Churchwork
01-18-2009, 02:14 PM
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=WJpeJJlCK-U
Bottom line: James Crossley is saying that the disciples hallucinated. Antony Flew resorts to the same thing.
Since people don't go to their deaths as martyrs believing what they know is a lie and most skeptical scholars believe they were being genuine, the only issue we have to deal with is can group hallucinations be plausible?
Crossley could not find a plausible explanation for hallucination, so it seems quite clear Crossley lost the debate.
For me personally, what I like is the fact that modern psychology today says group hallucinations are impossible and Gary R. Habermas seals the deal. He says:
1) Hallucinations are private occurrences. They are not collective experiences. Even if two people were to experience hallucination they would be different. It's like waking up from a dream then going back to bed and asking your wife to join you in your dream. Impossible.
2) Hallucination doesn't account for the empty tomb. If all these different individuals and groups hallucinated then the body should be in the tomb. Furthermore, there are too many checks to even remove the body.
3) Hallucination does not account for the conversion of Paul; hallucinations don't change lives. People later come to their senses realizing it was a hallucination.
4) Hallucination doesn't account for the conversion of James. Both Paul and James were not grieved. They were convinced Jesus was deluded.
5) There are too many incident variances. If multiple people see a UFO it doesn't mean they hallucinated nor does it mean it was an alien spaceship; but in the case of Jesus, we are left with no other possibility than He is the Person they spent 3 years with. Therefore, the supernatural is only plausible explanation.
Gary gets into it in The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (2004). He splits apart visions, delusions, literary genre, and every conceivable terminology. It's comprehensive.
I think it's important not to listen to too many of these video debates, because once you know the truth, then the question is what do you do with that proven fact? Build you relationship with Christ and experience the dividing of your spirit, soul and body (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm) (Heb. 4.12, 1 Thess. 5.23) to walk by the spirit in faith, build the Church and strengthen your life in Christ because it is towards the New City and New Earth.
Bottom line: James Crossley is saying that the disciples hallucinated. Antony Flew resorts to the same thing.
Since people don't go to their deaths as martyrs believing what they know is a lie and most skeptical scholars believe they were being genuine, the only issue we have to deal with is can group hallucinations be plausible?
Crossley could not find a plausible explanation for hallucination, so it seems quite clear Crossley lost the debate.
For me personally, what I like is the fact that modern psychology today says group hallucinations are impossible and Gary R. Habermas seals the deal. He says:
1) Hallucinations are private occurrences. They are not collective experiences. Even if two people were to experience hallucination they would be different. It's like waking up from a dream then going back to bed and asking your wife to join you in your dream. Impossible.
2) Hallucination doesn't account for the empty tomb. If all these different individuals and groups hallucinated then the body should be in the tomb. Furthermore, there are too many checks to even remove the body.
3) Hallucination does not account for the conversion of Paul; hallucinations don't change lives. People later come to their senses realizing it was a hallucination.
4) Hallucination doesn't account for the conversion of James. Both Paul and James were not grieved. They were convinced Jesus was deluded.
5) There are too many incident variances. If multiple people see a UFO it doesn't mean they hallucinated nor does it mean it was an alien spaceship; but in the case of Jesus, we are left with no other possibility than He is the Person they spent 3 years with. Therefore, the supernatural is only plausible explanation.
Gary gets into it in The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (2004). He splits apart visions, delusions, literary genre, and every conceivable terminology. It's comprehensive.
I think it's important not to listen to too many of these video debates, because once you know the truth, then the question is what do you do with that proven fact? Build you relationship with Christ and experience the dividing of your spirit, soul and body (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm) (Heb. 4.12, 1 Thess. 5.23) to walk by the spirit in faith, build the Church and strengthen your life in Christ because it is towards the New City and New Earth.