Without Cause?

[DD2014]

Churchwork has claimed that everything needs (or has) a cause. This is his "proof" of a creator. I would like him to scientifically explain what causes radioactive decay.

[Churchwork]

I'm right here. Talk to me. Why do you need to know what causes radioactive decay in order to accept the uncreated Creator, for obviously, we can't know all things, but we certainly can abide in the preponderance of evidence of trillions of causes in nature to know that what begins to exist needs a causal explanation and certainly can't come from nothing, for that which doesn't exist can't produce anything. To show how absurd this stance is, let's say you were really smart and knew all things except for one last thing. Would you still hold out for the possibility this one last thing could be proof that something can come from nothing? You're saying you have to be God to know if God exists, but that is inherently contradictory, for obviously you are not God, you didn't create all things.

[DD2014]

Why do you need to know what causes radioactive decay in order to accept the uncreated Creator

Because you claimed nothing is without cause. If I find something without a cause I'm going to use that to refute your "proof". Do you not understand what a debate is?


To show how absurd this stance is, let's say you were really smart and knew all things except for one last thing. Would you still hold out for the possibility this one last thing could be proof that something can come from nothing?

You are right, we can't know everything. I'm not claiming to know everything. All I am asking is for you to explain something that is scientifically observable to be without cause


You're saying you have to be God to know if God exists

I never said that.

[Churchwork]

No cause?

Just because you are not smart enough to figure out the cause for all things including radioactive decay is not a valid proof something happens all by itself. Since when is assuming a proof?

Where is it scientifically proven radioactive decay happens all by itself without a cause? Funny.

In fact you are claiming to have to be God to know if God exists because you are claiming you need to know all things which would be only God's ability. That's obviously obnoxious.

What is sufficiently evident is there are trillions of causes and effects in nature indicating quite clearly the universe requires a cause. It's really no more complicated than that. Your headiness just tries to complicate it because of your hostility to your Creator and which is why you are going to Hell. You start from the assumption God does not exist and try to formulate reasons from that, which is why all your reasoning is so twisted. You're unwilling to start from the humble position you don't know if God exists then just let the evidence take you where it may. This is humility.

You're a bad guy however you choose to be independent to your Creator.

[DD2014]

Where is it scientifically proven radioactive decay happens all by itself without a cause? Funny.


Where did I say it was proven? Funny, I just said that radioactive decay is scientifically observable to be without cause.

You are putting words in my mouth. Scientifically observable does not mean scientifically proven, It means you can observe it scientifically.


...you are claiming you need to know all things which would be only God's ability.

Nope. I claim you only need to know one thing to disprove your God.


What is sufficiently evident is there are trillions of causes and effects in nature...

Yes. But that does not mean you should start to make assumptions.


...the universe requires a cause

That is an assumption. Based on the assumption that everything needs a cause. Based on another assumption that God does not require a cause. If so much guessing is involved with "proof" I want no part in it.


Your headiness just tries to complicate it because of your hostility to your Creator and which is why you are going to Hell.

You can't threaten me with something I don't fear. It doesn't work dude. Its like me telling you leprechauns will kill you or something, does that scare you?


You start from the assumption God does not exist

Nope.


You're unwilling to start from the humble position you don't know if God exists then just let the evidence take you where it may. This is humility.

I already did that dude. For 14 years or so I assumed that god was real. He still couldn't convince me of his own existance, so I dumped religion.


You're a bad guy however you choose to be independent to your Creator.

I'm a bad person because of what? I don't belive what you belive? That sounds like a horrible reason to judge someone, especially for a christian. But you should already know that.


The very fact you begin by assuming God does not exist is to be disobedient to your Creator which shows you are going to Hell.

Again, I did start with the assumption that god exists. The evidence (lack of evidence) led me in the other direction.

[Churchwork]

That is an assumption. Based on the assumption that everything needs a cause. Based on another assumption that God does not require a cause.
A preponderance of evidence of trillions of cause and effects is not an assumption, but overwhelming evidence.

And because it is illogical to keep holding out to know the next thing and the next to know if the universe requires a cause, we can be confident the universe needs a cause, because if you need to come to the point of having to know all things to be sure, you've contradicted yourself, because obviously you can't know all things. This only shows the universe needs a cause. It does not specify whether the causes is uncaused or not.

Now to know if the cause is uncaused one needs to prove the universe could not always have existed. Since this has been achieved as well, we know confidently the cause for the universe is uncaused. This is the characteristic of God called aseity. It takes all the guessing out of making a decision for God.


You can't threaten me with something I don't fear.
My intent is not to threaten you but only to point out the fact of the matter one proof leads to the next leaving one without question whether you are going to Hell or not. You're definitely going to be placed in that abode of eternal separation from God without His presence for forever! How truly sad for you I am.


I already did that dude. For 14 years or so I assumed that god was real. He still couldn't convince me of his own existance, so I dumped religion.

I think you are a contradicting yourself. I said, "You're unwilling to start from the humble position you don't know if God exists then just let the evidence take you where it may. This is humility." To which you replied, "I already did that." You already did what? You started from the humble position of not assuming or that you let the evidence lead you and have since forgotten about it? How is it humble to have "assumed God is real"? Overassuming is not humble. Since you can't overturn the proof for God given here, then the issue is not whether God is convincing, but whether you are willing to accept reality. Obviously, you are not; you prefer your flesh-sin of your body and self of your soul.


I'm a bad person because of what?

Because the proof is given which you can't overturn, yet you still give into your selfish and self-centered lies.

[InTruth]

DD2014,

Stop thinking so much for it is your thinking that is blocking you from accepting the truth. It's better if you just gather information like in this video and let the Holy Spirit draw you in.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPhnKu7-b_U&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

[DD2014]

Stop thinking so much for it is your thinking that is blocking you from accepting the truth.

This is dangerous thinking and it scares me. You really want people to just accept outrageous claims without thinking about them? "Don't think about it" is what is told to the suicide bombers before they blow up a coffee shop. I can't belive you would want people not to think.

[InTruth]

Where did I say "don't think about it"? That's called false quoting and bearing false witness. I said "gather information" which obviously requires your thinking, but stop over-thinking because it is leading to your irrational thoughts. You're expressing your anxiety towards God by going beyond the measure God has set for you.

Realize one can out think themselves in unholy ways. This is what you are doing and should scare you, a very dangerous kind of thinking. Such thinking rationalizes Hitler's actions. Such thinking makes one feel righteous by being suicide mass murderers. Such thinking makes one think the universe can come from nothing. That's outrageous.