet, they just heard the gospel from someone else, just like I did from a youth pastor. I demand that, in the interest of saving as many souls as possible, that you no longer let any youth group remember, deacon, pastor, or member of your congregation share the gospel (or preach) until they have read from Genesis to Revelations.

When I got saved, I wept like a little girl. I was at a Cracker Barrel with a youth pastor, he told me gospel, I open my heart and joy filled it. You see, and when I was a Christian, I knew I was saved. Not because I prayed a prayer, or because someone told me so, but because Jesus had died for me. "Only something of infinite worth could atone for infinite punishment. No a prayer, not because my youth pastor told me, but because JESUS DIED FOR ME", as I use to preach (before I had read the WHOLE Bible). I knew it was nothing that I could do, Christ's sacrifice alone was the only atonement for my sin, and the burden had been lifted. I could tell by my fruit, as it says in Matthew. I spread the gospel to a lot a people on my local campus, a few even came to know Christ.

Of course, this is all predicated on the presumption that it is all true. All I'm going to say about the "not being a Christian" is: No True Scotsman.

I'm not suggesting infinite regress, I'm saying: I dunno how the universe got here but infinite regress for the universe has the same implications for your God as it does the universe. You've solved nothing by turning your brain off saying the solution is something uncomprehending, a God outside the universe. I could just as easily say: "Actually, there's a Super God that creates Gods. Super God exists outside the "outside universe" that the God of the Bible exists in. Super God is the one true God and he is just testing us with all the lesser gods her created".
You're a goofball when you say those in the Bible worshiped a false Christ. They define what it is to be in Christ for they spent three years with Jesus and were with Him 40 days from His resurrection. These are the original disciples. As for others like Luke who may not have seen Jesus was a close worker with several of the original Apostles who set up the churches based on the appearances of Jesus alive from the dead. All the NT texts were written on time, nothing to suggest any late dating. I agree you should read the entire Bible before you start preaching to a local church. That would be the minimum standard.

When you thought you got saved, you opened your heart to a false Christ. I had a similar experience so I know what you are going through. Ten years before I truly got saved I also cried a cracker barrel too and thought I was in the fold for 30 days, but after that month was up, I rejected it, challenged the one who prompted me in the first place, and he could not answer my questions. So I didn't think about it even once for ten years until that wonderful and blessed day I realized all things summed up in Christ. What happens to a lot of people is what happened to you and me, and we were not saved back then, because it is not an emotional appeal, but spirit must make contact with Spirit. Regeneration must truly take place in the spirit in which case then you can never be lost just as the Bible says. I freely concede I was not born-again that 10 years prior, but when I truly realized all things summed up in Christ, it was then and only then I was born-again and received eternal life which could never be lost. Praise the Lord!

You're not applying the No True Scotsman fallacy correctly. So that's where I come in to help you.

Teacher: All Scotsmen enjoy haggis.
Student: My uncle is a Scotsman, and he doesn't like haggis!
Teacher: Well, all true Scotsmen like haggis.

God: All Christians have eternal life which can never be lost (here is the proof...).
False Christian: I was a Christian once.
God: Well, all Christians can't lose eternal life so you were never a Christian.

If the statement "All Christians have eternal life which can never be lost" is qualified to exclude otherwise without proving the statement then this would be a form of begging the question. But since Jesus is proven to be God and it is proven that this is what Jesus taught, we can be confident you were never a Christian.

You're avoiding what was already said. It was already said infinite regress would not apply to God because God exists outside of time, as there can only be one uncreated Creator.

Don't think God is unknowable, for He reveals Himself to us entering His creation as proven by His resurrection.

What you are proposing is called "Deism" where the God of the Bible would be created by the actual uncreated Creator rendering the God of the Bible a liar who claims to be the uncreated Creator, but the problem with that approach is that, as we have seen before, is that an atonement cannot be achieved by a lesser god, for only the actual uncreated Creator could atone for sins, since it requires a perfect solution - God no less.

Moreover, God is personal since we are personal, and God can't be less than us. Your ultimate Creator would be impersonal, because he remains an absentee landlord and does not personally interact or reveal Himself with us but leaves that up to one of his created beings. So that theory of yours fails on its head. On top of that the Creator would never allow an evil being to atone for sins either, so you contradict yourself there also.

You're a fool for the Devil.