Roman Church Ecclesiology

[SwanSword]

ChurchWork, I'm new, so bear with me. I'm still confused from all the questions. If I understand correctly, there are Elders who appoint Apostles who run regional churches. Begging your pardon, and with deference, that is how The Roman Catholic Church works.

A Bishop, who is an elder, ordains Priests within a Diocese, or Archdiocese. For instance: The 15 largest cities in the USA are all governed by an Archdiocese, led by a Roman Catholic Bishop who ordains all the Priests in that Archdiocese, who, in turn lead regional parishes. The Priests are the Apostles in The Roman Catholic Model of regional churches, so I think I found what you've been looking for.

Bishops and Priests are ordained through apostolic succession going back to Pope Peter I. There is a grave under the main altar at Saint Peter's Basilica in Vatican City, but until recently science was not sufficiently advanced to prove this grave contained the bones of Peter the Apostle. Recent examination has revealed this grave contains the bones of Peter.

This is only as credible as the scientists doing the analysis, and in the end each person must make a critical examination of his environment and choose his life based on this critique. But, if man never moves beyond this critique of physical reality, he is necessarily mortal, for he has chosen the physical realm in which to dwell. The man who can move into the spiritual realm, by God's Grace to have faith in Jesus Christ will be immortal, as are all who know Jesus.

Every time I run into a new board I see the same thing. The people are describing The Roman Catholic Church, but they don't know it. Maybe that's not what you're looking for. Sometimes people are only trying to explain what happened to them, and why it hurts so much. The Bible explains that too. Exodus, 20:1-6.

I'll take the time to show you how all of your beliefs are contained in Roman Catholic Doctrine. Most Christians don't know The Holy Bible is Roman Catholic Doctrine. That's the reason other boards don't want you there. You tell The Truth, although the terminology is somewhat uncommon. The authority structure of the world, in every facet is deceived. And if anyone should seek authority they will become deceived.

I seek authority over no one, nor do I want human praise. I make people an offer for immortality in everlasting paradise, as rulers of The All, with God; an inheritance from our Father, through our Brother, by The Holy Spirit.


We can all shed the chips on our shoulders by begging for God's Mercy every day, and sacrificing ourselves for others for Jesus.


I don't knock myself out trying to save everyone else. Some gifts from our Heavenly Father are not to be shared. Immortality is a gift from God that we can't give away to others because God decides who lives and who dies. If any man has immortality it came directly from God.

[Churchwork]

Swansword,

Welcome! Elders of a locality don't appoint Apostles for a region of churches, but vic versa. The Roman Church then has it backwards. Never in the Bible will you find people like Paul, who was not an elder, being appointed by an Elder of a locality, such as the Elders of Ephesus. Paul is the one who chose the Elders of Ephesus. Paul was a regional apostle with no set meeting place usually.

There is no precedence for some guy mislabeled a Bishop to appoint Elders of many cities of an Archdiocese. Firstly, the region is too large, since USA is not a region of churches, but a state is a region of churches. There is no man in charge of many region of churches in the Bible or continents. God does this on purpose to disallow man to have such power in the universal Church. Any system like the Roman Church that tries to do this is false as it tries to usurp God's will.

An apostle is not an Elder of locality, but appoints Elders of locality, and in turn those Elders approve of the Elders of many meeting places within the locality. Very simple and sweet.

Since all Christians are the priesthood, there is no priest clergy and laity division, so this is another point to take notice of in refusing the Roman Church. Intermediary Priesthood is Judaize Christianity and is to be rejected in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The mistake the Roman Church made was to place its center not only in Rome (for it is Jerusalem that is to be the center), and hence religious Rome will be destroyed (Rev. 17) centered on the 7 hilled city of Rome along with political Rome, but also to place it above the small rock Peter and not the Rock of Christ. Distinguish between Petra and Petros. Don't place faith in men like popes. There were no saved popes. If they were Christians they would not have let themselves be popes are men in charge of continents, for no such ordination is found in God's Word.

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16.18).

The Roman Church misinterpreted this verse to think the church is built upon Peter the small rock, but Jesus was referring to Himself as this Rock. Peter is referred to here as "Petros" not "Petra" which is Jesus the Rock.

"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16.18). What church is this? Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God, and our Lord declared that He would build His Church upon this confession—the confession that, as to His Person He is the Son of God, and as to His work He is the Christ of God. This Church comprises all the saved, without reference to time or space, i.e. all who in the Purpose of God are redeemed by virtue of the shed Blood of the Lord Jesus, and are born again by the operation of His Spirit. This is the Church universal, the Church of God, the Body of Christ.

When the Lord told Simon, "Thou art Peter," He meant, "You are a stone." Peter here represents all the ministers in the Church. All who work and serve must be stones. Though these stones are not as massive as the Rock, they nonetheless bear the same nature as the Rock which is that of firmness and unshakableness. Here, therefore, we see that a minister must also not be shaken, for is he not a stone? Yet we all know only too well that unfortunately too many are shaken and unreliable. And this is the very problem we hope now to address.

This matter of Peter's physical body is also Judaizing Christianity in other respects with earthly promises and physical buildings over his body. And finally, the fourth way to Judaize Christianity with a plethora of written codes which we know the Roman system is riff with.

Everyone is immortal. We live mortally today, but we will ALL be resurrected either for the new city or for hell. God does not treat us as instrumental value for some of us to cease to exist as a means to an end, but made us all in His image, and His image can never be annihilated. Believe this same God I believe in, for He is the God of the Bible and fully proven on all accounts.

I am not aware the Roman Church teaches some people are mortal and will cease to exist, for that is what mortal means. Rather, the Roman Church believes in non-OSAS, having no faith that God gives eternal life at new birth and not trusting God's infinite foreknowledge to know whom to give His life to in foreseeing our free-choice.

I have never had anything to do with the Roman Church, but you have, and you mentioned being hurt, but you have some hurt associated with them as their system is designed to use as a control. If you can lose salvation if you don't remain in their good standing, that is how they control and manipulate you and your funds.

Appreciate why YOU mentioned Ex. 20.1-6 because your sub-conscious is telling you this is an issue for your system. Often we project ourselves with our own words and bring something up first as a defensive posture. It says, make no "graven image...in the earth beneath" (v.4) where Mary is, awaiting resurrection in Hades, the place of timeless unawares for that great day of resurrection (1 Thess. 4.15-17) to be raised up with the saints-all Christians and all believers of the OT! All flesh born of the flesh is what? FLESH. Flesh is sin of the body and self of the soul, and Mary was born a sinner just like you and I.

Most Christians know the Holy Bible is not the Roman Catholic doctrine, e.g. regarding Mary being sinless, amillennialism overlooking chiliasm (premillennial) in the first century, intermediary priesthood, earthly promises, physical buildings, written codes, paying for indulges, and no faith that salvation is eternal at new birth and can never be lost. Satan wants you to think salvation is not eternal at new birth so he can cast doubt in your heart, and he wants you deny the millennial peace that is to come after this dispensation of grace to think it is happening now to degrade your conscience for him, and against God. Rev. 20.3 says the nations won't be deceived as they are now in the 1000 years.

The terminology I use such as osas arminian, Biblocality, gap restoration, our being tripartite, and partial rapture are just fancy terms to describe important points in the Word of God, but can be explained very simply with plain words with the verses that have been given.

The reason the Roman Church discussion boards ban on this basis is not for these fancy words as you thought, but even when these words are not even mentioned they ban, even more, because these truths expose the mistaken assumptions of RC adherents. This phenomenon is not solely RC, but most people do this to hold onto their assumed beliefs. But, instead of listening to their conscience, they recede, because they are so committed to preconceived and indoctrinated notions, one would be hard pressed to convince them otherwise. Most Roman Catholics are unsaved. Their conscience should convict them if they were saved so as to not remain in the RC much longer. The Roman Church is an authority system that usurped itself in the 4th church period of Thyatira (the last 4 church periods are still with us today, whereas the first 3 have since passed) and is discussed extensively in Revelation 17 and 14.8 as the woman who sits on the beast of nations and makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications. If you are in the Holy Spirit, you can sense this; if you are not, you will never be able to. It's impossible. As a little flock, and not like a mustard seed that grows into a tree not of its kind, will you be able to appreciate these truths.

Know that Satan tries to replicate everything to make such a close approximation and facsimile to God's design a great many will be deceived who are the unsaved tares that try to look like the saved wheat in the kingdom of heaven as presenting themselves in the church, but they are not in the Church at all. The operate within the sphere and boundary of the kingdom, but they are not in Church. Matthew 13 goes into detail what will happen to most in religious Rome when He brings His sickle to them and separates them from the little flock. Many humbly submit themselves to Satan and what to be controlled by him in a Catholic system. Catholic really refers to the universal Church, so Satan incorporates this word for religious Rome. Even it is in the name of Christ so Satan will have it destroyed, because he can't even have anything in the name of Christ; Satan wants everything destroyed anyway.

May these words help. :smile:

[SwanSword]

I guess it's settled then.

[Churchwork]

Your last post doesn't sound like repentance nor dealing with these issues before you in any way whatsoever so as to shut your mind down and remain as you were.

You still have all these outstanding issues, so why agree when you actually disagree? The Bible says be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8). For you it is yet unsettled and remains under judgment and to be judged at Great White Throne. Many people call themselves Christians, but most are not.

Thus, by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit we know you by your fruit. The answers you have given and what you affiliate with-the woman who sits on the beats who makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (Rev. 14.8; ch. 17)-tells us a lot about you.

Hailing Mary is a sin. Mary-your idol-is a woman who was born into sin like you and I were born of the flesh, and all flesh born of the flesh is flesh. To express yourself in this way is at enmity with God of the Bible of 66 books.

It is important for someone to ask you, Why do you reject God's infinite foreknowledge? That's called open theism, which the church has always considered a heresy.

Since you said you were "done" with these forums in your pm, I removed your account as you wish. You shouldn't have stopped short. You're welcome to return anytime you like to discuss these matters further.