Churchwork
09-21-2006, 12:41 AM
The GD book I have is from CFP 1975
The Holy Spirit guides and directs us all - providing we walk in Him - and
just as Paul, Matthew, the writer of Hebrews and others reflect their own
personality and style of writing (or perhaps the amanuensis), so did
Watchman Nee. He reaches conclusions, which to my mind follow pathways I
did not recognize, but we both got to the same place - amazing.
On page 182 of my GD book I read " As regards the security of our
salvation - that is to say, we never will perish once we are saved - we can
find at least 12 different areas of evidence in the Scriptures". - He goes
on to list 12 assurance verses. After the first he states "Our salvation is
forever secured in the unchangeable will of God" Is this not unconditional
eternal salvation and an outworking of the Calvinist tulip doctrines?
Let us be careful to be sure what you claim of yourself is true or not.
Watchman Nee did not say the salvation was unconditional, but that once entering into new life, "we will never perish". The growth in that life is conditional to overcometh (many different kinds of salvation, pp. 182-190) and entrance into that life is conditional. This is why osas arminian is correct by saying conditional election and calvinism is false when it teaches unconditional election. So calvinists say they were saved before they could believe showing they believe in unconditional election when God saves by way of conditional election. This is wonderful to be able to discern.
So we see the salvation as shown by osas arminian is eternal life which can never be relinquished. But the false teaching of calvinism in claiming eternal life can never be relinquished is derived differently. It is produced by saving the person first before they can believe, while in osas arminian, salvation follows free-choice by faith to be justified by faith.
What, pray tell, is osas? - once saved, always saved? If so, I am puzzled,
Troy, as I thought osas was a strong Calvinist teaching. Most Arminiasts
believe when you sin you may be lost and have to be saved all over again -
no?
Just like all calvinists are wrong, all non-OSAS arminiasts are wrong. Lots of wrong people. Who was right?
Jacob Arminius himself was OSAS, for he only said it seems like some verses indicate loss of eternal life. What he may not have realized is those verses pertain to loss of rewards for the millennium. I do like his humble explanation, in that he did not overassume by saying "which seem..." http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911&highlight=Arminius
Therefore, you can not say hyper arminian is necessarily non-OSAS. Just say the non-OSAS is false and is held by the Roman, Eastern and Methodist denoms and a great deal many others.
I wholeheartedly agree that "All forms of Calvinism are false." Hyper
arminian believe "once lost always lost" - a corruption of Heb 6:4-6.
"God's way of salvation is to predestinate by foreknowing our free-choice:
a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for
preservation of the saints." This is hurting an old man's head and will
have to be digested until we converse again.
Come on back - In Christ.
In His Name,
Dave
Hyper arminian does not believe non-OSAS. That is a misnomer. Non-OSAS is a corruption of Heb. 6. And so would be "once-lost-always-lost". Nobody is always lost, for nobody can blaspheme the Holy Spirit in our day and age. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/1Tim4.htm
Do me a favor, don't say "Come on back - Christ" for that is disrespectful to people as though they are not walking the walk already. It is also overassuming on your part and puffs up your self to exalt yourself above others. It is a condescension. Let it go. I'd give you an Infraction if you were a member.
p.s. What do Arminian Remonstrants believe?
that the divine decree of predestination is conditional, not absolute; (Conditional Election)
that the Atonement is in intention universal; (Unlimited Atonement)
that man cannot of himself exercise a saving faith; (God saves, but man chooses and God longs for man to choose: free-choice; as distinguished from God saving the person first like a robot so that then man can believe as taught by Satan's calvinism)
that though the grace of God is a necessary condition of human effort it does not act irresistibly in man and (Resistible Grace)
that believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace. (Eternal Preservation of the Saints, OSAS)
The Holy Spirit guides and directs us all - providing we walk in Him - and
just as Paul, Matthew, the writer of Hebrews and others reflect their own
personality and style of writing (or perhaps the amanuensis), so did
Watchman Nee. He reaches conclusions, which to my mind follow pathways I
did not recognize, but we both got to the same place - amazing.
On page 182 of my GD book I read " As regards the security of our
salvation - that is to say, we never will perish once we are saved - we can
find at least 12 different areas of evidence in the Scriptures". - He goes
on to list 12 assurance verses. After the first he states "Our salvation is
forever secured in the unchangeable will of God" Is this not unconditional
eternal salvation and an outworking of the Calvinist tulip doctrines?
Let us be careful to be sure what you claim of yourself is true or not.
Watchman Nee did not say the salvation was unconditional, but that once entering into new life, "we will never perish". The growth in that life is conditional to overcometh (many different kinds of salvation, pp. 182-190) and entrance into that life is conditional. This is why osas arminian is correct by saying conditional election and calvinism is false when it teaches unconditional election. So calvinists say they were saved before they could believe showing they believe in unconditional election when God saves by way of conditional election. This is wonderful to be able to discern.
So we see the salvation as shown by osas arminian is eternal life which can never be relinquished. But the false teaching of calvinism in claiming eternal life can never be relinquished is derived differently. It is produced by saving the person first before they can believe, while in osas arminian, salvation follows free-choice by faith to be justified by faith.
What, pray tell, is osas? - once saved, always saved? If so, I am puzzled,
Troy, as I thought osas was a strong Calvinist teaching. Most Arminiasts
believe when you sin you may be lost and have to be saved all over again -
no?
Just like all calvinists are wrong, all non-OSAS arminiasts are wrong. Lots of wrong people. Who was right?
Jacob Arminius himself was OSAS, for he only said it seems like some verses indicate loss of eternal life. What he may not have realized is those verses pertain to loss of rewards for the millennium. I do like his humble explanation, in that he did not overassume by saying "which seem..." http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911&highlight=Arminius
Therefore, you can not say hyper arminian is necessarily non-OSAS. Just say the non-OSAS is false and is held by the Roman, Eastern and Methodist denoms and a great deal many others.
I wholeheartedly agree that "All forms of Calvinism are false." Hyper
arminian believe "once lost always lost" - a corruption of Heb 6:4-6.
"God's way of salvation is to predestinate by foreknowing our free-choice:
a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for
preservation of the saints." This is hurting an old man's head and will
have to be digested until we converse again.
Come on back - In Christ.
In His Name,
Dave
Hyper arminian does not believe non-OSAS. That is a misnomer. Non-OSAS is a corruption of Heb. 6. And so would be "once-lost-always-lost". Nobody is always lost, for nobody can blaspheme the Holy Spirit in our day and age. http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/1Tim4.htm
Do me a favor, don't say "Come on back - Christ" for that is disrespectful to people as though they are not walking the walk already. It is also overassuming on your part and puffs up your self to exalt yourself above others. It is a condescension. Let it go. I'd give you an Infraction if you were a member.
p.s. What do Arminian Remonstrants believe?
that the divine decree of predestination is conditional, not absolute; (Conditional Election)
that the Atonement is in intention universal; (Unlimited Atonement)
that man cannot of himself exercise a saving faith; (God saves, but man chooses and God longs for man to choose: free-choice; as distinguished from God saving the person first like a robot so that then man can believe as taught by Satan's calvinism)
that though the grace of God is a necessary condition of human effort it does not act irresistibly in man and (Resistible Grace)
that believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace. (Eternal Preservation of the Saints, OSAS)