Churchwork
09-19-2007, 03:45 AM
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."
There is nothing in that verse that even hints to a blessing coming from believing in your pet doctrine of a separate rapture or a rapture according to readiness. As a matter of fact, your separate rapture is not even mentioned in the book of Revelation at all. The blessing is simply for those who hear the words and heed the things in the prophecy. What are the words of the prophecy John is about to receive about? The entire theme is that the world and the church is going to go through hard times, but we have hope because we know that in the end God wins and in the end we will be with Christ and God. So how do we receive a blessing? By holding on to our hope, in spite of the fact of persecution. By holding on to our hope when it looks like there is no hope. By focusing our attention on the Lamb who is worthy. That's where the blessing comes from, my friend.
This blessing includes not just reading generally of coming trying events, but also to heed the things which are written in it specifically. There are consequences. If you do not heed and do not keep the word of His patience (Rev. 3.10), you shall not escape the hour of trial that shall come upon the whole earth. Hence, you shall not be raptured at the first rapture. Assuming you are a Christian, you will pass through the Tribulation. If you are not a Christian you will pass through the Tribulation and accuse the brethren (Rev. 12.10) who are raptured at the first rapture.
Rev. 14.1-5, 12.5 and the 5th seal all point to raptures that take place before the Tribulation starts. This first rapture is fully expressed in Rev. 7.9.
What is the condition for first rapture? "Hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev. 3.10). Notice this is the hour of trial, not just trial. God cannot promise no martyrdom for the believer who enters the Tribulation.
When does first rapture take place? When they are raptured such that they, "stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes" (Rev. 7.9) which is before the trumpets of the Tribulation unfold (Rev. 8ff).
There is a distinction made in the Bible between wheat and tares, some say, but no difference made between wheat and wheat; consequently, all wheat must be raptured. In reply, it should be noted that the times of ripening for wheat are not the same. Thus there are the firstfruits and the later harvest. There are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere of life. There is no exception here.
The church would lose her hope if there is no opportunity for first rapture - “Looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2.13) - for included in this hope is the blessing of escaping the Tribulation.
Were all of us believers to be raptured after the Great Tribulation, then our waiting would not be a waiting for Christ but for the Antichrist, since the latter must come first.
Were the entire body of believers to be raptured after the Tribulation, there would again be no need for us to watch and wait and be prepared. Knowing that the Lord would not come before the end of the three and a half year's period, we could live evilly up to three years five months and twenty-nine days. Yet such a concept violates the very principle of the Scriptures.
This posttrib onlyist views the twelve disciples as being purely Christians in direct contrast with the view of the first school which considers these twelve as being merely Jews. As a matter of fact, however, these twelve disciples are Christians as well as representatives of the Jewish remnant. For example, in Matthew 10.5-6 and 23.3 we see that all have a Jewish background, a fact which is thus inapplicable to Christians.
The posttrib view does not accept the idea of a secret rapture; yet its followers forget the word, “Behold, I come as a thief” (Rev. 16.15). A thief comes secretly, is never preceded by a band, and always steals the best.
I'm curious, if you don't think this passage 1 Th 4 has to do with a seperate coming, what source do you use to support your argument? I believe in Christ's return, which is not a "rapture" at all.
The parousia of Christ is not a separate coming. It begins first at the start of the Tribulation in the clouds, then He meets the saints in the air, then He returns with His overcomer believers. Click on this graph to study the details: (1) first rapture (Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36, Matt. 24.42, Rev. 7.9); (2a,b) meeting the Lord in the air at the last trumpet (1 Thess. 4.15-17, 1 Cor. 15.23); (3) Christ returning with His saints (Jude 14,15).
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Matt24circles.gif (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Matthew_24.htm)
There is a failure in the posttrib-only view to distinguish between rapture and the appearing of the Lord. There is a difference between Christ coming for the saints and Christ coming with the saints. That which Enoch prophesied, as recorded in Jude, points to the coming of the Lord, "with his holy myriads” (see Jude 14-15 mg.) when His feet step down on the Mount of Olives. So does the prophecy which is given in Revelation: “Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen” (1.7). In taking the historical view, the historicists (amill, postmill, preterisms) and postrib onlyist interpretations regard that part of Revelation up to chapter 17 as having already been fulfilled, with only the part from chapter 17 onward waiting to be fulfilled. (This is exactly opposite to the futuristic view taken by the pretrib onlyists which deems only chapters 1-3 as having already been fulfilled, with the rest remaining to be so). Both views are too narrow. If the book of Revelation only records primarily things of the past, then how can the average child of God ever understand it? It would require doctors of philosophy and learned historians to comprehend it! Furthermore, it would no longer be revelation either!
There is nothing in that verse that even hints to a blessing coming from believing in your pet doctrine of a separate rapture or a rapture according to readiness. As a matter of fact, your separate rapture is not even mentioned in the book of Revelation at all. The blessing is simply for those who hear the words and heed the things in the prophecy. What are the words of the prophecy John is about to receive about? The entire theme is that the world and the church is going to go through hard times, but we have hope because we know that in the end God wins and in the end we will be with Christ and God. So how do we receive a blessing? By holding on to our hope, in spite of the fact of persecution. By holding on to our hope when it looks like there is no hope. By focusing our attention on the Lamb who is worthy. That's where the blessing comes from, my friend.
This blessing includes not just reading generally of coming trying events, but also to heed the things which are written in it specifically. There are consequences. If you do not heed and do not keep the word of His patience (Rev. 3.10), you shall not escape the hour of trial that shall come upon the whole earth. Hence, you shall not be raptured at the first rapture. Assuming you are a Christian, you will pass through the Tribulation. If you are not a Christian you will pass through the Tribulation and accuse the brethren (Rev. 12.10) who are raptured at the first rapture.
Rev. 14.1-5, 12.5 and the 5th seal all point to raptures that take place before the Tribulation starts. This first rapture is fully expressed in Rev. 7.9.
What is the condition for first rapture? "Hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev. 3.10). Notice this is the hour of trial, not just trial. God cannot promise no martyrdom for the believer who enters the Tribulation.
When does first rapture take place? When they are raptured such that they, "stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes" (Rev. 7.9) which is before the trumpets of the Tribulation unfold (Rev. 8ff).
There is a distinction made in the Bible between wheat and tares, some say, but no difference made between wheat and wheat; consequently, all wheat must be raptured. In reply, it should be noted that the times of ripening for wheat are not the same. Thus there are the firstfruits and the later harvest. There are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere of life. There is no exception here.
The church would lose her hope if there is no opportunity for first rapture - “Looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2.13) - for included in this hope is the blessing of escaping the Tribulation.
Were all of us believers to be raptured after the Great Tribulation, then our waiting would not be a waiting for Christ but for the Antichrist, since the latter must come first.
Were the entire body of believers to be raptured after the Tribulation, there would again be no need for us to watch and wait and be prepared. Knowing that the Lord would not come before the end of the three and a half year's period, we could live evilly up to three years five months and twenty-nine days. Yet such a concept violates the very principle of the Scriptures.
This posttrib onlyist views the twelve disciples as being purely Christians in direct contrast with the view of the first school which considers these twelve as being merely Jews. As a matter of fact, however, these twelve disciples are Christians as well as representatives of the Jewish remnant. For example, in Matthew 10.5-6 and 23.3 we see that all have a Jewish background, a fact which is thus inapplicable to Christians.
The posttrib view does not accept the idea of a secret rapture; yet its followers forget the word, “Behold, I come as a thief” (Rev. 16.15). A thief comes secretly, is never preceded by a band, and always steals the best.
I'm curious, if you don't think this passage 1 Th 4 has to do with a seperate coming, what source do you use to support your argument? I believe in Christ's return, which is not a "rapture" at all.
The parousia of Christ is not a separate coming. It begins first at the start of the Tribulation in the clouds, then He meets the saints in the air, then He returns with His overcomer believers. Click on this graph to study the details: (1) first rapture (Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36, Matt. 24.42, Rev. 7.9); (2a,b) meeting the Lord in the air at the last trumpet (1 Thess. 4.15-17, 1 Cor. 15.23); (3) Christ returning with His saints (Jude 14,15).
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Matt24circles.gif (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Matthew_24.htm)
There is a failure in the posttrib-only view to distinguish between rapture and the appearing of the Lord. There is a difference between Christ coming for the saints and Christ coming with the saints. That which Enoch prophesied, as recorded in Jude, points to the coming of the Lord, "with his holy myriads” (see Jude 14-15 mg.) when His feet step down on the Mount of Olives. So does the prophecy which is given in Revelation: “Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen” (1.7). In taking the historical view, the historicists (amill, postmill, preterisms) and postrib onlyist interpretations regard that part of Revelation up to chapter 17 as having already been fulfilled, with only the part from chapter 17 onward waiting to be fulfilled. (This is exactly opposite to the futuristic view taken by the pretrib onlyists which deems only chapters 1-3 as having already been fulfilled, with the rest remaining to be so). Both views are too narrow. If the book of Revelation only records primarily things of the past, then how can the average child of God ever understand it? It would require doctors of philosophy and learned historians to comprehend it! Furthermore, it would no longer be revelation either!