Churchwork
08-03-2007, 11:21 PM
I do believe that God gives eternal life at new birth my brother. I also believe that God in His infinite knowledge and wisdom knows those who will choose this gift , and that He did give us each free choice to choose eternal life with him.
I never stated that I believe that He would change His mind regarding this gift. I do not believe that he would ever take that gift away, and I believe that it is a gift that is given only once.
At the same time, as I said before, I believe that god gave us the freedom to choose. I believe that it is quite possible to choose to reject that gift after receiving it. Otherwise, where would our true freedom of choice be?
Then it was not a choice in the first place for eternal life as you had thought. It was a choice you made to have something you call eternal life with a sub-clause that you could back out rendering it not permanent. This then though is your choice it is not the choice for eternal life at new birth that once made is for forever. You would suggest that you were never born-again, because you think you could lose salvation tomorrow. The Roman Church and the Eastern Church are largely responsible for this false teaching of non-OSAS, a hallmark of religious Rome.
"For God has reserved a priceless inheritance for his children. It is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay" (1 Peter 1.4).
What is beyond the reach of change? The priceless inheritance that is reserved for those who are born-again: "that God has given us the privilege of being born again" (v.3).
Matt. 19. 29 Mark’s Gospel has "now in this time" and "in the world to come" (10.30).
The resurrection life Christians possess is an accomplished fact that we have died on the cross and been risen with Christ. We have a foretaste of heaven even now. Just as a person can only be born physically once, they can only be born of the Spirit once. To say otherwise is to make the salvation of the cross of non-effect. But, it is real and lasting, and those who entered into it, have received the free gift that is eternal. What is eternal, remains eternal and can never be non-eternal.
I believe that there are those who receive the gift and then choose at some later point to reject that gift and decide they no longer want it. Much the same way that we as fickled human beings will receive a gift and then exchange it for something else that we want more at a later date, and believe me, I am not trying to trivialize the gift of salvation by comparing it to an exchange at your local department store.
There are the unsaved tares in Matt. 13 that try to look like the saved wheat in the kingdom of God, but are not in fact saved at all and never were. For one to reject the faith later on is to not be filled with God's life to begin with.
The key difference between the salvation you underwent and the kind a Christian undergoes is that a Christian will be blessed by choosing eternally; that is, they have chosen the cross of salvation by Christ authentically, not with a back out clause. Then the promise of the Holy Spirit keeps us permanently. It is a glorious no way out!
To say that we have the freedom to choose whether or not we will receive that gist and be born again, but in the same breath to say that we can never choose to turn our back on that gift in the future, would be tantamount to saying that we have freedom of choice until we accept the gift and then we give up our freedom of choice in exchange for that gift.
Not at all, if the choice is a choice for forever. God is looking for those souls who choose for forever, not those who want to back out possibly at some point which you admit is an option for you.
I am simply concerned for you, to help you with this, because there is great joy in knowing I can never back out and you can have the same-the very same choice when I came to the cross as a humble sinner.
God's love is unconditional, and He does not trade a gift for a freedom. It is by receiving His gift that we are indeed set free.
It could be in my interpretation of the question, but I do not believe that God would ever take away our salvation as your statement says below. I do, however, believe that there are those who turn their back on that gift and give it up for something else.
In your case, your salvation could be taken away you say if you back out. But Scripture tells us the salvation at new birth is for forever in which those who are truly saved will never lose eternal life. They will never doubt so much that they lose the faith, because of gift of faith they received by the authentic choice. It therefore, considering verses given, is far more reasonable that those who turn their backs are either backsliding or were never saved to begin with. They may have come so close to Christ, yet had never, in fact, been born-again.
I believe that God, in His infinite knowledge, also knows that there are those who will turn their backs to Him after receiving this incredible gift. I believe this pains Him greatly, but I believe that He gave us freedom to choose even when He knows we will make the wrong choice.
This is what I believe, not what you sent me below:
IHS
David
I think we worship two different beings. While I believe the uncreated creator is the one who is looking for those who make a choice for forever unto new birth, you worship one with a choice that is untenable. I would suggest that as your years go by this problem will persist in you and cause you problems. Then comes along the angel with sickle, and you are asked why did you not want to believe in the God of everlasting life bestowed upon new birth?
What I sent you below remains still your stance and why it is problematic, because it does not agree with God's loving Word that eternal life is eternal!
Why don't you believe God gives eternal life, which is eternal, at new birth? Would not God in His infinite foreknowledge be able to foresee whom to give His life to those who are born-again and not have to change His mind? Just as we are born physically only once, we can only be born-again once as God's new creations. Wouldn't that be strange if you were saved, then you could lose salvation, to be able to get it back again. It doesn't seem real in the first place, if that was so. What are the negative consequences of being a non-OSASer? Firstly, how real is your salvation if you can lose it tomorrow? Secondly, it would be irreverent towards God's infinite foreknowledge. Thirdly, Satan is the one who suggests you can lose salvation after you get it, but true believers know they can never lose life. Hope this helps.
I never stated that I believe that He would change His mind regarding this gift. I do not believe that he would ever take that gift away, and I believe that it is a gift that is given only once.
At the same time, as I said before, I believe that god gave us the freedom to choose. I believe that it is quite possible to choose to reject that gift after receiving it. Otherwise, where would our true freedom of choice be?
Then it was not a choice in the first place for eternal life as you had thought. It was a choice you made to have something you call eternal life with a sub-clause that you could back out rendering it not permanent. This then though is your choice it is not the choice for eternal life at new birth that once made is for forever. You would suggest that you were never born-again, because you think you could lose salvation tomorrow. The Roman Church and the Eastern Church are largely responsible for this false teaching of non-OSAS, a hallmark of religious Rome.
"For God has reserved a priceless inheritance for his children. It is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay" (1 Peter 1.4).
What is beyond the reach of change? The priceless inheritance that is reserved for those who are born-again: "that God has given us the privilege of being born again" (v.3).
Matt. 19. 29 Mark’s Gospel has "now in this time" and "in the world to come" (10.30).
The resurrection life Christians possess is an accomplished fact that we have died on the cross and been risen with Christ. We have a foretaste of heaven even now. Just as a person can only be born physically once, they can only be born of the Spirit once. To say otherwise is to make the salvation of the cross of non-effect. But, it is real and lasting, and those who entered into it, have received the free gift that is eternal. What is eternal, remains eternal and can never be non-eternal.
I believe that there are those who receive the gift and then choose at some later point to reject that gift and decide they no longer want it. Much the same way that we as fickled human beings will receive a gift and then exchange it for something else that we want more at a later date, and believe me, I am not trying to trivialize the gift of salvation by comparing it to an exchange at your local department store.
There are the unsaved tares in Matt. 13 that try to look like the saved wheat in the kingdom of God, but are not in fact saved at all and never were. For one to reject the faith later on is to not be filled with God's life to begin with.
The key difference between the salvation you underwent and the kind a Christian undergoes is that a Christian will be blessed by choosing eternally; that is, they have chosen the cross of salvation by Christ authentically, not with a back out clause. Then the promise of the Holy Spirit keeps us permanently. It is a glorious no way out!
To say that we have the freedom to choose whether or not we will receive that gist and be born again, but in the same breath to say that we can never choose to turn our back on that gift in the future, would be tantamount to saying that we have freedom of choice until we accept the gift and then we give up our freedom of choice in exchange for that gift.
Not at all, if the choice is a choice for forever. God is looking for those souls who choose for forever, not those who want to back out possibly at some point which you admit is an option for you.
I am simply concerned for you, to help you with this, because there is great joy in knowing I can never back out and you can have the same-the very same choice when I came to the cross as a humble sinner.
God's love is unconditional, and He does not trade a gift for a freedom. It is by receiving His gift that we are indeed set free.
It could be in my interpretation of the question, but I do not believe that God would ever take away our salvation as your statement says below. I do, however, believe that there are those who turn their back on that gift and give it up for something else.
In your case, your salvation could be taken away you say if you back out. But Scripture tells us the salvation at new birth is for forever in which those who are truly saved will never lose eternal life. They will never doubt so much that they lose the faith, because of gift of faith they received by the authentic choice. It therefore, considering verses given, is far more reasonable that those who turn their backs are either backsliding or were never saved to begin with. They may have come so close to Christ, yet had never, in fact, been born-again.
I believe that God, in His infinite knowledge, also knows that there are those who will turn their backs to Him after receiving this incredible gift. I believe this pains Him greatly, but I believe that He gave us freedom to choose even when He knows we will make the wrong choice.
This is what I believe, not what you sent me below:
IHS
David
I think we worship two different beings. While I believe the uncreated creator is the one who is looking for those who make a choice for forever unto new birth, you worship one with a choice that is untenable. I would suggest that as your years go by this problem will persist in you and cause you problems. Then comes along the angel with sickle, and you are asked why did you not want to believe in the God of everlasting life bestowed upon new birth?
What I sent you below remains still your stance and why it is problematic, because it does not agree with God's loving Word that eternal life is eternal!
Why don't you believe God gives eternal life, which is eternal, at new birth? Would not God in His infinite foreknowledge be able to foresee whom to give His life to those who are born-again and not have to change His mind? Just as we are born physically only once, we can only be born-again once as God's new creations. Wouldn't that be strange if you were saved, then you could lose salvation, to be able to get it back again. It doesn't seem real in the first place, if that was so. What are the negative consequences of being a non-OSASer? Firstly, how real is your salvation if you can lose it tomorrow? Secondly, it would be irreverent towards God's infinite foreknowledge. Thirdly, Satan is the one who suggests you can lose salvation after you get it, but true believers know they can never lose life. Hope this helps.