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Razor
01-08-2006, 08:10 AM
Greetings all,
Some Food for thought , Jesus did some pretty amazing things while he was in the Flesh... from the Western Catholic reporter..

From the Western Catholic Reporter


Quote:The cock will crow at the breaking of your own ego - there are lots of ways to wake up!


John Shea gave me those words and I understood them a little better recently as I stood in line at an airport: I'd checked in for a flight, approached security, saw a huge line-up, and accepted the fact that it would take at least 40 minutes to get through it.

I was alright with the long wait and moved patiently in the line - until, just as my turn came, another security crew arrived, opened a second scanning machine, and a whole line-up of people, behind me, who hadn't waited the 40 minutes, got their turns almost immediately.

My Heart Isn't Always Generous

I still got my turn as I would have before, but something inside of me felt slighted and angry: "This wasn't fair! I'd been waiting for 40 minutes and they got their turns at the same time as I did!"

That experience taught me something, beyond the fact that my heart isn't always huge and generous. It helped me understand something about Jesus' parable concerning the workers who came at the 11th hour and received the same wages as those who'd worked all day and what is meant by the challenge that is given to those who grumbled about the unfairness of this.

Are we jealous because God is generous? Does it bother us when others are given unmerited gifts and forgiveness?

You bet! And ultimately that sense of injustice, of envy that someone else caught a break, is a huge stumbling block to our happiness. Why? Because something in us reacts negatively when it seems that life is not making others pay the same dues as we're paying.

In the Gospels, we see an incident where Jesus goes to the synagogue on a Sabbath, stands up to read and quotes a text from Isaiah - except he doesn't quote it fully but omits a part. The text (Isaiah 61:1-2) would have been well-known to his listeners and it describes Isaiah's vision of what will be the sign that God has finally broken into the world and irrevocably changed things.

And what will that be? For Isaiah, the sign that God is now ruling the earth will be good news for the poor, consolation for the broken-hearted, freedom for the enslaved, grace abundant for everyone and vengeance on the wicked.

Notice though, when Jesus quotes this, he leaves out the part about vengeance.

Unlike Isaiah, he doesn't say that part of our joy will be seeing the wicked punished. In heaven we will be given what we're owed and more (unmerited gift, forgiveness we don't deserve, joy beyond imagining) but, it seems, we will not be given the joy of seeing the wicked punished.

The joys of heaven will not include seeing Hitler suffer. Indeed the natural itch we have for strict justice ("An eye for an eye") is exactly that, a natural itch, something the Gospels invite us beyond. The desire for strict justice blocks our capacity for forgiveness and thereby prevents us from entering heaven where God, like the father of the prodigal son, embraces and forgives without demanding a pound of flesh for a pound of sin.

We know we need God's mercy, but if grace is true for us, it has to be true for everyone; if forgiveness is given us, it must be given everybody; and if God does not avenge our misdeeds, God must not avenge the misdeeds of others either. Such is the logic of grace and such is the love of the God to whom we must attune ourselves.

Happiness is not about vengeance, but about forgiveness, not about capital punishment, but about living beyond even murder. It is not surprising that, in some of the great saints, we see a theology bordering on universalism, namely, the belief that God will save everyone.

They believed this not because they didn't believe in hell or the possibility of forever excluding ourselves from God, but because they believed that God's love is so universal, so powerful, and so inviting that, ultimately, even those in hell will see the error of their ways, swallow their pride and give themselves over to love. The final triumph of God, they felt, will be when the devil himself converts and hell is empty.

Maybe that will never happen. God leaves us free. But, when I, or anyone else, is upset at an airport, at a parole-board hearing, or anywhere else where someone gets something we don't think he or she deserves, we have to accept that we're still a long ways from understanding and accepting the kingdom of God.

- By FR. RON ROLHEISER, omi

Peace to you all

Churchwork
01-08-2006, 09:25 AM
Razor,

How does this help solve your problem though that you say you are a universalist in which you claim everyone will be saved and there is no such thing as hell? Where is the love and the peace as fruit of the Spirit by saying laying on of hands is a lie? Read Acts.

I can see how you use this article to think God's mercy will coerce people into believing Him. It is not the case at all. Some people will refuse God forever such as yourself already condemned ("he that believeth not is condemned already" John 3.18). You are simply too proud to mourn and repent. Jesus did not omit any text. Do not let your overassuming delusion cloud your judgment; stop reviling Jesus for how can you receive Him in such a condition?

Don't you know you are going to hell? How could you if you are still an unregenerate?

Razor
01-08-2006, 02:06 PM
Greetings Troy,
The Article I posted was an interesting insight as to what a member of the Roman Catholic Church thought about the comming Kingdom of God.
I found another person of Faiths view point interesting.

Also I found it to be a surprising article to be written in a Roman Catholic News paper, when you consider some of the strict doctrines of their Church.

I could never be a Roman Catholic myself, as I already know that God reconciled all of creation to himself through the Cross of Christ, so I have no need to partake in the Ucherist.
However I am not about to condemn anybody for the way they choose to follow Jesus.
Even Jesus himself said ... Just believe!

Troy I am surprised at you... It is written in Scripture that God wills all men to be saved and brought to the Knowledge of the Truth, and that God will not turn away from any purpose he has purposed.

No Christian, or Group of Christians or any particular Christian denomination has all the answers with Gods plan, you will notice right at the end of Revalations that God says his mystery will finaly be revealed to everybody by him.... not by any of us.

In the meantime, Faith in Christ Jesus, is the only righteousness in the sight of God..... the truth never changes.......

Peace

Razor
01-08-2006, 02:57 PM
Some relevant Scriptures in regards to Universal Salvation for all...

There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, to be testified in due time (1 Timothy 2:5-6).

Churchwork
01-08-2006, 03:25 PM
Razor,

Jesus died for all, but not all accept His ransom, so not all receive His salvation. Since you think everyone is saved, this is your false teaching, but it is not a teaching found in the Scriptures. So the Bible warns us we shall know them by their fruit. This is how I know you Razor through your false teaching where you misread Scriptures brutally so you don't think you will have to go to hell. Some people as yourself don't really believe in Jesus. Not everyone who says they believe in Jesus actually do. God knows better, so He says observe their fruit to see. I see you Razor, and your false fruit is believing everyone is saved, even though they don't believe in Christ, nor will they, so hell is what is needed. Why call Jesus a liar when Jesus spoke of hell more than any other?

Razor
01-08-2006, 03:56 PM
Greetings Troy
I am not out to Win any arguement with you on Scripture
The Word of God speaks for itself, those with ears to hear ...hear


God will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4).

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The Lord canst do all things, and that no purpose of His can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Churchwork
01-08-2006, 04:20 PM
You should not alter Scriptures to make your case. That has repercussions according to Rev. 22.18,19.

I am not familiar with your version of the Bible.

1 Tim. 2.4 reads, "who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth" (ASV). RSV says God "desires" all men to be saved. NLT says He "wants all men to be saved". Darby, "who desires that all men should be saved". Righteously God wants eveyone to be saved, but the reality is not everyone wants salvation, just as you don't Razor.

You have a bad tendency to make your point, misreading the Scriptures, then skilling over the proper reading of the Scriptures which I give you, by deflecting onto the next thing. You seem way out of control. I am one who would have you be saved; I want you to be saved, but realistically I know that is not likely considering your condition.

Razor
01-08-2006, 04:26 PM
Greetings Troy for your consideration....


<FONT face=Verdana size=2>Did God draw you to Himself or was it something you chose to do out of your own “free will”?

Churchwork
01-08-2006, 04:39 PM
Onto your next deflection?

Your use of html creates this error in your post, making the same mistake again and again. Have you ever heard the saying the definition of insanity is continuing to do what you have always done to always get the same result that is wrong. This behavior pattern is very similar to your behavior pattern like a pinball bouncing around never addressing the information of how you misread the Scriptures. That can't be healthy.

To your question, the answer is God drew me by the Holy Spirit so that my choice in my free-will was free to choose to so be drawn. I did choose. God made my free-will to be able to choose because it was made in His image to receive God's drawing hand if I choose. God does all He can do, then man must do his part. God does not make robots.