The Professor

[Professor]

I’ll get right to the point! Every since Martin Luther received the revelation from God that salvation was a free gift from God, that came through grace and faith…there has been a chasm between the Catholic and the Protestant. As an ordained Protestant minister I know all of the doctrinal problems involved in Catholicism. I have studied church history in college and on my spare time, I know about all of the church councils through the ages and the anti-biblical decisions they made, I know Peter wasn’t the first pope. I know praying to Mary is not scriptural or right. I know we can confess our sins to the Lord directly and not a priest. I know that a wafer and wine isn’t actually Jesus when I take communion.

I also know that if Martin Luther and some of the other reformers could see where the Protestant movement has gone, I think they would be ashamed and disgusted. If the Apostle Paul could see the confusion and apostasy in the church both Catholic and Protestant he would scream. Why? The Protestant church has become the very thing it despised. I have spent 23 years in the Air Force and have traveled all over the world. I have worshipped in nearly every church imaginable; (including Catholic) these are some reasons and observations as to why I feel there needs to be a second reformation. First the observations: While Catholicism has its problems let’s look at the history and flaws in Protestantism.

First Protestantism has many different groups: Fundamentalist, Evangelicals, Charismatic, Pentecostals, Holiness, Oneness (Jesus Only), and The Word Faith groups. This fragmenting of Protestantism is the first problem in itself. Fundamentalist say they believe in the Bible literally yet most reject the gifts of the Spirit, The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and healing for today. They trust Scofield’s teaching more than they trust the Bible itself. While in Bible College I heard teachers and students a like quote Scofield like he was The Apostle Paul. Evangelicals say they believe in fulfilling the Great Commission yet many Evangelical churches are selectively racist; America has driven segregation out of almost every place except their churches. Martin Luther King said Sunday morning is the most segregated time of the week. Both white and black churches are guilty of this. However I must say America’s history is silent concerning the Protestant churches silence through 300 years of slavery and annihilation of Native Americans. The Charismatic movement on a positive note brought praise and worship back to it’s rightful place in the Body of Christ, yet they also ushered in a propensity to place trust “new revelations” that don’t always line up with scripture. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit and the gift of prophecy, but these utterance gifts MUST line up with scripture! According to New Testament examples of prophecy, most prophecies are warnings or words of encouragement; NOT insight on how to be a millionaire. In many Charismatic churches, everyone has a “word from God”; this has caused many a problem in the lives of the saints of God.

I am from the category called Pentecostal, oh yeah we have problems as well. Pentecostals stress the need to be Spirit-filled, which I agree with, yet they over emphasize speaking in tongues; the key issue is the need to be Spirit-filled! I believe in the gifts of the Spirit, I pray in tongues myself…But! Speaking in tongues don’t confirm a person’s holiness or spirituality. (There are 8 other spiritual gifts!) Show me a Christian that shares Christ (Acts 1:8) and shares love (ICor.13) and I’ll show you a Spirit-filled saint. Holiness churches tell people they must dress a certain way to be saved, look sour and not have any fun, holiness is important and all believers must live separated lives, BUT! Holiness is a way of life that can only occur after the New Birth. Wearing long dresses and black suits in the summer DON”T MAKE YOU HOLY! The Word/Faith movement has done some positive things in encouraging people to study the Word, yet the enemy duped some of them into preaching prosperity as the Gospel and not salvation and a hunger for spiritual blessing versus the material. The other problem with the faith camp is the false teaching of believers never having problems and “divine healing” or the denial of sickness in the life of a believer.

I believe in healing and have received healing myself, but Christians are not exempt from getting sick. (Kenneth Hagin Sr.; Fred Price and his wife; and R.W. Shambach have all preached divine healing and have all been severely ill recently) Remember when Jesus encountered a man born blind, his disciples asked the question, “Who sinned him or his parents?” Jesus said, “Neither”. Paul’s dear friend Epaphroditis was sick nigh unto death, but Paul said God had mercy on him. Saved people can and do get sick! The Lord can also heal us as well. Our faith will be tested one way or another, why should we be any different than Abraham, Joseph, Job, or Daniel; their faith was tested greatly on many occasions. It was because of their faith they endured hard times and persecutions. The Oneness or Apostolic camp believes in Jesus only and denies the Trinity. They also over emphasize the act of baptism. Salvation comes through the avenue of GRACE through FAITH! They believe baptism saves yet the Bible is clear, belief MUST precede baptism or it is an empty act. (Read Philip and Eunuch in Book of Acts) What is my point? The bottom line is Jesus died for our sins and we must preach this to a lost and dying world. I went to a revival 5 years ago (A world famous evangelist was there); he preached before at least 3,000 people and talked about prosperity and healing for 2 hours. He called for a prayer line and never mentioned salvation through grace and faith. What does it profit a man to have prosperity and divine health and not eternal life and a close walk with Jesus.


There is a need for unity amongst believers; this is difficult because each of the groups I mentioned has its good points and strengths, yet they are all flawed in some way. The Word of God has no flaws, and this is where we must meet. I was raised in the Baptist church, I went to a Lutheran School (middle school), I have had fellowship with different groups within the military chapel system, and I worked with foreign missionaries in Korea for 2 years. I helped start the first Church of God in Christ in Korea. During Operation Desert Storm I lead 2 Muslims to Christ with an Assembly of God brother and an apostolic brother. (This was not easy…but it happened) I have preached in Honduras, Turkey, and Somalia. Now why am I sharing all of this? Everywhere I went God teamed me up with people from nearly every group I mentioned…AND IT WORKED! It worked because in the military we didn’t have the luxury of always finding Christians just like you. My first assignment overseas I was teamed up with a Southern Baptist Caucasian brother. He was from Forsythe County, Georgia. This is one of the most racist areas in America, yet we worked together like brothers.

The demonic walls of separation in the Protestant church MUST come down. How can we preach to the Catholic about the mote in his eye, while we the Protestants have a beam in our own? The saints of God must gather at the foot of the cross of Jesus. The Word of God must be all of our training manuals. Salvation by grace through faith is what caused Martin Luther to start the first reformation; we have departed from this in a great way. The doctrine of salvation through grace and faith has to be the preeminent prime directive for the church. Paul said it best in Romans 1:16, “For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation, to the Jew first and to the Gentile.” We must rally around the Gospel of Christ as our anthem and battle cry. Paul also said, “Woe unto me if I preach not the Gospel.” What is the Gospel? It isn’t politics, it isn’t prosperity, and it isn’t divine healing or speaking in tongues. These things have their place but they cannot replace the simplicity of the Gospel. Jesus came to save the world! Salvation is a free gift that is for all that desire it. This is what Martin Luther nearly died to protect. Paul did die to protect this doctrine! All of the disciples died for this message of hope in Christ. Let us not stain their memory by dividing over things that don’t impact salvation.

Salvation of the soul is the main issue, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul. Eternity is a long time, Insuring people spend it with the Lord is more important than insuring they have wealth! What do you think can help usher in the Second Reformation?


The Professor

[Professor]

When Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses on the door of the church, he did so not to create a denomination, as some believe. Martin Luther wanted to correct anti-biblical practices being promoted in the church. The main theme revolved around the practice of “selling indulgences”. What the church was doing was convincing people that they could “pay” their family members out of purgatory. The church did this primarily to finance the Popes greed and desire to finance the Cistene Chapel in Rome. Now we Protestants read this stuff in Church History books and we gasp, yet how many of us “enlightened” Spirit-filled Protestants that know of Bishops, Pastors, and Preachers in our Protestant churches that “sell blessings” today.

We have condemned Catholics for centuries, yet we have the same skeletons in our closets. From Reverend Ike, Robert Tildon, or to the pastor in the storefront in the inner city, we too have been guilty of “selling blessings”. Every Protestant denomination (and non-denomination) has had it share of “Greedy Popes”. I really admired Martin Luther’s guts, but where are the Martin Luther’s of today? When Oral Roberts said he would die unless he got 80 million dollars in donations, where was the outrage from Christians? Of course the world ridiculed his nonsense, but there was no moral outrage from any Christian leaders. Why? Well I’ll tell you why! It is a very lonely position when you stand on the truth of scripture. We are quick to condemn Catholics trust in traditions and church doctrine, but we are equally guilty! How often have you seen and heard things done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in your church, but in your gut (spirit) you knew it was against the Bible? And why didn’t you say something is the more disturbing question.

Jim Jones was able to take hundreds of lives in Guyana because someone refused to listen to their gut (spirit). I firmly believe in supporting the local church and helping pastors, I want to make that clear. However there is a real epidemic of spiritually stupid “saints” that don’t study their Bibles and try every spirit by the Spirit. We were given the ability to discern so we WON’T end up giving our money to crooks and drinking poison Kool-Aid! Many of today’s most prominent preachers would be labeled heretics hundreds of years ago because MOST clergymen were devout Theologians and serious students of scripture. Today ordination papers and licenses are given to anyone that say’s they are called to preach. I agree that being Spirit-filled and called is the first priority of being a preacher, but ALSO there has to be training…SERIOUS TRAINING! A lack of understanding of just the basic Bible doctrines of the faith can lead to the types of abuses I am talking about. Martin Luther was able to stand up to the lies of Rome because he was filled with the knowledge of the truth. I am a Pentecostal preacher, I believe in the Charismatic Gifts of the Spirit, but that doesn’t negate the fact that we must have a scholarly approach to the scriptures and its teachings.

I have heard PREACHERS say stupid things like, “I don’t know the Bible that well but I am filled-with the Holy Ghost and fire!” This person is a prime candidate for deception and a good whipping from the devil! The Bible say’s in 1st Timothy 4:4 “In the last days some shall DEPART from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and DOCTRINES of devils.” The Devil will fill your head with HIS doctrine (teaching) if your head isn’t filled with sound Bible doctrine. Martin Luther unlike other priest actually studied the Bible for truth and not to support a man made lie. We must as individual believers have reformer’s courage to stand up to the church when it strays from the truth of scripture. I know it sounds crazy to say stand up AGAINST the church, I am of course talking about organized denominational/non-denominational institutions that profess to be of Jesus Christ, yet stray away from the truth of Jesus Christ. I have seen enough heresy in the church in the last 25 years of my life to make ones head spin and the majority of it went unchallenged.

We allow “preachers” to say anything in our pulpits and we say AMEN! We are afraid to be attacked for standing up for the truth. In 1980 I was stationed at Kunsan Air Base in South Korea. While there I heard a Baptist preacher (Who was also a Freemason) tell a group in Bible study that “all roads lead to Rome” meaning every religion can get you to heaven. I was a new believer, but I knew this was wrong! I challenged him, because NO ONE else would say a word. He was a popular preacher and I was a new convert so you can imagine whose side everyone lined up on. My point is this, when you hear false preaching or teaching SAY SOMETHING! The Apostle Paul was the new kid on the block (Read Galatians) yet he challenged and corrected the Chief Apostle Peter for treating the Gentile believers wrong.

Ministers are NOT infallible, only the Word of God is! No matter how popular or how powerful a preacher is, they are NOT above reproach!


But we will continue to devote ourselves steadfastly to prayer and the ministry of the Word. (Acts 6:4 Amp)


This is one of the key verses in the Bible to help a novice minister be a successful tool for the Master. Preaching has nothing to do with popularity, titles, or position. The successful minister is the one that realizes that sharing God’s Word is a divine call and privilege that can’t be done in one’s own strength.

The Apostles took this charge so seriously that they knew total devotion to prayer and study was paramount. A preacher that doesn’t devote his life to prayer and study is a potential false prophet. Satan loves preachers that say “I’m to busy to study” or “I don’t think preachers need formal Bible training.”

The gospel preacher must devote his (or her) life to purity of doctrine. Paul warned Timothy to avoid fables and old wives tales. It’s very easy for preachers to get involved in the “flavor of the month” teachings. In last 20 years we have been bombarded with the “faith” message, “prosperity gospel”, “Spiritual Warfare”, and “Prophecy”. Every one is an “Apostle” or “Bishop”; no one is simply a Gospel preacher. Don’t get caught up in trends and hype. Be lead by the Holy Ghost and walk in your calling. I have been preaching 23 years. I have done the work of an evangelist, and served in pastoral capacities, but I am called to teach. My anointing is that of a teacher. It would be foolish to try and be anything else. I live to study and teach the Word of God. We need more “Martin Luther’s” in the church today. Too much of our teaching today is unbalanced. We have churches teaching crazy things like you have to speak in tongues to be saved, Christians should never get sick, or you can only be saved in MY church! Wake up saints and speak out against false teaching! There are churches that teach everyone has a demon, yes some people need demons cast out! However some problems are not demon powered but human error! Teaching the truth can solve more problems in the church than by casting out a “demon”.




(Note: I am not picking on any particular denomination, there is enough heresy in every Protestant denomination)

[Churchwork]

I agreed with almost everything you said and read it very closely. Now for the part to challenge you and I know you will appreciate my words, for deep down inside your regenerated spirit will sense it is true what I am about to say.

You call yourself Protestant (protesting the Roman Church) in this denomination and the denomination of Pentecostalism ("gibberish babble"), but the Bible says never to say "I of Apollos" or "I of Cephas" which is the equivalent of saying you are in this or that denomination. Even if the only problem either of these two systems had was this alone, it would still be wrong to call yourself either of these things, because the body of Christ never divides this way. Remember always, the only way the body of Christ is to be divided is according to locality, e.g. church of your city is what you should say your membership is in locally just as if you had lived in Ephesus, then you could say you belong to the church of Ephesus in the churches of Asia Minor.

However, these two systems have their own set of errors too which stick out like a sore thumb (in addition to the points you made). The protestant system is a pastoral system carried over from the Roman Church.

Watchman Nee (CFP white cover), Church and the Work (vol. 1-3), writes,

Let me first explain what we leave behind when we leave the denominations. If we do not know what we have left behind, it is true, we too may become a denomination. According to my understanding, when we leave the denominations, we leave behind two things: (a) various divisions such as are caused by the use of different names for the denominations; and (b) the pastoral system found in denominations. What is the pastoral system? It is bringing the intermediary priestly system of Judaism into Christianity. Unfortunately both Catholics and Protestants have adopted this.
Someone may ask us, Why do you oppose "pastors"? I say in response that I do not oppose "pastors"; I only object to the "pastoral system." If anyone has the gift of a pastor, we treasure him very much. Yet whether a person has a pastoral gift or not, we must not make anyone into a special priest and introduce a disguised form of priestly system into our midst. Even those with a pastoral gift we will not treat as intermediaries.The pastoral system is basically this. You go to pastoral school and get your ordinances to be a pastor, even to exclusion of those who have no formal training yet may be more effective. Then that pastor takes the spotlight to the exclusion of virtually the rest in the congregation, creating a clergy and laity system. This is easily solved by introducing more active participation from others as well as circulating the role of the pastor, but not to the extent where it becomes so diffused that no meaningful message has the time of day to be given.

The second problem is Pentecostalism, which is just Montanism redux from the second century (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/montanism.htm) otherwise known as "gibberish babble" (a second century heresy brought into the church which even Martin Luther was against in his day long before Pentecostalism got so popular in the early 20th century). No verses in Scripture point to gibberish babble, plus, Professor, the fact that you agreed with question that tongues are only languages contradicts what you have said above that you believe tongues are gibberish babble (which is not praying in tongues, for praying in tongues is praying in a language you know, though may not be known to others). Your answer at the time of this writing was:

Biblical tongues are languages only:
Yes :huh:

Therefore, you would need not to have a doubletongue about this. Hence Board Etiquette #4 (http://biblocality.com/forums/rules.php#rules) is stipulated not to hold two opposing views. My heart goes out to you, because I know how difficult it is, considering wherever you go it seems people have taken on the view that tongues means gibberish babble, but if one is to be an apostle or an elder, this is a sure sign they are not yet, because they would be altering God's Word. Now even teachers can be wrong on some particular matter, yet may still be teachers, but in the case of apostles and elders, there are no exceptions, at least not in this new reformation you are calling for which we may term Biblocality.

An issue to have clarity on also to not go beyond the boundary of a role will be most helpful. In the Scriptures we see prophets, evangelists and teachers (shepherds) operating locally and only apostles work regionally. For example, recall what happened after Philip and the Eunuch met. After their discourse, Philip, the evangelist, settled down locally as indicated when Acts 8 says "until he came to Caesarea" (v.40).

Just to clarify if to be sure! Apostles are those who agree in their being directly commissioned by God by proof of agreeing to a certain number of questions together. Just as Paul achieved agreement with Peter and James and John. Elders (bishops) of a locality are appointed by them, and Elders of meeting places are approved by the Elders of a locality. Not everyone is a teacher, nor should such a thing ever be exalted, though certainly appreciated. To be a teacher one needs the gift of teaching. This is the sole ground for being a professor or shepherd. Some employed teachers in the world do not have the gift of teaching.

[Churchwork]

The Holy Spirit has given me a prophetic word to share with you Mark Stevens (Professor) that you have shut your mind down to this matter and will not deal with it to God's good pleasure to bring you to repentance based on your subequent private message. In otherwords, I know the type, and this type will not consider possibly changing except on their accord privately through much battle alone with the Word. May you one day also. Biblocality Forums is a place of authority which checks people on false tongues gibberish babble because this is a doorway or entry point for the evil spirit to set up shop through false tongues. Let's stop him in his tracks now!

Your account was removed because you said you were an apostle and an elder and you are not of course, because you have altered the Word of God on tongues to make it gibberish babble for mediums and psychics. No apostle or elder would make this mistake.