Churchwork
12-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Re: James Wilbur or Jim Wilbur
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/member.php?1186-Jim-Wilbur
I believed,saw, understood my sin and repented of it, had remorse for it when God opened my mind to the truth. I worship God, which comes about through belief in Jesus Christ our Reemer and Savior, that is the only basis for salvation.
You're a very old man James. Know you don't have much time left to give your life to the right Jesus.
Yet it was alleged to be irresistibly imposed on you to come out of an alleged Total depravity and denied to others to have this irresistibly imposed salvation. How can that be true repentance then since it is forced upon you and there was nothing you could do to resist entrance into the faith of Calvinism? That's not how Christians I know and in the Bible are saved. And so, 1.You refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated by erecting an idol called Total depravity which says you can't so you won't.
Whether or not I have come to some conclusion in the Word of God, which may or may not be correct is decided by the Spirit who is judge of all things. He has promised to guide me to all truth, I believe it, have faith in God to do just that in me, as I am a believer in His Son, I am a son of God.Many people say the Spirit guides then and say Lord, Lord; but the Lord says on that day, He never knew them, as they could not get Scripture to agree with them on salvation for God only saves one way. Hence, 2.You worship a god who sends people to Hell from birth without any opportunity to be saved and they could do nothing about it. What love is this? You worship a god who does not provide sufficient grace to all or is unable (impotent) to. Isn't this what Hitler did to the Jews?
I worship a God who chose graciously to reach down and pluck me out of this perverse generation and saved me to eternal life in Jesus Christ. It is you who are railing your fist at God not I. No it is not what Hitler did.Hitler was a son of the devil, God is who He says He is, even if I don't understand at times why He does what He does. I am thankful to Him, and I will understand all things with I see the Lord face to face.You don't believe Hitler irresistibly condemned the Jews to the gas chambers and imposed his kind of salvation on the Aryan race, so as to deny the comparison of Calvinism and Aryanism? That sounds like the president of Iran denying the Holocaust happened. How is irresistibly forcing you into something, calling that a gift, gracious? Christians do not know this as love but tyrannical. No man can pluck us who are saved out of His hand, but God doesn't pluck us like fish out of an ocean. How evil that would be! Jacob Arminius was an OSASer, that is, he said, he never once taught a person who was born-again could lose salvation. This is 5 point OSAS Arminian: giving your life to God who keeps, preserves, when we know we can't keep ourselves. Whereas in Calvinism you have to 'persevere' for it because it was never your choice. You haven't shown how the god of Calvinism is different than the god of Hitler. Hitler knew he would see his lord face to face, and doesn't understand why he was chosen to irresistible save the Aryan race, nor do the Aryan race understand why they were chosen above all people to be saved just like Calvinists. How could they deep down really be sure they were saved because it was never their choice by the grace of God as so much doubt ensues, not knowing the way. Ergo, 3.You worship an evil tyrant that must irresistibly impose its kind of regeneration on people without giving them the choice (not much of a gift) to genuinely and sincerely enter into a relationship. Isn't this what Hitler did to his Aryan race? I'd hate to be in your family household at any time of the season.
The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth, if you are one of His, you are at the moment ignorant of the knowledge of God, as to who Jesus Christ really is, what He has truly done, and what He has done, for, in and through you for His glory and not our own.The question is not whether God will guide us into all truth for those of us who are saved, but whether God is loving enough to provide sufficient grace to all give us the choice through common and/or special grace of the gospel rather than having to be an impotent tyrant who must like Hitler irresistibly impose salvation on some, denying this imposition on others. Of course, if this is evil for men to behave this way, it is evil for God. A contradiction is a contradiction. We are not in 10,000 years going to find out this was not a contradiction after all. There is no such thing as a square circle or married bachelor. The law of non-contradiction never changes. It is a violation of God's law. Calvinism is a violation of the law of God. The Bible says be 'not doubletongued' (1 Tim. 3.8) so don't be a doubletalker. When you find yourself contradicting yourself as shown here, then stand up for the truth despite your bad habits you have developed and how this makes you feel, but give into reality. I believe this by the word of God such contradictions are wrong, so why don't you? Consequently, 4.Your god contradicts himself with his two wills you claim secretly doesn't want all to be saved but openly says he does. If something is a secret then by definition you can't make any claim about it or if it even exists. The truth be told: God wishes that none should perish, so He does provide sufficient grace to all and does not enact preterition. If all God had to do was provide a person one more ounce of grace to convince him to come to the cross, He would do so. Your god doesn't. And therein lies the difference in the power and transcendence, righteous and holiness of God of the Bible that your god does not have.
Again you fail to understand the Word of God. The unbeliever is not given any kind of hope at all, for they in their lost state, until God decides to quicken them to the truth, or not. The gosple is seen, heard and understood by those whom God has chosen, 'many are called, (but many will not and cannot understand, so it means nothing to them, hope aor otherwise) few are chosen.' These are Jesus Words.How evil that would be for God to force some into believing irregardless of their choice and to pass over others, for God wants none to perish, thus He provides sufficient grace to all that any may be quickened with new life, whosoever is willing. God transcends the god of Calvinism by infinity, for the god of Calvinism is unable to do this or is unwilling. Either way, not God. Jesus brings to the world the Good News which is full of hope, love, peace, long-suffering and forgiveness whosoever is willing to receive His saving grace. A false hope is presented to the Calvinism reprobate for certainly some will take the word of the gospel as true as it is delivered to billions and billions. This is an abusive relationship to be so cruel. What secret hidden cultic teaching is this? Jesus never said He forces Himself on someone, but He said in John 3.16 He died for the sins of the whole world that whosoever is willing may receive His love and mercy. Thank God, God is not like someone with a hook grabbing one of two lads carelessly playing in a whirlpool. But God is like someone who extends a stick out to both lads while they are carelessly playing in the whirlpool or quicksand and says to them if they don't grab on they will die. And so, 5. It's wrong to give people false hope to deliver the gospel to them when your god made them unable to respond. There is no way around this duplicity and charade. Let us pray for the Calvinists for they know not what they are doing and have not come to God with an honest heart so God does not know them; instead they choose to believe in a corrupted facsimile and simulation of God's salvation.
We do not deliver the gospel to the lost, but to those whom God chose before the foundation of the world to be in Christ...He choses, we do not...cannot...We preach to all because we do not know who He has chosen...some will not hear... Sounds like a contradiction for you said you 'do not deliver the gospel to the lost' yet you 'preach to all'!? Which is it, do you deliver the gospel to all or not? Can you feel your head spinning? I see your headiness and it is definitely spinning out of control straight to hell. You admit you have not chosen Christ: 'we do not...cannot'. Thus, you really can't know if you are saved or not, because it is not your choice to receive God's saving grace. That's why you 'persevere' so hard to work for it because you really don't know if you are born-again. Whereas true Christians know we are saved because God gave us the choice and we so chose. God chose us by foreknowing our free-choice. He does the saving. He chose us: looking back upon our new birth we can see we were chosen before the foundations of the world in His infinite foreknowledge, provision and providence. The issue is not whether YOU preach to all because YOU know or don't know who is to be saved. You've missed the point. Take your eyes off of yourself for the moment. The question is, Would a loving God deliver a gospel to people whom He would not give the grace to be able to have the choice to respond? That is called sadism, to prod for someone to do something yet they are not given the means to be able to respond Your god is extending a 30 foot rope to a young child who is 40 feet down a well, and telling her to grab hold of it while blaming her and saying to her abusively, what's wrong with you? Aren't you tall enough, smart enough, old enough, good enough? There are some sick people out there, and they are called Calvinists. That leads to the sixth sin of Calvinism. 6.The god of Calvinism could save all, but doesn't, whereas God of the Bible doesn't save all because most people, with their own volition refuse His love. Case and point: Calvinists. Let's call this the 6 MAJOR SINS OF CALVINISM. A selfish salvation!
I personally have not been selected for Hell, as you said, for I am in Christ Jesus, selected before the foundation of the world to be in Him. Because you cannot know, because God only knows the heart, the spirit of a person.You have revealed your heart, for you admit you did not repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated, but selfishly assumed you were regenerated (called 'stacking the deck') without prior having had to repent and believe in Him to THEN be regenerated. So afraid to give up control of self, even in salvation you assume your salvation! How sad for you. Many people say, Lord, Lord, and the Lord says on that day, He never knew you. Why? Because you don't want to be saved His way, and it is perfectly easy to see, because you exalt yourself in a false salvation that turns people off whom you claim were not given this coercive degeneration. A non-Christian is perfectly justified in saying the god of Calvinism is evil and he does not want to be a Christian on that basis, so he turns away from Christianity by the misrepresentation of the gospel by Calvinists. But God is so loving and gracious, He will show that person the true gospel despite the misrepresentation by TULIPers. Praise the Lord. Amen!
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/member.php?1186-Jim-Wilbur
I believed,saw, understood my sin and repented of it, had remorse for it when God opened my mind to the truth. I worship God, which comes about through belief in Jesus Christ our Reemer and Savior, that is the only basis for salvation.
You're a very old man James. Know you don't have much time left to give your life to the right Jesus.
Yet it was alleged to be irresistibly imposed on you to come out of an alleged Total depravity and denied to others to have this irresistibly imposed salvation. How can that be true repentance then since it is forced upon you and there was nothing you could do to resist entrance into the faith of Calvinism? That's not how Christians I know and in the Bible are saved. And so, 1.You refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated by erecting an idol called Total depravity which says you can't so you won't.
Whether or not I have come to some conclusion in the Word of God, which may or may not be correct is decided by the Spirit who is judge of all things. He has promised to guide me to all truth, I believe it, have faith in God to do just that in me, as I am a believer in His Son, I am a son of God.Many people say the Spirit guides then and say Lord, Lord; but the Lord says on that day, He never knew them, as they could not get Scripture to agree with them on salvation for God only saves one way. Hence, 2.You worship a god who sends people to Hell from birth without any opportunity to be saved and they could do nothing about it. What love is this? You worship a god who does not provide sufficient grace to all or is unable (impotent) to. Isn't this what Hitler did to the Jews?
I worship a God who chose graciously to reach down and pluck me out of this perverse generation and saved me to eternal life in Jesus Christ. It is you who are railing your fist at God not I. No it is not what Hitler did.Hitler was a son of the devil, God is who He says He is, even if I don't understand at times why He does what He does. I am thankful to Him, and I will understand all things with I see the Lord face to face.You don't believe Hitler irresistibly condemned the Jews to the gas chambers and imposed his kind of salvation on the Aryan race, so as to deny the comparison of Calvinism and Aryanism? That sounds like the president of Iran denying the Holocaust happened. How is irresistibly forcing you into something, calling that a gift, gracious? Christians do not know this as love but tyrannical. No man can pluck us who are saved out of His hand, but God doesn't pluck us like fish out of an ocean. How evil that would be! Jacob Arminius was an OSASer, that is, he said, he never once taught a person who was born-again could lose salvation. This is 5 point OSAS Arminian: giving your life to God who keeps, preserves, when we know we can't keep ourselves. Whereas in Calvinism you have to 'persevere' for it because it was never your choice. You haven't shown how the god of Calvinism is different than the god of Hitler. Hitler knew he would see his lord face to face, and doesn't understand why he was chosen to irresistible save the Aryan race, nor do the Aryan race understand why they were chosen above all people to be saved just like Calvinists. How could they deep down really be sure they were saved because it was never their choice by the grace of God as so much doubt ensues, not knowing the way. Ergo, 3.You worship an evil tyrant that must irresistibly impose its kind of regeneration on people without giving them the choice (not much of a gift) to genuinely and sincerely enter into a relationship. Isn't this what Hitler did to his Aryan race? I'd hate to be in your family household at any time of the season.
The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth, if you are one of His, you are at the moment ignorant of the knowledge of God, as to who Jesus Christ really is, what He has truly done, and what He has done, for, in and through you for His glory and not our own.The question is not whether God will guide us into all truth for those of us who are saved, but whether God is loving enough to provide sufficient grace to all give us the choice through common and/or special grace of the gospel rather than having to be an impotent tyrant who must like Hitler irresistibly impose salvation on some, denying this imposition on others. Of course, if this is evil for men to behave this way, it is evil for God. A contradiction is a contradiction. We are not in 10,000 years going to find out this was not a contradiction after all. There is no such thing as a square circle or married bachelor. The law of non-contradiction never changes. It is a violation of God's law. Calvinism is a violation of the law of God. The Bible says be 'not doubletongued' (1 Tim. 3.8) so don't be a doubletalker. When you find yourself contradicting yourself as shown here, then stand up for the truth despite your bad habits you have developed and how this makes you feel, but give into reality. I believe this by the word of God such contradictions are wrong, so why don't you? Consequently, 4.Your god contradicts himself with his two wills you claim secretly doesn't want all to be saved but openly says he does. If something is a secret then by definition you can't make any claim about it or if it even exists. The truth be told: God wishes that none should perish, so He does provide sufficient grace to all and does not enact preterition. If all God had to do was provide a person one more ounce of grace to convince him to come to the cross, He would do so. Your god doesn't. And therein lies the difference in the power and transcendence, righteous and holiness of God of the Bible that your god does not have.
Again you fail to understand the Word of God. The unbeliever is not given any kind of hope at all, for they in their lost state, until God decides to quicken them to the truth, or not. The gosple is seen, heard and understood by those whom God has chosen, 'many are called, (but many will not and cannot understand, so it means nothing to them, hope aor otherwise) few are chosen.' These are Jesus Words.How evil that would be for God to force some into believing irregardless of their choice and to pass over others, for God wants none to perish, thus He provides sufficient grace to all that any may be quickened with new life, whosoever is willing. God transcends the god of Calvinism by infinity, for the god of Calvinism is unable to do this or is unwilling. Either way, not God. Jesus brings to the world the Good News which is full of hope, love, peace, long-suffering and forgiveness whosoever is willing to receive His saving grace. A false hope is presented to the Calvinism reprobate for certainly some will take the word of the gospel as true as it is delivered to billions and billions. This is an abusive relationship to be so cruel. What secret hidden cultic teaching is this? Jesus never said He forces Himself on someone, but He said in John 3.16 He died for the sins of the whole world that whosoever is willing may receive His love and mercy. Thank God, God is not like someone with a hook grabbing one of two lads carelessly playing in a whirlpool. But God is like someone who extends a stick out to both lads while they are carelessly playing in the whirlpool or quicksand and says to them if they don't grab on they will die. And so, 5. It's wrong to give people false hope to deliver the gospel to them when your god made them unable to respond. There is no way around this duplicity and charade. Let us pray for the Calvinists for they know not what they are doing and have not come to God with an honest heart so God does not know them; instead they choose to believe in a corrupted facsimile and simulation of God's salvation.
We do not deliver the gospel to the lost, but to those whom God chose before the foundation of the world to be in Christ...He choses, we do not...cannot...We preach to all because we do not know who He has chosen...some will not hear... Sounds like a contradiction for you said you 'do not deliver the gospel to the lost' yet you 'preach to all'!? Which is it, do you deliver the gospel to all or not? Can you feel your head spinning? I see your headiness and it is definitely spinning out of control straight to hell. You admit you have not chosen Christ: 'we do not...cannot'. Thus, you really can't know if you are saved or not, because it is not your choice to receive God's saving grace. That's why you 'persevere' so hard to work for it because you really don't know if you are born-again. Whereas true Christians know we are saved because God gave us the choice and we so chose. God chose us by foreknowing our free-choice. He does the saving. He chose us: looking back upon our new birth we can see we were chosen before the foundations of the world in His infinite foreknowledge, provision and providence. The issue is not whether YOU preach to all because YOU know or don't know who is to be saved. You've missed the point. Take your eyes off of yourself for the moment. The question is, Would a loving God deliver a gospel to people whom He would not give the grace to be able to have the choice to respond? That is called sadism, to prod for someone to do something yet they are not given the means to be able to respond Your god is extending a 30 foot rope to a young child who is 40 feet down a well, and telling her to grab hold of it while blaming her and saying to her abusively, what's wrong with you? Aren't you tall enough, smart enough, old enough, good enough? There are some sick people out there, and they are called Calvinists. That leads to the sixth sin of Calvinism. 6.The god of Calvinism could save all, but doesn't, whereas God of the Bible doesn't save all because most people, with their own volition refuse His love. Case and point: Calvinists. Let's call this the 6 MAJOR SINS OF CALVINISM. A selfish salvation!
I personally have not been selected for Hell, as you said, for I am in Christ Jesus, selected before the foundation of the world to be in Him. Because you cannot know, because God only knows the heart, the spirit of a person.You have revealed your heart, for you admit you did not repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated, but selfishly assumed you were regenerated (called 'stacking the deck') without prior having had to repent and believe in Him to THEN be regenerated. So afraid to give up control of self, even in salvation you assume your salvation! How sad for you. Many people say, Lord, Lord, and the Lord says on that day, He never knew you. Why? Because you don't want to be saved His way, and it is perfectly easy to see, because you exalt yourself in a false salvation that turns people off whom you claim were not given this coercive degeneration. A non-Christian is perfectly justified in saying the god of Calvinism is evil and he does not want to be a Christian on that basis, so he turns away from Christianity by the misrepresentation of the gospel by Calvinists. But God is so loving and gracious, He will show that person the true gospel despite the misrepresentation by TULIPers. Praise the Lord. Amen!