Churchwork
12-31-2005, 10:17 PM
Below is a very common thought process of an unregenerated atheist. Let him (Reginald Le Sueur) speak, and then see the response and truth to his mistaken assumptions. This will be a great help to others.
> The way we see it is, that we atheists with our positive philosophies of
> secular humanism and our naturalistic interpretation of the world are
> perfectly adequately equipped to deal with life. Don't forget there was a
> time when humans did not exist, God had not been thought up, Jesus and Mary
> were unknown, yet the world carried on and evolved. The ancient Egyptians
> knew nothing of Yahweh or Jesus but they built one of the worlds great
> civilisations,-it would probably still exist but for fanatical Christians
> and Moslems. We are not bad people,-we have a highly developed moral
> sense,-the only difference is we do not lay all the credit for it at the
> feet of Jesus, Mary et al. The burden of proof for their existence is upon
> believers; the Bible is just a book written by men,-a big inconsistent mixed
> up set of writings,-interesting, but not to be slavishly followed.. Most of
> the 10 commandments are irrelevent as they deal with the Israelites
> relationship with their tribal god; the others, do not steal, murder covet
> your neighbour's things etc are universal human values, developed by
> proto-humans (and higher animals) as a way of building a stable society in
> which everyone can be secure. You and I have similar basic human values,--we
> just think you have become carried away by your enthusiasm for what is
> basically a foreign alien middle-eastern religion which was originally
> imposed by Rome on its provinces, and enforced by means of terror by the
> Catholic, and later also Protestant churches.
Since with all this, your spirit is still unregenerate, you may be able to live in the world, but you do not possess authentic life, resurrection life. God in the eternity of the past who was revealed by the Holy Spirit was never thought up. The dust of creation was the work of Christ the Creator. Egyptians, prior to 6000 B.C. is what the Bible deems as the dust, in which such civilizations were without God-consciousness. They were utterly incapable of worshipping God of the Bible for God had not yet revealed Himself.
They did not have the capacity to know God of the Bible because they were still the formation of the dust to create the first Adamic man. Even before the Egyptians, before the earth was made desolate in Gen. 1.2 because of sins of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages, there were also civilizations, but again, they were just considered the dust (Gen. 2.7) according to the Scriptures. In other words, you gain nothing from them for your spirit to be quickened with God's life. Naturally the dust formed into man's body and much that entailed this formation passed away, especially pre-endemic Egyptians and their pyramid obsessions. How mindless to say you wish this ideology remained!
Mary was a sinner, just like you and I. Christians do not see her as a sinless sacrifice. She was merely the abode God entered through to break into creation to show us how to live from birth to adulthood as well as to be Redeemer and Savior. Only Christ, being Creator, was the sinless sacrifice who could forgive sins. Since you have not come to the cross as a helpless sinner, you are unforgiven and hellbound. This is because you are not regenerated with new life and the Holy Spirit will not enter in your spirit where the evil spirit resides. You're still living in the old creation from the fall.
Since Christians do have the burden, and have proven the Scriptures flawless (and see the 4 Step Proof (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/perfectproof.htm)), now the burden is on you to find fault, which you have failed to do so. Remember, self-declarations don't count, you have to prove it!
The 10 commandments all remain except one. Only the ceremonial covenant of the sabbath is no longer kept since Christ came to fill up the law to give the new covenant. The other 9 are moral in nature, and the fact that you do not see their moral application, shows how dead your conscience is. For example, do not bear false witness is a sin to one with God's uncreated life, but not to you because your spirit is dead to God.
God of the Bible succeeds where all others fail. Israel was chosen as the first nation God revealed Himself too because they were finally willing to listen, when no others were. This was in part because they suffered greatly, enslaved for 400 years. It tends to have this effect.
We are not proto-humans, we are humans, made in God's image, with a spirit, soul and body. This remains forever, no matter how many marks of the beast you put in your system to alter your being. You agree with the commandments in one breath and then in another you disagree with them, you said. This is a sin. Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8) and stop pointing to self.
As the centuries followed, Rev. 2 & 3 predicted how the church (or more accurately the kingdom of heaven, its outward appearances or boundary) would become corrupted. This explains some of the problems you mentioned. We may therefore conclude what Jesus said is true in Matthew 13 that there is the outward appearance of the kingdom in which many are not saved but act as though they are (the tares), and the wheat (the saved). The tares look very much like the wheat. You would not be construed to be as the wheat for you clearly admit you refuse all to do with the church.
If there was one of those 9 commandments you said don't apply, then show it, don't just say it. For that is dumb. You will find that you lose against the 9 commandments which are moral in nature. Since you say you are moral but contradict the wholesomeness of the commandments, we have concluded then that you are falling short of the glory of God. There are lots of proofs like this we can observe which reveal by the Holy Spirit to talk a morality is not the same thing as true morality. The reason you make your own morality is because you love your sin too much which you incorporate into it as being moral, which of course it is not.
Spiritual reality shows us that you did not become a sinner, but were born into sin. Your parents were born into sin and they produce a sinner through the flesh. Sin leads to death, and it also leads to spiritual death, an eternal separation from God. Since you were made in God's image with a clear ability to know God created you, because you are an Adamic man, and see His mercy through Christ, who came to save you from your sins for forgiveness, you have no excuses.
Though not everyone is saved, Christianity is by far the biggest faith in the world today far surpassing your faith. Even though only a small percentage of said-to-be Christians are actually Christians, we see a truth in Christ that is unsurpassed: that is, Christ did not wrong and was put to death, which you do not stand up for. You really are in league with Satan attempting to murder the human race, wittingly or unwittingly, it makes no difference.
Knowing there is a morality on some level, know this morality extends to its depths all the way to the life of Christ and God uncreated. You are carried away with the world and your own version of morality, which is just a self-exaltation of self in your own ideology, which you are its only follower. The ultimate meaning of this self-centeredness is an independency and disobedience against God who created you, the same reason Lucifer was cast out of heaven with one third of the angels.
In a way you might say, there is nothing new under the sun. This problem of sin has been going on for quite some time, and God's redemptive design is in place, which began with the restoration of creation in the six summary days after God made earth desolate in Gen. 1.2 for the sins of earth's earliest ages.
The final restoration is when the millennial kingdom comes. At the end of that 1000 years, Satan will be loosed out for a little while to show even then, man had yet some hidden sin. He will be cast into hell along with souls such as yourself to be kept locked eternally away in your existence from God and His sons and daughters in the new city and new earth in which there will be no sin. What a glory to God this is!
That is that.
Troy
> The way we see it is, that we atheists with our positive philosophies of
> secular humanism and our naturalistic interpretation of the world are
> perfectly adequately equipped to deal with life. Don't forget there was a
> time when humans did not exist, God had not been thought up, Jesus and Mary
> were unknown, yet the world carried on and evolved. The ancient Egyptians
> knew nothing of Yahweh or Jesus but they built one of the worlds great
> civilisations,-it would probably still exist but for fanatical Christians
> and Moslems. We are not bad people,-we have a highly developed moral
> sense,-the only difference is we do not lay all the credit for it at the
> feet of Jesus, Mary et al. The burden of proof for their existence is upon
> believers; the Bible is just a book written by men,-a big inconsistent mixed
> up set of writings,-interesting, but not to be slavishly followed.. Most of
> the 10 commandments are irrelevent as they deal with the Israelites
> relationship with their tribal god; the others, do not steal, murder covet
> your neighbour's things etc are universal human values, developed by
> proto-humans (and higher animals) as a way of building a stable society in
> which everyone can be secure. You and I have similar basic human values,--we
> just think you have become carried away by your enthusiasm for what is
> basically a foreign alien middle-eastern religion which was originally
> imposed by Rome on its provinces, and enforced by means of terror by the
> Catholic, and later also Protestant churches.
Since with all this, your spirit is still unregenerate, you may be able to live in the world, but you do not possess authentic life, resurrection life. God in the eternity of the past who was revealed by the Holy Spirit was never thought up. The dust of creation was the work of Christ the Creator. Egyptians, prior to 6000 B.C. is what the Bible deems as the dust, in which such civilizations were without God-consciousness. They were utterly incapable of worshipping God of the Bible for God had not yet revealed Himself.
They did not have the capacity to know God of the Bible because they were still the formation of the dust to create the first Adamic man. Even before the Egyptians, before the earth was made desolate in Gen. 1.2 because of sins of the inhabitants of earth's earliest ages, there were also civilizations, but again, they were just considered the dust (Gen. 2.7) according to the Scriptures. In other words, you gain nothing from them for your spirit to be quickened with God's life. Naturally the dust formed into man's body and much that entailed this formation passed away, especially pre-endemic Egyptians and their pyramid obsessions. How mindless to say you wish this ideology remained!
Mary was a sinner, just like you and I. Christians do not see her as a sinless sacrifice. She was merely the abode God entered through to break into creation to show us how to live from birth to adulthood as well as to be Redeemer and Savior. Only Christ, being Creator, was the sinless sacrifice who could forgive sins. Since you have not come to the cross as a helpless sinner, you are unforgiven and hellbound. This is because you are not regenerated with new life and the Holy Spirit will not enter in your spirit where the evil spirit resides. You're still living in the old creation from the fall.
Since Christians do have the burden, and have proven the Scriptures flawless (and see the 4 Step Proof (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/perfectproof.htm)), now the burden is on you to find fault, which you have failed to do so. Remember, self-declarations don't count, you have to prove it!
The 10 commandments all remain except one. Only the ceremonial covenant of the sabbath is no longer kept since Christ came to fill up the law to give the new covenant. The other 9 are moral in nature, and the fact that you do not see their moral application, shows how dead your conscience is. For example, do not bear false witness is a sin to one with God's uncreated life, but not to you because your spirit is dead to God.
God of the Bible succeeds where all others fail. Israel was chosen as the first nation God revealed Himself too because they were finally willing to listen, when no others were. This was in part because they suffered greatly, enslaved for 400 years. It tends to have this effect.
We are not proto-humans, we are humans, made in God's image, with a spirit, soul and body. This remains forever, no matter how many marks of the beast you put in your system to alter your being. You agree with the commandments in one breath and then in another you disagree with them, you said. This is a sin. Be "not doubletongued" (1 Tim. 3.8) and stop pointing to self.
As the centuries followed, Rev. 2 & 3 predicted how the church (or more accurately the kingdom of heaven, its outward appearances or boundary) would become corrupted. This explains some of the problems you mentioned. We may therefore conclude what Jesus said is true in Matthew 13 that there is the outward appearance of the kingdom in which many are not saved but act as though they are (the tares), and the wheat (the saved). The tares look very much like the wheat. You would not be construed to be as the wheat for you clearly admit you refuse all to do with the church.
If there was one of those 9 commandments you said don't apply, then show it, don't just say it. For that is dumb. You will find that you lose against the 9 commandments which are moral in nature. Since you say you are moral but contradict the wholesomeness of the commandments, we have concluded then that you are falling short of the glory of God. There are lots of proofs like this we can observe which reveal by the Holy Spirit to talk a morality is not the same thing as true morality. The reason you make your own morality is because you love your sin too much which you incorporate into it as being moral, which of course it is not.
Spiritual reality shows us that you did not become a sinner, but were born into sin. Your parents were born into sin and they produce a sinner through the flesh. Sin leads to death, and it also leads to spiritual death, an eternal separation from God. Since you were made in God's image with a clear ability to know God created you, because you are an Adamic man, and see His mercy through Christ, who came to save you from your sins for forgiveness, you have no excuses.
Though not everyone is saved, Christianity is by far the biggest faith in the world today far surpassing your faith. Even though only a small percentage of said-to-be Christians are actually Christians, we see a truth in Christ that is unsurpassed: that is, Christ did not wrong and was put to death, which you do not stand up for. You really are in league with Satan attempting to murder the human race, wittingly or unwittingly, it makes no difference.
Knowing there is a morality on some level, know this morality extends to its depths all the way to the life of Christ and God uncreated. You are carried away with the world and your own version of morality, which is just a self-exaltation of self in your own ideology, which you are its only follower. The ultimate meaning of this self-centeredness is an independency and disobedience against God who created you, the same reason Lucifer was cast out of heaven with one third of the angels.
In a way you might say, there is nothing new under the sun. This problem of sin has been going on for quite some time, and God's redemptive design is in place, which began with the restoration of creation in the six summary days after God made earth desolate in Gen. 1.2 for the sins of earth's earliest ages.
The final restoration is when the millennial kingdom comes. At the end of that 1000 years, Satan will be loosed out for a little while to show even then, man had yet some hidden sin. He will be cast into hell along with souls such as yourself to be kept locked eternally away in your existence from God and His sons and daughters in the new city and new earth in which there will be no sin. What a glory to God this is!
That is that.
Troy