Nottheworld
12-24-2010, 05:11 PM
Re: Gary Turner
1. I don't buy your 45 days from Palm Sunday since clearly the 40 days of seeing Jesus was from Sunday to Ascension Thursday. That's right - the 40 days of seeing Jesus was from Sunday to Ascension Thursday, but from Palm Sunday to Good Friday was an additional 5 days in which Jesus was seen, making a total of 45.
The 4 days of inspection of the lamb was from Monday to Thursday (Julian) March 30, 31, April 1, 2. Jesus died on the cross April 3, Fri. You agree there are 40 days from Sunday to the Thursday (40th day later). 5 days more would be from Tuesday to Saturday prior to resurrection, or if you exclude Saturday then 4 days. But if you include Palm Sunday that would be 2 more days so that would be 47 days not 45. In either case it is irrelevant because Jesus arrived into Jerusalem on Monday not Sunday and the days from Sunday to Saturday before His resurrection have nothing to do with His 40 days of being resurrected prior to His ascension.
Thus, your application of the 45 days is totally fallacious and does not take into account the obvious need to properly address the 1260th to the 1290th (30 days more) and then to the 1335th day (45 days more). The last half of the Tribulation is 1260 days when Jesus steps down on the mount of olives at the end of the 1260 days (Tisha B'Av, Aug. 7, 2022). He judges the nations for 30 days then sets up Israel as the center of all nations on the 1335th day (Oct 21, 2022). There are 4 day type inspection from Oct. 18, 2022 (Simchat Torah) to Oct. 21, 2022.
2. 1290 is distinct from 1260 as 30 days more needed for Jesus to judge the nations when He steps down on the mount of olives on 1260th day Av 10, Aug. 7, 2022.That's an interesting idea - but where do you get the date of Aug. 7, 2022 from?From the Total Lunar Tetrad (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/return_of_Jesus.htm). There is no other possible date for Jesus' return. His parousia is from Sept. 14, 2015 Feast of Trumpets to Aug. 7, 2022 Tisha B'Av, exactly 2,520 days (7 x 360). I like that number because it is the smallest number divisible by all numbers from 2 to 10.
3. Abomination is set up in the Temple not the Temptation. Ah, but Jesus's body is the temple (see John 2:21).
Yes Jesus said He would raise His body, His temple, the 3rd day but that is not the only temple. Our bodies are temples. And there is the Temple of Jerusalem. Which temple is being spoken of that will have in it the abomination? There can be no abomination in the Holy Place of Jesus. He is God. The Holy Place is the Temple or Jerusalem then. "Overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" (Dan. 9.27) is an idol in the Temple. How can Jesus have in Himself an idol? Doesn't make sense.
4. To seal the day just read Dan. 9.24. Has there really been an end of sins? Are things really reconciled? On the cross Jesus did away with sin once for all (Heb. 9:26) and reconciled us to God (Rom. 5:10).
Heb. 9.26 says, "hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." Obviously, people still sin so this refers not to the eradication of sin (Dan. 9.24) in the millennial kingdom-to-come, but power over sin in Christians, and even at that, only spiritual Christians for many carnal Christians are still in sin. Jesus reconciles us to God, but the world remains in darkness. There needs be regeneration of the world (Matt. 19.28) not just saints (Tit. 3.5).
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness [millennial kingdom], and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy [3rd Temple]" (Dan. 9.24).
The end of this age can be seen from Jesus to His second coming if you lived in those days. I propose to you an immorality in your heart (don't take offense) because you consider this time now of wars and rumors of wars, 200 million killed in the 20th century alone, as "everlasting righteousness," "reconciliation for inequity," end of troubles for the holy city, end of "transgressions," and "end of sins". Where has the prophecy been fulfilled in Rev. 9.16 of 200 million military units in the middle east? Where have 1/3 of the people earth died in nuclear holocaust from 9.18? and how is the Holy Place now anointed?
Even if we grant Matthew 24.6 as being before 70 AD which says " ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars," it would still be after Jesus' death on the cross. Then much time later we read, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) (v.15). Clearly you must now agree with me that this is referring to the coming Tribulation and has nothing to do with His death on the cross.
6. Where was a covenant made for 7 years? Nowhere. The covenant was for one week. Dan. 9:27 Says "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week." By riding into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, Christ was giving the Temple authorities an opportunity (a covenant) to repent of their ways. Throughout the following week, He debated with them, but they did not repent. One week after He had entered the city, he had risen from the dead and the covenant was over.
The word "week" is not specified; instead it means "unit of seven". The question is then is it a week or 7 years? We are told after 7 weeks and 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off. That's what happened from 444 BC Nisan 1 to Nisan 14, April 1 (Gregorian). 49 years x 360 days per year takes us to Mar. 28, 33 AD., the first day of the 4 day inspection of the Lamb when Jesus entered Jerusalem.
According to you 62 weeks is a little over a year and then there is another week. But surely Jesus ministered for more than a year. If Jesus was cut off in the middle of the week, wouldn't it mean than He would have to enter Jerusalem on a Tuesday or a Wednesday and not a Sunday or a Monday?
You could even make an argument He was cut off on Thursday when He was captured by the Jews.
Who makes a covenant for one week? "People of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city". Jesus does not destroy the city, but the people (Romans) of the Antichrist who is to come. Jesus sets "the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate"? Doesn't make sense.
At least you are not definite on whatyou have been saying so I won't accuse of you replacing the Antichrist with Jesus.
7. John's ministry was not three and a half years. I didn't say it was. I said that it is likely that the total length of John's and Jesus's ministries was three and a half years. Lk. 3: 1-2 tells us that John the Baptist started preaching in the 15th year of the Emperor Tiberius’s reign. Tiberius became emperor in AD 14, so John’s ministry began in AD 29. If Jesus died in April AD 33, that's about three and a half years.
So if Jesus ministry was three and half years that would be 182 weeks not 69 weeks. Even if John ministered for 1 year before he died in 29 AD before Jesus started, that would still be two and a half years or 130 weeks for Jesus' ministry. Not 69 weeks. So again, this preterist perspective does not fit.
8. When Jesus speaks of the abomination in Matt. 24.15 that's after he was tempted for 40 days, so again that doesn't fit your theory. I agree that the abomination spoken of in Dan. 9:27, Dan. 12:11 and Matt. 24.15 may not be the "abomination" of Christ's temptation in the wilderness, but there is an interesting parallel here. Perhaps the abomination in the wilderness is just a "type" of the final abomination? A lot of what I have said is just my own thoughts on the matter. I could easily be wrong!
Perhaps temptation in the wilderness is just the temptation in the wilderness and has nothing to do with the abomination; therefore, the the 70th week is actually 7 years at the end of this age. It is Jacob's Trouble, The Tribulation, the parousia of Christ, and the consummation of this age when the Antichrist makes a peace treat for 7 years then breaks it in middle, because Prince William becomes possessed by Nero Antichrist. I am convinced with 70,000,000 to 1 chance I am right the Tribulation comes Sept. 14, 2015 for 2,520 days to Aug. 7, 2022.
9. Jesus would have been born Sept., 6 BC. Using http://www.abdicate.net/cal.aspx, enter 25, September -6 into the "Gregorian" boxes and click on "Gregorian". This shows Sept. 25, 6 BC to be Tishri 15, in the Jewish year 3756. Tishri 15 is the Feast of Tabernacles, so if Jesus was born at the Feast of Tabernacles. it would have been Sept. 25. not Sept. 6.
Hope that helps.
GaryThanks. I could accept that date of Sept. 25, 6 BC when Jesus was born (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/triangulating#born).
1. I don't buy your 45 days from Palm Sunday since clearly the 40 days of seeing Jesus was from Sunday to Ascension Thursday. That's right - the 40 days of seeing Jesus was from Sunday to Ascension Thursday, but from Palm Sunday to Good Friday was an additional 5 days in which Jesus was seen, making a total of 45.
The 4 days of inspection of the lamb was from Monday to Thursday (Julian) March 30, 31, April 1, 2. Jesus died on the cross April 3, Fri. You agree there are 40 days from Sunday to the Thursday (40th day later). 5 days more would be from Tuesday to Saturday prior to resurrection, or if you exclude Saturday then 4 days. But if you include Palm Sunday that would be 2 more days so that would be 47 days not 45. In either case it is irrelevant because Jesus arrived into Jerusalem on Monday not Sunday and the days from Sunday to Saturday before His resurrection have nothing to do with His 40 days of being resurrected prior to His ascension.
Thus, your application of the 45 days is totally fallacious and does not take into account the obvious need to properly address the 1260th to the 1290th (30 days more) and then to the 1335th day (45 days more). The last half of the Tribulation is 1260 days when Jesus steps down on the mount of olives at the end of the 1260 days (Tisha B'Av, Aug. 7, 2022). He judges the nations for 30 days then sets up Israel as the center of all nations on the 1335th day (Oct 21, 2022). There are 4 day type inspection from Oct. 18, 2022 (Simchat Torah) to Oct. 21, 2022.
2. 1290 is distinct from 1260 as 30 days more needed for Jesus to judge the nations when He steps down on the mount of olives on 1260th day Av 10, Aug. 7, 2022.That's an interesting idea - but where do you get the date of Aug. 7, 2022 from?From the Total Lunar Tetrad (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/return_of_Jesus.htm). There is no other possible date for Jesus' return. His parousia is from Sept. 14, 2015 Feast of Trumpets to Aug. 7, 2022 Tisha B'Av, exactly 2,520 days (7 x 360). I like that number because it is the smallest number divisible by all numbers from 2 to 10.
3. Abomination is set up in the Temple not the Temptation. Ah, but Jesus's body is the temple (see John 2:21).
Yes Jesus said He would raise His body, His temple, the 3rd day but that is not the only temple. Our bodies are temples. And there is the Temple of Jerusalem. Which temple is being spoken of that will have in it the abomination? There can be no abomination in the Holy Place of Jesus. He is God. The Holy Place is the Temple or Jerusalem then. "Overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" (Dan. 9.27) is an idol in the Temple. How can Jesus have in Himself an idol? Doesn't make sense.
4. To seal the day just read Dan. 9.24. Has there really been an end of sins? Are things really reconciled? On the cross Jesus did away with sin once for all (Heb. 9:26) and reconciled us to God (Rom. 5:10).
Heb. 9.26 says, "hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." Obviously, people still sin so this refers not to the eradication of sin (Dan. 9.24) in the millennial kingdom-to-come, but power over sin in Christians, and even at that, only spiritual Christians for many carnal Christians are still in sin. Jesus reconciles us to God, but the world remains in darkness. There needs be regeneration of the world (Matt. 19.28) not just saints (Tit. 3.5).
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness [millennial kingdom], and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy [3rd Temple]" (Dan. 9.24).
The end of this age can be seen from Jesus to His second coming if you lived in those days. I propose to you an immorality in your heart (don't take offense) because you consider this time now of wars and rumors of wars, 200 million killed in the 20th century alone, as "everlasting righteousness," "reconciliation for inequity," end of troubles for the holy city, end of "transgressions," and "end of sins". Where has the prophecy been fulfilled in Rev. 9.16 of 200 million military units in the middle east? Where have 1/3 of the people earth died in nuclear holocaust from 9.18? and how is the Holy Place now anointed?
Even if we grant Matthew 24.6 as being before 70 AD which says " ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars," it would still be after Jesus' death on the cross. Then much time later we read, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) (v.15). Clearly you must now agree with me that this is referring to the coming Tribulation and has nothing to do with His death on the cross.
6. Where was a covenant made for 7 years? Nowhere. The covenant was for one week. Dan. 9:27 Says "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week." By riding into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, Christ was giving the Temple authorities an opportunity (a covenant) to repent of their ways. Throughout the following week, He debated with them, but they did not repent. One week after He had entered the city, he had risen from the dead and the covenant was over.
The word "week" is not specified; instead it means "unit of seven". The question is then is it a week or 7 years? We are told after 7 weeks and 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off. That's what happened from 444 BC Nisan 1 to Nisan 14, April 1 (Gregorian). 49 years x 360 days per year takes us to Mar. 28, 33 AD., the first day of the 4 day inspection of the Lamb when Jesus entered Jerusalem.
According to you 62 weeks is a little over a year and then there is another week. But surely Jesus ministered for more than a year. If Jesus was cut off in the middle of the week, wouldn't it mean than He would have to enter Jerusalem on a Tuesday or a Wednesday and not a Sunday or a Monday?
You could even make an argument He was cut off on Thursday when He was captured by the Jews.
Who makes a covenant for one week? "People of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city". Jesus does not destroy the city, but the people (Romans) of the Antichrist who is to come. Jesus sets "the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate"? Doesn't make sense.
At least you are not definite on whatyou have been saying so I won't accuse of you replacing the Antichrist with Jesus.
7. John's ministry was not three and a half years. I didn't say it was. I said that it is likely that the total length of John's and Jesus's ministries was three and a half years. Lk. 3: 1-2 tells us that John the Baptist started preaching in the 15th year of the Emperor Tiberius’s reign. Tiberius became emperor in AD 14, so John’s ministry began in AD 29. If Jesus died in April AD 33, that's about three and a half years.
So if Jesus ministry was three and half years that would be 182 weeks not 69 weeks. Even if John ministered for 1 year before he died in 29 AD before Jesus started, that would still be two and a half years or 130 weeks for Jesus' ministry. Not 69 weeks. So again, this preterist perspective does not fit.
8. When Jesus speaks of the abomination in Matt. 24.15 that's after he was tempted for 40 days, so again that doesn't fit your theory. I agree that the abomination spoken of in Dan. 9:27, Dan. 12:11 and Matt. 24.15 may not be the "abomination" of Christ's temptation in the wilderness, but there is an interesting parallel here. Perhaps the abomination in the wilderness is just a "type" of the final abomination? A lot of what I have said is just my own thoughts on the matter. I could easily be wrong!
Perhaps temptation in the wilderness is just the temptation in the wilderness and has nothing to do with the abomination; therefore, the the 70th week is actually 7 years at the end of this age. It is Jacob's Trouble, The Tribulation, the parousia of Christ, and the consummation of this age when the Antichrist makes a peace treat for 7 years then breaks it in middle, because Prince William becomes possessed by Nero Antichrist. I am convinced with 70,000,000 to 1 chance I am right the Tribulation comes Sept. 14, 2015 for 2,520 days to Aug. 7, 2022.
9. Jesus would have been born Sept., 6 BC. Using http://www.abdicate.net/cal.aspx, enter 25, September -6 into the "Gregorian" boxes and click on "Gregorian". This shows Sept. 25, 6 BC to be Tishri 15, in the Jewish year 3756. Tishri 15 is the Feast of Tabernacles, so if Jesus was born at the Feast of Tabernacles. it would have been Sept. 25. not Sept. 6.
Hope that helps.
GaryThanks. I could accept that date of Sept. 25, 6 BC when Jesus was born (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/triangulating#born).