The Problem with Calvinism

[Churchwork]

Calvinists say they are totally deprave which means they say they can't choose the cross and not only that they cannot, but they never would. So there you have all people that ever lived who never choose the cross and never could.

Logically, therefore, the god of calvinism has to and will make some people to choose the cross by saving them first or giving them faith to cause them to believe while others not, and this is all done without regard first for their choice. To me that sounds like a robot, and arbitrary, because this god does not care what you decide as he decides for you. This is not my god.

I think God can do better than that. I know He can. He wants to walk with us as sovereign beings with authentic free-will, not pretend free-will, for we are made in His image which never ceases to exist. When man fell he did not cease to be made in God's image.

God of the Bible is my God in which He predestinates by foreknowing our free-choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints.

This way God saves neither agrees with Presbyterians, Lutherans, Roman Church, Methodists, Baptists, Puritans, Eastern Orthodox, Messianics, or any other major denomination that I am aware of. I guess that is why the Bible says don't divide the body of Christ on doctrine by saying I of Cephas or I of Apollos. Don't even say I of Christ the Bible says for that is like saying you are non-denominational, priding yourself as such. God does not divide the body of Christ based on denominations or independent non-denominations. How then does God divide the body of Christ? According to the church of Ephesus in the churches of Asia minor or the church of Jerusalem in the churches of Judea. Who can deny this?

Amen.

[Churchwork]

What is dishonest and shameful is that calvinists admit they believe in total depravity but shut their minds down to and fail to appreciate how they misread the Bible regarding verses they claim are verses for total depravity. They are unable to examine humbly that there is a difference between the flesh that refuses God and their being made in God's image to be able to choose the cross.

Hence, there is the problem of what kind of determinism is in fact true: God being the cause of our free-choice yet not choosing for us or the calvinism version which is to say its god is the cause of our either coming to the cross or not coming to the cross without the sovereign volitional nature of mankind. The latter is robotic, the former is authentic. A calvinist cannot fathom that God can foreknow our free-choice without causing it. That is the glory of God if you are in your head God does not save that way.

To think being made in God's image does not have the function of choice which God has and is seen throughout Scripture, tells me that calvinists are not being honest with themselves and are in a heady salvation. The mistaken assumption held by calvinists is that total depravity is true legalistically. Legalisms are a killer. It makes Jesus death on the cross in vain if nobody could choose. When the Bible says nobody loves God, it is not saying nobody will choose the cross, otherwise the cross was given in vain. Jesus's talk with Nicodemus would have been in vain and pretentious.

Now a calvinist might say there is still choice, but they fail to appreciate the choice they ascribe to is not real choice to us believers, because real choice means you were not totally deprave unable to choose or such that nobody would choose. By definition, the choice given means somebody will choose which we do without assuming as calvinists they were saved first before believing. We don't need that pride of life and don't consider that authentic choice God desire for us to have and use in participation with Him.

If nobody chooses because of being totally deprave then the only option is the god of calvinism must choose for you without any consideration whatsoever for your choice, because nobody loves God and their choice is not the determining factor to be justified by faith in coming to the cross as helpless sinners afforded as the right to us all by God. Real choice means you are still made in God's image and always will be, no matter how deprave you are (but never totally deprave because that is legalistic). The rigidity of calvinism is false humility and wanting to be saved in a way that God does not save instead of really letting go of control of yourself to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Christians do not find total depravity expressed in the Bible at all. We see man fallen for sure, but this is distinctly different that the idea of total depravity.

Since Adam and Eve acted on their free will as did Cain and Abel's free-will offering, and there is no reason to believe any of them lost being made in God's image, we can conclude that calvinism is not the way God saves people. The reason why a person might want to be saved that way and not God's way has serious implications and so shall we know them by their fruit God says.

Just because man is a sovereign being made in God's image with his own volition that does not place his will or being above God's. Never think that. For God longs to walk with sovereign beings, not robots that had not the choice, willingness to choose or ability to have the choice.

The calvinism predestination is not the kind of predestination God has. The election of calvinism is not the kind of election God has. For God predestinates by foreknowing your free-choice, whereas calvinism predestination requires you are caused without regard for your choice first. Likewise, God elects conditionally by His foreknowledge of our free-choice; whereas, calvinism teaches its god elects by making you that way or causing you without first regard for your choice.

Faith as a gift of God is evidence of God's way of predestination and election, not the calvinist kind of predestination and election. That true kind of faith God gives is the faith that says God predestinates by foreknowing your free-choice in knowing the real Jesus.

Praise the Lord! Pray on these words, and pray for calvinists.

[Churchwork]

God's ultimate purpose is to glorify Himself and secondly to find a people for Himself to walk with out of that glory. This is how He most glorifies Himself.

God did not create the universe in 7 days. He restored creation and summed up the restoration of creation in the 6 days, then rested on the 7th. The point being, even before Adam and Eve were created, God was already in the mode of restoring to ultimately create man in His image when He knew the previous beings and creatures would not suffice.

Don't confuse the will of the flesh in natural man's free-will (due to the fall) that chooses not God and the element of free-will God gives us that can choose the cross to receive His Son. The former is of the flesh, the latter is made in God's image to have the choice to the cross. The gifting was there when God made us in His image. God wants to be with those who choose His Son authentically, not by assuming they were saved first before having had the choice. That is no choice then at all, but robots down an assembly line.

God created you with the ability to come to the cross. Your sin nature and the will of the flesh will never choose the cross. When you choose the cross for real He will gift you with faith and so shall you be justified by faith instead of choosing to assume you were saved without ever having to first choose.

There is no greater love than the love of God entering into creation through the Son to die on the cross for your sins. To understand the full extent of this love you must be saved, but before being saved, God gave you the ability to appreciate this love to the point of being able to choose the cross, be drawn by Him and called which is a conditional election, resistible grace and unlimited atonement. It is not an unconditional election, irresistible grace and limited atonement which only puffs up.

The fallen world prided themselves on being the chosen people like Nazis thought they were of the Arian nation, the chosen ones, without the need for free-will to choose rightly, but it was just bestowed on them, so they could be zombies under the following of their demonic leadership.

But God says you do have free-will, you can choose.

Does God offer us salvation when He says "come unto me" (Matt. 11.28) because we have free-choice: "he that will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22.17)? "And him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (John 6.37b). The Father draws, and He gives to His Son those He draws whom He foresees our free-choice to come to Christ and then be saved, not the other way around.

God directly has given us free-will when He made us in His image, exhibited by all the free-will choices and offerings in Scripture. He loves our participation in guiding us as sovereign beings who could be obedient to Him and follow His lead as a parent does for her children. He wants a relationship with us, not a relationship with a robot that is totally deprave, can't choose the cross, and requires an evil god to cause some to move to the cross and others not given that privilege. How asinine and insane! What evil manifestation will come of this one day is very scary.

Don't you see, you have the choice to reject the assumption that you have already made the choice in calvinism with no way out.

Don't get me wrong, though we have free-will, dependence on God is still of utmost importance because we can't change ourselves. We need His nature and His life. Though we can be drawn by God and called to the cross with our choice of repentance to the cross, we are in need of Him to do so much that we ourselves can't do.

A calvinist turns down God's offer of salvation by saying to God that he doesn't want to be saved His way. He would rather assume he is caused to believe, while others not without any consideration first for their choice. God does not want this unfortunate thought in your heart, so let God remove it. Let it go.

Arminians who believe in once-saved-always-saved don't believe God's grace is irresistible, but that it is resistible. Why are we Christians? Because God gave us the choice and we chose; then God saved us, that is why were justified by faith in His good grace. That is the proper cause and effect.

Why is a calvinist assuming he is a Christian? Because he assumes God saves by causing him to believe without regard first for his choice so he never had to choose, and thus holds back from every making that choice. How sad that must make God.

[Churchwork]

It is not the human will that saves but God. God needs you to choose Him so He will save you. If you don't want to be saved that way God won't save you then. Your choice. He won't force you. It can be scary to let go instead of just assuming your are saved. Satan wants you to shut your mind down to your own will of your soul so you don't choose the cross and realize it is a choice afforded to you. He will accuse your soulical will with its proper function as being of the flesh.

Arminius believed in once-saved-always-saved as taught in Scripture so eternal security is not a problem for those who authentically come to the cross, because our choice to come to the cross if it fulfills God's condition He will eternally keep us. These are the ones He is looking for.

How are the works of a calvinist dead? If he can generate a work being led by the evil spirit by assuming he is saved without choosing the cross first, those are works of the flesh. The pride of this accomplishment exalts the self based on the same assumption of believing you were caused to be saved with having to choose first. Equally are your works in vain. If you can assume one thing without evidence, you can assume something else, even a false work.

Whereas Scripture shows us that God wants you choose because He wants to walk with a people who choose Him otherwise He would not be glorified. He is glorified when people repent and trust in Him without being forced into it.

One can replace emotion for spirit as well as the mind for spirit. Both are examples of not walking in faith by the Spirit. A calvinist goes to the opposite extreme of being hard headed, walking by the mind of his soul instead of the intuition of his spirit. His emotion is usually suppressed as well.

Those who agree with Arminius believe that God choose us first, but He chose us first by foreseeing (Rom. 8.29) our free-choice, not because he made is one way and others another for hell. How horrible a faith that would be without the choice as God has.

[Churchwork]

It is not a canard at all the calvinism "robot", but follow the logic. And maybe realize then you are not a calvinist (I am hoping), so you would be osas arminian in reality accepting that God predestinates by foreknowing your free-choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints.

The logic is flowingly sound and remains unchallenged. Since the calvinist is unable to disprove this problem they have, it remains upon the lost soul:

"The god of calvinism has to and will make some people to choose the cross by saving them first or giving them faith to cause them to believe while others not, and this is all done without regard first for their choice since nobody would choose being totally deprave. To me that sounds like a robot, and arbitrary, because this god does not care what you decide as he decides for you without giving a chance to decide. This is not my god."

If a Christian does not accept the 5 points of calvinism, certainly we are anti-calvinist. We reject the false teaching of total depravity, but do accept that man is fallen. We as Christians know the difference, because we realize that when God made us in His image, we always remained in His image, even though we are fallen. A calvinist is stuck and can't overturn these words:

Does God offer us salvation when He says "come unto me" (Matt. 11.28) because we have free-choice: "he that will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22.17)? "And him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (John 6.37b). The Father draws, and He gives to His Son those He draws whom He foresees our free-choice to come to Christ and then be saved, not the other way around.

A calvinist is so busy arguing against non-osas arminians, he forgets to realize we who are osas arminian are his real contenders and God who does not offer salvation in vain, but offers it because you have the choice first before God saves you or gives you faith.

A believer has already come and always will, so Rev. 22.17 is speaking to every human being that ever lived. How vain God would be to call people to come when they have already arrived! How strange God would want the saved to be born-again, again! The atonement was once and forever! Reject the sinful separation from God taught by limited atonement of arianism that overassumes and puffs up in pride they were premade for salvation like robots. They say this is not robotic, but Christians have a conscience to realize it is robotic and assembly linish.

This is not the unlimited atonement of osas arminian: God's way of saving and choosing out a people for Himself. In John 6 we see God speaking to those who are already saved as being chosen by God, and those who are not yet saved, for they need to yet to "believe in the one he has sent" (v.29). "People can't come to me unless the Father brings them to me" (v.65) as God is the great Convincer! Even some who already believe though saved and have eternal life have doubts.

Jesus said, "I chose the twelve of you, but one is the devil" (v.70). Did God choose the devil to be saved? Yes, he wants everyone to be saved, but it is still Judas's choice. God chose them to be convinced, but one was unconvinced. His name was Judas, the devil. He is the devil because he is the False Prophet (2nd beast) in the unholy trinity of the dragon, 1st beast and second beast. Neron Kaisar (666 in Aramaic) is the revived Antichrist, the most evil man in history and greatest persecutor of Christians that ever lived. Calvinists persecute us Christians believing God chose us not like robots, but by foreseeing our free-choice.

Praise the Lord for this discernment! The truth will set you free.

[Churchwork]

Here is the law of cause in effect in the Bible.

Made in God's image as a sovereign being (1) ==> Man chose to fall (2) ==> Free-choice still exists from (1) not from (2) ==> Saved by Grace, or not Saved, by fulfilling the condition "whosoever believeth" and "take of the water of life freely".

Here is the calvinism way of salvation and its corresponding mistaken assumptions.

Made in God's image not a sovereign being (but a robot) --> Man did not choose to fall, but was made to fall --> Man can't choose in totally depravity --> god of calvinism requires to cause some robots to be save and others not without regard for their choice.

[Rdftreeman]

While ignoring your misrepresentation of monergism, at least God receives all the glory forever in choosing who to redeem based on His sovereign will.

In your system, you get the glory because salvation ultimately depends on your "free-choice". Glory to man

[Churchwork]

God has glory in being able to give people the free choice and building a relationship with free willed beings. Since your god cannot do that, God has glory in trumping your god.

I am glad you couldn't show any misunderstanding of Monergism.