Parture
02-26-2010, 07:46 PM
Re: WestminsterChristian
http://www.youtube.com/user/WestminsterChristian
Regarding your video on James White and Calvinism
I just finished watching and listening to your videos regarding James White and Calvinism on YouTube. I rarely respond Anti-James White/Anti-Calvinism attacks because they are far too common lack substance. As a courtesy to you, I will address what I believe to be wrongful accusations you have aired against James White and Calvinism (misrepresenting Total Depravity, Repentance, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ). I hope that you will reciprocate, by hearing me out, and therefore extend the same courtesy of time to me as I have to you by watching your videos. I promise to not criticize your unscholarly rhetoric, assumptions, and polemic accusations and mishandling of the Word of God (that is, not beyond this open rebuke).
Neither James White nor Calvinism teaches salvation apart from repentance. A cursory overview of both should have already made that clear to you. Both recognize that repentance and gladly believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ are fundamental to the historic and scriptural Christian faith. What White and Calvinism clearly affirm is that we, APART FROM THE REDEMPTIVE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD FIRST IN OUR LIVES, are totally depraved and therefore do not come to God for Salvation. Man does not seek God. It is the Son of God that came to seek and save the lost (not the other way around). Natural men do not receive the things of God and they can know them (1 Corinthians 2:14) therefore they never repent and believe in and of their own sinful accord . . . never. The bible clearly teaches this (See . . . Romans 3:11, John 1:13, John 5:40, John 6:44 amongst so many other passages).
James White and Calvinists DO believe that repentance is integral in salvation and without repentance, there is no salvation. Now, to repent means to think differently about your sin, to turn and turn again, turning from your sin and turning to God. We (Calvinists, if that is what you want to call us) repent. All real Christians do. Moreover, WE NEVER SAID WE DIDNT. WHAT WE DONT DO is credit ourselves as having repented without the intervention of our Holy God. WE DO NOT change repentance into a man-made work that results in salvation but we, instead, recognize that even our repentance is a gift through Gods grace and mercy (never making repentance a work of man, Phil 2:8-9).
Here is what we have been saying from day one. Our very willingness to repent is not in and of our own spiritually dead selves. Even our Repentance was granted to us by God. Our willingness and ability to repent, is based on God granting us repentance. 2 Timothy 2:25-26 states if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth Again, who grants repentance? It is God who grants repentance!
God grants grace, repentance, faith and salvation through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the new life. We, Calvinists, just like all Christians (real Christians) repent, confessing with our mouths and believe in our hearts that Jesus Christ is Lord. The difference is that we credit our Sovereign God for first moving by removing our heart of (cold dead) stone and giving us a (living) heart of flesh (Ezekiel 11:19 and Ezekiel 36:26). Thus, Jesus Christ is truly the Author and Finisher of our faith.
What you don't realize is what Christians consider repentance is not what James White considers to be repentance. It is the same word, but not the same thing at all. One is real, the other is a farce. We can sense it, you can't, because your spirit is still dead to God. The best way to explain this is to say that the Christian God provides sufficient grace to all, but your god does not. Your god can't do what God can which makes your god below God of the Bible. And since God provides sufficient grace to all, nobody is Totally depraved. Total depravity, therefore, is a heretical teaching. Nobody seeks after God, but thank God He provides sufficient grace to all, so any person can be saved whosoever is willing to seek after God. As the Bible says, if you search Him out with all your heart and soul, you shall surely find Him. He did not say, if you search Him out with all your heart and soul because you have been regenerated, you shall surely find Him. I am grateful to God I don't have to spend eternity with Calvinists. Thank you Lord!
The redemptive work of salvation is to all men, whosoever is willing, for God provides sufficient grace to all men. Your god is unable to do this and must irresistibly impose regeneration on some to cause them to repent and believe by virtue of the fact he is unable to provide sufficient grace to all. Your god is impotent. Christians do not consider this to be true repentance and faith, for it was forced and given without providing sufficient grace to all men.
The reason why all men can receive Christ is because the redemptive work is supplied to all whosoever is wlling. That is why we read in 1 Tim. 4.10: "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" and NOT "Savior of all men who believe, specially those who believe" for that would be nonsensical and redundant.
The reason the natural man does not receive things of God is because he prefers the flesh and the world (that's you); that is not to say he is without the grace to respond to God's offer of salvation and sufficiency of grace.
To realize why and how you and James White are still not saved and are "condemned already" (John 3.18) all you need do is realize that nothing has changed. You still have the pride of self-centeredness, for you both still think you were irresistibly selected which you claim made you repent, instead of truly, genuinely and authentically coming to the cross as helpless sinners and receiving the Lord Jesus as Savior. It's palpable your condition even though you are miles away. God wants a relationship not with robots irresistibly made to be set in this one pile and others must go to the other pile. My God would never stoop to your god's level. My God is going to put your god in Hell along with all its followers.
The way you work for your salvation is after having assumed you were irresistibly selected without prior having had to repent and believe in Christ, you continue to work for it, because you don't know if you are really saved or not, not really, since deep down inside according to your theory it was never your choice, but assumed to be a gift that was forced upon you. A true gift of repentance is freely obtained and never imposed.
I know you can't understand what I am saying because "we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit" (1 Cor. 2.13). You don't have God's Spirit indwelling your spirit. God has never granted you repentance because do not want to be saved His way.
God will change your heart of stone to one of flesh but not by showing partiality, for He shows no partiality (Acts 10.34). He is not the prime mover in the way you think. He won't do it irresistibly as you demand and assume. That's a selfish salvation that you assume and it would make God evil because it is wrong to force it on people and deny it to other from birth without any opportunity for salvation. If it is evil for us to behave this way, it is evil for your god you worship. Your god gives you a selfish salvation, but since that's what you want, God won't save you. God is the prime mover having created you in His image with free will and supplies sufficient grace all along the way, so you are "without excuse" (Rom. 1.20). You cannot say that you were irresistibly regenerated nor can you say God doesn't supply someone enough enablement to respond to His saving grace.
p.s. When say you won't criticize someone's polemic, mishandling of Scripture, assumptions, unscholarly rhetoric, that's like saying I won't criticize your stupidity for that is beyond the scope of this discussion. I see you talking out the side of your face. I hope you have a conscience to see that one day, and before you accuse someone of assuming something you really ought to prove it first.
http://www.youtube.com/user/WestminsterChristian
Regarding your video on James White and Calvinism
I just finished watching and listening to your videos regarding James White and Calvinism on YouTube. I rarely respond Anti-James White/Anti-Calvinism attacks because they are far too common lack substance. As a courtesy to you, I will address what I believe to be wrongful accusations you have aired against James White and Calvinism (misrepresenting Total Depravity, Repentance, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ). I hope that you will reciprocate, by hearing me out, and therefore extend the same courtesy of time to me as I have to you by watching your videos. I promise to not criticize your unscholarly rhetoric, assumptions, and polemic accusations and mishandling of the Word of God (that is, not beyond this open rebuke).
Neither James White nor Calvinism teaches salvation apart from repentance. A cursory overview of both should have already made that clear to you. Both recognize that repentance and gladly believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ are fundamental to the historic and scriptural Christian faith. What White and Calvinism clearly affirm is that we, APART FROM THE REDEMPTIVE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD FIRST IN OUR LIVES, are totally depraved and therefore do not come to God for Salvation. Man does not seek God. It is the Son of God that came to seek and save the lost (not the other way around). Natural men do not receive the things of God and they can know them (1 Corinthians 2:14) therefore they never repent and believe in and of their own sinful accord . . . never. The bible clearly teaches this (See . . . Romans 3:11, John 1:13, John 5:40, John 6:44 amongst so many other passages).
James White and Calvinists DO believe that repentance is integral in salvation and without repentance, there is no salvation. Now, to repent means to think differently about your sin, to turn and turn again, turning from your sin and turning to God. We (Calvinists, if that is what you want to call us) repent. All real Christians do. Moreover, WE NEVER SAID WE DIDNT. WHAT WE DONT DO is credit ourselves as having repented without the intervention of our Holy God. WE DO NOT change repentance into a man-made work that results in salvation but we, instead, recognize that even our repentance is a gift through Gods grace and mercy (never making repentance a work of man, Phil 2:8-9).
Here is what we have been saying from day one. Our very willingness to repent is not in and of our own spiritually dead selves. Even our Repentance was granted to us by God. Our willingness and ability to repent, is based on God granting us repentance. 2 Timothy 2:25-26 states if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth Again, who grants repentance? It is God who grants repentance!
God grants grace, repentance, faith and salvation through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the new life. We, Calvinists, just like all Christians (real Christians) repent, confessing with our mouths and believe in our hearts that Jesus Christ is Lord. The difference is that we credit our Sovereign God for first moving by removing our heart of (cold dead) stone and giving us a (living) heart of flesh (Ezekiel 11:19 and Ezekiel 36:26). Thus, Jesus Christ is truly the Author and Finisher of our faith.
What you don't realize is what Christians consider repentance is not what James White considers to be repentance. It is the same word, but not the same thing at all. One is real, the other is a farce. We can sense it, you can't, because your spirit is still dead to God. The best way to explain this is to say that the Christian God provides sufficient grace to all, but your god does not. Your god can't do what God can which makes your god below God of the Bible. And since God provides sufficient grace to all, nobody is Totally depraved. Total depravity, therefore, is a heretical teaching. Nobody seeks after God, but thank God He provides sufficient grace to all, so any person can be saved whosoever is willing to seek after God. As the Bible says, if you search Him out with all your heart and soul, you shall surely find Him. He did not say, if you search Him out with all your heart and soul because you have been regenerated, you shall surely find Him. I am grateful to God I don't have to spend eternity with Calvinists. Thank you Lord!
The redemptive work of salvation is to all men, whosoever is willing, for God provides sufficient grace to all men. Your god is unable to do this and must irresistibly impose regeneration on some to cause them to repent and believe by virtue of the fact he is unable to provide sufficient grace to all. Your god is impotent. Christians do not consider this to be true repentance and faith, for it was forced and given without providing sufficient grace to all men.
The reason why all men can receive Christ is because the redemptive work is supplied to all whosoever is wlling. That is why we read in 1 Tim. 4.10: "Savior of all men, specially those who believe" and NOT "Savior of all men who believe, specially those who believe" for that would be nonsensical and redundant.
The reason the natural man does not receive things of God is because he prefers the flesh and the world (that's you); that is not to say he is without the grace to respond to God's offer of salvation and sufficiency of grace.
To realize why and how you and James White are still not saved and are "condemned already" (John 3.18) all you need do is realize that nothing has changed. You still have the pride of self-centeredness, for you both still think you were irresistibly selected which you claim made you repent, instead of truly, genuinely and authentically coming to the cross as helpless sinners and receiving the Lord Jesus as Savior. It's palpable your condition even though you are miles away. God wants a relationship not with robots irresistibly made to be set in this one pile and others must go to the other pile. My God would never stoop to your god's level. My God is going to put your god in Hell along with all its followers.
The way you work for your salvation is after having assumed you were irresistibly selected without prior having had to repent and believe in Christ, you continue to work for it, because you don't know if you are really saved or not, not really, since deep down inside according to your theory it was never your choice, but assumed to be a gift that was forced upon you. A true gift of repentance is freely obtained and never imposed.
I know you can't understand what I am saying because "we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit" (1 Cor. 2.13). You don't have God's Spirit indwelling your spirit. God has never granted you repentance because do not want to be saved His way.
God will change your heart of stone to one of flesh but not by showing partiality, for He shows no partiality (Acts 10.34). He is not the prime mover in the way you think. He won't do it irresistibly as you demand and assume. That's a selfish salvation that you assume and it would make God evil because it is wrong to force it on people and deny it to other from birth without any opportunity for salvation. If it is evil for us to behave this way, it is evil for your god you worship. Your god gives you a selfish salvation, but since that's what you want, God won't save you. God is the prime mover having created you in His image with free will and supplies sufficient grace all along the way, so you are "without excuse" (Rom. 1.20). You cannot say that you were irresistibly regenerated nor can you say God doesn't supply someone enough enablement to respond to His saving grace.
p.s. When say you won't criticize someone's polemic, mishandling of Scripture, assumptions, unscholarly rhetoric, that's like saying I won't criticize your stupidity for that is beyond the scope of this discussion. I see you talking out the side of your face. I hope you have a conscience to see that one day, and before you accuse someone of assuming something you really ought to prove it first.