The Best Argument Atheists Have

[Churchwork]

Since the atheist knows there is no naturalistic feasible explanation for the disciples believing they saw Jesus resurrected, the only route they can grab onto is to say the authors of the entire NT were fabricated and made up. Of course this fails because Paul really did write 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2, really did meet the Apostles as he said he did. Peter really wrote his books, John wrote his, Luke wrote his, Matthew wrote his and Mark wrote his. Jesus is the most highly documented person in antiquity within 150 years after their deaths.

It's a done deal. That's why Christianity is the largest religion in the world.

[DD2014]

It's a done deal. That's why Christianity is the largest religion in the world.

Funny, the word largest does not mean true

[Churchwork]

Funny, the word largest does not mean true
I didn't say size was the reason. Size is the effect. Even many call themselves Christians who don't believe in Christ, only because they feel oddly wrong by calling Jesus a liar. At least they know this much, but look at you.

[Balstrome]

Since the atheist knows there is no naturalistic feasible explanation for the disciples believing they saw Jesus resurrected, the only route they can grab onto is to say the authors of the entire NT were fabricated and made up. Of course this fails because Paul really did write 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2, really did meet the Apostles as he said he did. Peter really wrote his books, John wrote his, Luke wrote his, Matthew wrote his and Mark wrote his. Jesus is the most highly documented person in antiquity within 150 years after their deaths.


Could you please supply the evidence for your claim that the gospels were written by the people that they are named after.

And Jesus is not the most documented person from the ancient world, that would have to be Julius Caesar. You might want to work thought the NT and see how many lines actually deal with Jesus, and you find that you can fill up less than ten A4 pages of all the text that talks about Jesus. And you could add another one A4 page with all the "non-biblical" references to him from that period.

[Churchwork]

Clement of Rome and Polycarp testified to knowing personally John, Peter and James and that their writings were authentic. Paul wrote that he spent 15 days with Peter and James, and with John in Gal. 1. It is safe to say they spoke about more than just the weather. Each of the writers of the NT corroborate each other, mentioning trips they went on together, the time they shared together, people they met, trials they went through.

The writing style of each writer of the 4 gospels matches their characteristics. For example, Matthew was a tax collector so he emphasizes Jesus as king. Whereas John emphasized Jesus as God. Mark emphasized Jesus as servant. and Luke emphasized Jesus as a man. Mark was simple. Paul had troubles with him. Mark mentions himself running naked in the streets when Jesus was captured. John mentions himself at the cross when Jesus was crucified. Luke wrote a thorough account and said Luke was his former work to part two which was Acts. Peter mentions himself in various ways in Peter. James himself in James. Jude wrote Jude. John also wrote his 3 epistles he ascribes to himself and the book of Revelation. The church fathers testified to the same in the 2nd century, and there were no other candidates to fill these roles than these close Apostles and associates. It's not an issue or in question.

Julius Caesar is not the most documented person. Tiberius who died 4 years after Jesus had more sources than Julius. Jesus has over 10x more sources for himself than Caesar had. Gary R. Habermas has gone through all the sources and makes this point just as I have told you,

http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?5086-Gary-R-Habermas-at-the-Be-Thinking-Conference-on-the-Resurrection&p=10470#post10470

Consider yourself delusional, therefore. In fact, there are no sources for Julius Caesar within 150 years of his death. The 4 sources we do have are dated over 300 years later.

Jesus has 45 sources of himself, including Christian and non-Christian sources, within 150 years of His death. 1 Cor. 15 refers to events that took place that Paul received within 3 years after the cross. There is really no better proof for who God is than the 66 books of the Bible.

[Balstrome]

Do you have a link to the document that shows Clement or Poly talking about any of the disciples.

[Churchwork]

Sure, there are the traditional early known sources we have for Clement of Rome and Polycarp that scholars cite. For example, read Gary R. Habermas' The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (2004) for these sources. This is common knowledge. You seem to have put your head in the sand.

As well we have the martyrdom accounts from the church fathers for all the Apostles even for John. James was the first to be martyred as documented in Acts by Luke.

You are rift with a tonne of mistaken assumptions about reality and history. This is what you use to separate yourself from reality, the truth, God, salvation, love.

[Don Mohawk]

I don't believe an atheist has any weight in arguements dealing with faith. Considering they have no faith. Faith in nothing is contradiction to no faith, and people with no faith, know nothing. And knowing nothing is worthless. And ateists who claim to know something have a faith in truth and contradicts no faith.

[Churchwork]

Atheists have faith in nature which is not nothing so they are not contradicting themselves if what they believe is evidenced. Atheists believe they know that God does not exist. But they don't consider nature worthless. Of course they are wrong since God is proven and they don't know how to overturn that proof which is their contradiction. They are delusional due to their selfish independency from their creator. That is all.

[Don Mohawk]

Wouldn't faith in nature be wicken?

[clark thompson]

I don't need to argue my faith but, just state my faith.

[Churchwork]

Wouldn't faith in nature be wicken?
Sure. There are others as well.

[Churchwork]

I don't need to argue my faith but, just state my faith.
You shouldn't argue, but you can convince someone with proofs as faith in Christ is not blind faith.