Churchwork
03-18-2009, 08:13 PM
What I am not aiming to do here is persuade...and avoid you.
That's doubletalk. You don't try to get people to avoid and not persuade at the same time. The Bible says don't "be doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3:8). You need some morals like are given in God's Word. I suggest people avoid such doubletalker.
It's impossible to be a born-again atheist because you are only born physically once and you can't lose salvation, because once-saved-always-saved. New birth is a regeneration of the spirit, not a new heady idea.
I know you are trying hard to find a way to reject God and not let the evidence lead you, but my prayer is that you will see the error of your mistaken assumptions so you can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, for there is no other name under heaven by which one can be saved. That's what He said. He is either a liar, a lunatic or He is in fact God your Creator. Wow eh? I know. You wouldn't want to live in a world without such love and mercy and power of our Creator.
Please note that there is no need to invoke any kind of mechanism involving the exponential progression of sin at this point.
You are not understanding Step 1 (http://biblocality.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4195&postcount=1) of the 4 Step Proof for God, for many atheists will say the universe always existed in cycles theory or whatever even before the big bang for an eternity in cause and effects. So the exponential progression of conscience disallows this because mankind would not still be sinning to the extent it still does.
Space and Time are qualities of the universe itself and did not exist before it, nor do they exist beyond it. There is no before and no beyond.
There are two problems with your theory. First, Step 1 disallows a universe that has always been existing. Step 2 says nothing that has come into being can come into being all by itself (e.g. time or matter) and you admitted there was nothing before the big bang when you said, "the age of our universe..13.7 billion years." Hence, we are left with only one logical possibility. The uncreated created. It is not an option to shut your mind down to the only logical possibility, for you provide no alternate explanation.
If God exists, He being all-powerful, would have no problem creating, bringing time and space into existence through string theory or whatever.
Praise the Lord! My prayer is that you do give your life to Christ one day, for I would not wish upon my worse enemy where you are going.
Jesus said, "If I have told you earthly things (e.g. nothing in nature happens all by itself so the universe can't cause itself, nor can it always have been existing), and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, the Son of man [Jesus Christ] which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3.12-21).
You might want to read that again, for Jesus was speaking to you, and when He speaks you ought to listen.
That's doubletalk. You don't try to get people to avoid and not persuade at the same time. The Bible says don't "be doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3:8). You need some morals like are given in God's Word. I suggest people avoid such doubletalker.
It's impossible to be a born-again atheist because you are only born physically once and you can't lose salvation, because once-saved-always-saved. New birth is a regeneration of the spirit, not a new heady idea.
I know you are trying hard to find a way to reject God and not let the evidence lead you, but my prayer is that you will see the error of your mistaken assumptions so you can be saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, for there is no other name under heaven by which one can be saved. That's what He said. He is either a liar, a lunatic or He is in fact God your Creator. Wow eh? I know. You wouldn't want to live in a world without such love and mercy and power of our Creator.
Please note that there is no need to invoke any kind of mechanism involving the exponential progression of sin at this point.
You are not understanding Step 1 (http://biblocality.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4195&postcount=1) of the 4 Step Proof for God, for many atheists will say the universe always existed in cycles theory or whatever even before the big bang for an eternity in cause and effects. So the exponential progression of conscience disallows this because mankind would not still be sinning to the extent it still does.
Space and Time are qualities of the universe itself and did not exist before it, nor do they exist beyond it. There is no before and no beyond.
There are two problems with your theory. First, Step 1 disallows a universe that has always been existing. Step 2 says nothing that has come into being can come into being all by itself (e.g. time or matter) and you admitted there was nothing before the big bang when you said, "the age of our universe..13.7 billion years." Hence, we are left with only one logical possibility. The uncreated created. It is not an option to shut your mind down to the only logical possibility, for you provide no alternate explanation.
If God exists, He being all-powerful, would have no problem creating, bringing time and space into existence through string theory or whatever.
Praise the Lord! My prayer is that you do give your life to Christ one day, for I would not wish upon my worse enemy where you are going.
Jesus said, "If I have told you earthly things (e.g. nothing in nature happens all by itself so the universe can't cause itself, nor can it always have been existing), and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, the Son of man [Jesus Christ] which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3.12-21).
You might want to read that again, for Jesus was speaking to you, and when He speaks you ought to listen.