Was George Bush Right to Go to Iraq?

[Churchwork]

Yes!

Having no wallet nor staff while preaching to the house of Israel has its time limit.

Luk 22:35 And he said to them, "When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing."
Luk 22:36 He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, 'And he was reckoned with transgressors'; for what is written about me has its fulfilment."
Luk 22:38 And they said, "Look, Lord, here are two swords." And he said to them, "It is enough."

[Alexis Machine]

Bush was horribly, horribly wrong to go to Iraq. First it was Afghanistan, and then he was proved wrong. Iraq was proven to have no WMDs, but he's staying to "save face". Now it's solely a matter of religion, and religion should not be intertwined with politics, as it will undoubtedly cause dissension among the public. That imbecile Bush is sending people to die to feed his overly-inflated ego.

[Churchwork]

Alexis,

Good thing self-declarations are of no value, since they are not founded on reality. Why not determine a basis for your beliefs instead of using yourself as the center of your argument? Bush was right to stop Iraq from increasing its borders, for Saddam is an evil man who gases millions of his own people and had no right to invade Kuwait. There have been books written how Saddam moved his weapons of mass destruction out of Iraq long beforehand so none could be found. There is documentation that proves those weapons are in Syria. Now the problem is th president of Iran saying the holocaust never happened and his plan is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. His quest for a nuclear bomb would do that. This is sheer evil.

Then came the necessity of Afghanistan, to deal with them in some way. However, Bush though trying to do the right thing, appears to be losing the battle and Israel seems to be struggling too. He will be remembered for his courage to do the right thing and set an example that Islam can't keep blowing people and things up because they are jealous of the civilized nations with democracies. During end-times, USA will not be a world power, however. All these things I have told you are part of agreeing with Scripture.

I would not say Bush is proven wrong, though his tax policies for the rich are definitely wrong. The luxury of engaging the enemy is that at any time you can pull out when you realize you can't win the battle. This is still an option. Should USA get out of Iraq and Afghanistan? I think Bush sees oil shortages and prices as a real threat, so in order to get a piece of the pie, USA needs a foothold in some oil producing countries that themselves are evil nations worshiping a false god that calls Jesus a liar. However, I think it will all backfire in the end, and that leads to USA's fall under its financial burden and not a major player in end-times.

I don't think it is wrong for Bush to have gone into Iraq or Afghanistan, but I do think it would be wrong to stay there longer than need be. Islam keeps trying to hurt USA and this last episode with liquid explosives, planning to high-jack as many as ten planes, shows they will not let up until they are dealt with forcefully, even the very Word of God. This is the evil in the world of Islam, their bad ethics. This is Islam's evil weapon without conscience: suicide mass-murderers.

I honestly don't know if USA should stay in Iraq and Afghanistan now or get out in a couple of years, but I do know they were right to go in at least for some time period to make a statement. On the one had there is a very valid reason to stay; on the other hand it is very costly, but it may turn out to be a necessary cost. We must stand against evil insurgency. I don't think Bush is staying to save face. I think he is trying to make the best decision he knows how possible, and it is a very difficult decision.

Bush's decision to remain in Iraq and Afghanistan up to now is based on his decision to do the right thing, and I would have done the same if I was the President of the USA. This is the responsible action to take of leader of a country in that situation in which USA is the leading military power in the world.

Since everyone has a religion, all decisions are based on one's religion. Religion is inescapably intertwined with politics, for everyone in politics has some faith or another. However the Word of God says not to marry politics and Christianity, to keep the separate because the nations don't understand God's ways. Not until Christ returns will His theocracy take hold in which He will reign over the nations with an iron rod with his overcomer believers.

The cause of dissension is one's beliefs and what one worships which is their religion. Your religion is to call Jesus a liar (answering "No" to the Trinity) and so you live your life on that basis, which will have eternal consequences to you.

The dissension arises because of not having Jesus as our Lord and Savior and not walking therein taking up our crosses to bear, but worshiping something else, thus exalting that something else above God and degrading your conscience further. Is this not your plight?

You can't get rid of religion, for we all need religion. If there is not religion-that is, no valuing something-then you will die. You value reviling Jesus. Even so, you will die because of this, but temporarily your hostility sustains you as it drives you for the Antichrist. This problem will be dealt with all in good time.

As far as wars go historically, percentage wise very few people have died in this war in Iraq to date. It only seems like such a great amount in your personal limited experience.

[Alexis Machine]

Saddam is out of power, and has been so for years, and we're still unnecessarily there. It's come to the point where we're no longer trying to free Iraq; we're imposing out belief system on them instead. They don't want us there, and most of us don't want us there. Bush is only keeping us there for his own stubborn selfish reasons. It's coming to the point where it's all about oil (or have you not noticed gas costing above three dollars per gallon?).

And if the weapons are in Syria, then why in god's name have we not gone to Syria? Why are we wasting time, money (one trillion dollars, to be exact), and lives in Iraq?

You say that pulling out is an option. Technically the option exists. But Bush will not use it. Ever. We will have to wait two years until someone with a brain runs the country and gets us out of there before we lose all of our money and oil, and become a lap dog for the Middle East. This isn't about religion; it's about the survival of the US.

And note that all Islam is not evil; you are talking about radical extremists. Pretty much any religion, including Christianity, has its own set of psychos. Atheism too, in fact. People are forgetting the meaning of their own religion and are killing the "unholy". Remember Timothy McVeigh, for example?

As for being wrong to outlive our welcome in Iraq, we've been there for years now. Years. This is making the United States the laughingstock of the entire planet. British people think we're retards (except Tony Blair), most Americans think America is retarded (except Bush and his cabinet), and most of Japan thinks Americans are the stupidest things to walk on two legs (except for THEIR prime minister). We don't have any allies in this war, with the possible exception of Israel, who is currently too busy fighting Lebanon to care. We have been in Iraq for far too long. They don't want a democracy? Who cares? China seems to be doing fine, and it's Communist. What, are we going to invade them next? The only countries we should concern ourselves with now are Syria and North Korea. But Bush is too stupid to realize this.

And surely you must be joking. We should be staying in Iraq to stop the evil insurgency? You DO realize that there is literal genoice occuring in northern Africa, do you not? How come we don't care about them? Here's a hint. They didn't interact with us first. That's Bush's policy. Let the entire world go to hell in a handbasket, but if some extremist affiliated with the Taliban, and not even a particular country, attacks us, then we close our eyes and run around with our arms flailing. I again stress that we are doing literally nothing to stop the genocide in Africa. Surely you believe that mass killing is more sinful than what is occurring in Iraq (a couple soldiers firing at us because they want us to stop screwing up their lives).

Responsible action to take? How about "Yeah, we stopped Saddam and started setting you guys up again. How about we leave before we force a democracy on everyone, whether they like it or not, and go to some real good, like preventing thousands of people from dying in Africa." Oh wait, we don't care about Africa do we? Because they never offered us money or declared war on us. That's how Bush rolls: greed, ignorance and utter stupidity.

I never said Jesus was a liar. I just said I don't believe in the trinity (father and son at the same time). That means he got Mary pregnant in order to conceive himself.

I'd also like to point out that being atheist, I have no religion. And before you say it, no, I do not worship Satan, because not only do I not believe he exists, but atheists don't worship supernatural beings. Not even evil ones.

And what do I care what god other people worship? If it makes them happy, then it's fine and dandy. Unless you're suggesting that the literal best person in the world, who has never, EVER sinned, will endure unbearable pain for trillions and trillions of years because he didn't believe that a dead guy came back to life. And don't forget that other religions swear that they are right, and they have their own set of holy books to "prove it". At the very most, one religion is right. That means that if you're right, then the Jews, Muslims, and Hindus are wrong. Then again, the Jews could be right and you wrong. Or even the Hindus could be right. No one, and I mean NO ONE has any proof that their religion is the correct one. And yes, this includes atheists. You can't prove a negative, so even atheists can't prove they're right. And please don't respond with (but Jesus told us himself) or something like that. Pretty much every religion in existence has had their own god or gods personally talk to their followers, and has their own set of scripture to back them up. And being belligerent does not make you any more right than anyone else.

We need religion? Bush cut funding to stem cell research. Religion is literally preventing scientific human advancement. And Bush is also attempting to ban gay marriage? Who cares if two men kiss? What, will they have sex? Fine. Fewer babies for us. We're getting overpopulated as it is.

Percentage-wise? Statistics can be skewed in any manner you wish. Let's make something up and say that twelve billion Americans died in World War 1. Now let's say that 12 MILLION died in Iraq. That's only 1%, so it's utterly inconsequential, right? Go ahead and ask dead soldiers' families about their deceased sons and daughters. Try consoling them with the fact that statistically, it isn't so bad.

You sit there thinking that everything's about number crunching, when ironically YOU are the one without personal experience. I can nearly guarantee that if you had a loved one who died in Iraq, you'd be the first person at an anti-war protest. It's all about whether the war touches you or not. Though personally, I can't see how you haven't already been touched by the previously mentioned high gas prices. The United States has pissed off the entire Middle East, and generally bothered the rest of world with its arrogant, overbearing attitude.

Bush may have been right to go to Iraq, but everything he's done since then has been a catastrophe. When he leaves office, Bush may literally be considered the single worst president the United States has ever had to suffer through, and that includes Warren Harding.

This post is kind of long-winded, and I apologize for that. If you'd like, we could make it easier by conversing on AIM. My screenname is Valgaav19, and I tend to be on past 11:00 Eastern Time. Hope to see you there!

[Churchwork]

Alexis,

Why say we are still unnecessarily there? Hasn't NATO entered into Iraq as well? Are they also unnecessarily there? Some in Iraq want us there because they don't want another evil dictatorship which will probably happen if a peace keeping force does not remain to help build the Iraqi police. It may be about oil as well, but that does not discount the need to eradicate the evil insurgency.

Politically, it is not time to enter Syria. There is only so much the world can handle. Lebanon and Hezbollah, Iraq and Afghanistan need to be taken care of first, then Syria and Iran. All in due time. Survival of the USA is important. Should USA cease to exist as a nation while it is being terrorized every day? Would you let the terrorists win and be forced to worship in Mosque to worship Satan-Allah? Bush seems to have been prudent to stay in as long as he has.

Underlying the evil of all Islam is the belief that Jesus is a liar when Jesus said He is God. Radical elements or not, this is still a sin to revile your creator.

Most people are thankful to what USA has done, for most other nations would not have the courage to do it. China is not doing fine as a communist country, for the evil center of its dictatorship is still not for the people. You left out Iran, the nation that wants a nuclear weapon and wants to remove Israel from the face of the earth and said the holocaust never happened. That same holocaust was committed by the same god you share with Hitler. Is there anything more stupid?

USA can't do everything. They can only do what they can do to improve the world. And that includes democratizing Iraq and Afghanistan. This battle in their countries will not end until those two nations regain control in a democracy. Islam are the peoples that attacked USA soil, not northern Africa. You ask too much of USA; they can't do everything. No nation is is that powerful. My view is other nations should get more involved in helping northern Africa instead of being USA bashers. That accomplishes nothing.


I never said Jesus was a liar. I just said I don't believe in the trinity (father and son at the same time). That means he got Mary pregnant in order to conceive himself.
Jesus said He is God, so whether He is or not, you are still calling Him a liar, saying He is not. Jesus is not the Father, but the Son and the Bible clearly shows us God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit. You would also being calling His disciples liars who recorded this truth. You would also be calling the prophets of the Old Testament liars for they reveal the same that God the Son would come to take our sins upon Himself. You don't believe for the same reason Eve did not trust God and listened to the serpent. It's your free-will to do so. It is disobedience and independency from your creator. And so the 2nd Person broke into creation through Mary. Only God could do this and no other.

So since you don't worship God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, you worship Satan, for there is not a third choice. Even in worshiping self, you are still worshiping Satan.

In being an atheist, your religion is atheism, that which you place above God and the idea that things in nature happen all by themselves. This is not reality. Since nothing in nature happens all by itself, the uncreated must have created, and comparing Christ, you know God of the Bible did it.

In your worshiping Satan, you don't have to accept the supernatural to worship him. All you need to do to worship Satan is call Jesus a liar as you have done, for this idea is brought in by Satan and accepted by men going to hell.

Only in Christianity does God break into creation to atone for sins. Sin leads to death and the second death. Such other books of other gods only shows us their weakness in their gods by the simple rule of comparison. In your case, you will be in hell soon. God describes it as fiery and so forth because He is trying to do everything righteously possible to convince you not to go there, but still you want to go there. So you shall. The essence of hell is that it is an eternal separation from God forever because that is what you want.

Only Christianity proves to be the truth, for only in Christianity does God break into creation to save souls. Only this God is loving enough to do so to give up of Himself to save you from certain death. Hinduism says you will come back as a chicken if you don't improve yourself. This means they get never ending chances to sin, always getting another chance. Islam comes along six and a half centuries later and says the Bible is a lie and Jesus is a liar. They have no credibility, since the eyewitness accounts are already recorded, in agreement and in harmony.

Judaism is wrong for it calls Jesus a liar too. There is no greater sin. Judaized Christianity is also wrong which is done in several ways, e.g. Roman Church's popery high priest. It is even paganized with a sinless Mary. There is no man, not a one, who is sinless except that man who is also God.

This proof of God, that nothing in nature happens all by itself, is not proving a negative, but a positive. Positively, we see trillions of examples of causes and effects, not one instance of or reason to believe things happen all by themselves.

Since you can't prove atheism to be right, why are you an atheist? Why be so overassuming? Where is the humility in that? Why be belligerent about it? Since we know through the mystery of creation that nothing can happen all by itself, we know God did it. But who is God? By comparison, only Christ prevails.

The Holy Spirit has revealed to me in no uncertain terms that the reason you believe in atheism is because you like being a bad person and don't mind being intellectually dishonest about it. My advice to you is to be honest with yourself. Accept that you want hell in calling Jesus a liar who died for you, and still you call Him a liar. Only Jesus fulfilled those 62 prophecies of which the probability is less than 1 in a trillion to the umpteenth power.

Christian religion is moving science at the appropriate speed. Bad religion move science faster than it ought to move (or slower like in Islam or African countries because they are so busy killing each other) and thus creating evil uses that can not be controlled.

In the Bible, homosexual cities were burned to the ground. I don't think Bush is out of place to prevent equal financial rights from tax payers in marriage for the sin of homosexuality. When a nation approves of homosexuality that is its downfall. It is a sign of its evil conscience. Understand why Bush is reviled so much. Even though he may not be saved, he is projected to be a Christian, and for this the Bible says many will increase in their hatred against the kingdom of heaven.

The fact remains, on a per capita basis, there has been less deaths in this war. This is an absolute and objective fact. No death is acceptable, but this fact is true.

Since I do not live in my emotion, even if I had lost loved ones in a war, if the war was necessary, I would not stop it. If I was a Jew and lost 10 Jewish relatives in WWII, would I stop the war to stop Hitler? Of course not.

There are high oil prices. Yes! The reason people hate the leading nation is as it always has been-because it is if nothing else playing devil's advocate. USA could be doing the right thing and still people revile, because of jealousy. There are some popular writers like that who are obsessed USA bashers inordinately. The middle east is pissed off as they are always pissed off. They are a violent people, what the Bible terms "wild men". At the end of the day, they are jealousy of those with wealth and as we have seen, instead of being responsible and working hard for a living, they would rather be suicide mass-murderers, training their children to be this way with repetitive mind-droning mantra. There is no justification for the destruction of the twin towers which is the number 11 symbolized in the Koran on U.S. soil.

It is a difficult situation in Iraq, so Bush has done all he can do. Yes, he may need to have sent more troops, but on the other hand it is financially a burden. Since you don't provide yourself a better solution, you are just blamer, all talk, no action. Every word you speak is to revile God and God's children whether you realize it or not. That's your choice. God won't force you to believe in Him, but the day that you see Him at the Great White Throne, He will judge you, and you won't respond, because you will know you truly belong in Hell.

Try not to be so long-winded. I prefer to discuss here as a public record, but if you would like to quickly chat, try Biblocality Chat (http://biblocality.com/chat/) and listen to Christian music to soften up that stony heart of yours.

[Alexis Machine]

NATO can do what it wants. The US should not be there. As for the evil insurgency, it may not be fully eradicated, but hey, we still have crime in our own country. How come we're not cracking down on that? We're only at Iraq for ratings at this point.

You are correct. The survival of the US is important. Which means we should leave.

Satan-Allah? Are you psychotic? You do realize that Islam is pretty much Christianity with a different name, right? Which means that God is Allah, and Satan's still a bad guy, right? And that the basic differences in Christianity and Islam are its followers, and not the religions themselves, right?

And quick question. How come Christianity is not evil for not believing in the prophet Mohammed? Note that Islam can say the same things about Christianity that you say about Islam. And no one can prove themselves to be correct, so it's just circular pointlessness. Believe what you want, but don't be a jerk to others.

I had neglected to mention Iran; you are perfectly correct in that manner. Iran is far more dangerous than Iraq at this point, as well. We should deal with it immediately.

Oh, and as for the Holocaust, it was caused by Hitler and the Nazis. And if there truly is only one god, then he/she/it is responsible for allowing it to happen. Being an atheist, I like to think that humans did what humans did.

You are correct in that the US cannot do everything, but I'm not asking too much of it, in my opinion. Just the opposite. I'm asking it to LEAVE the Middle East to help out the Africans. But seriously, I must admit that no other country seems to be doing anything either.

Of course Jesus is the son and not the father, but you always insist that there is only one god, and that the three members of the trinity are aspects of one being. So technically, the son IS the father. And you are right in that I am kind of calling him a liar. The thing is, if he's lying, then I'm correct in my call.

"And so the 2nd Person broke into creation through Mary. Only God could do this and no other."

You are correct. But the thing is, I doubt that that event occurred in the first place.

"So since you don't worship God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, you worship Satan, for there is not a third choice. Even in worshiping self, you are still worshiping Satan."

Read more carefully next time. I worship nothing. NOTHING. That means no Satan, and even no self. I. Do. Not. Worship. I don't BELIEVE in Satan, so why would I waste my time kneeling to nothing? I prefer to live my life, thank you.

"In being an atheist, your religion is atheism, that which you place above God and the idea that things in nature happen all by themselves. This is not reality. Since nothing in nature happens all by itself, the uncreated must have created, and comparing Christ, you know God of the Bible did it."

Two points. Firstly, atheism is not a religion. It is lack of religion. Secondly, it is true that nothing happens by itself, but just because you can't see the cause doesn't mean it MUST have been god. That would mean that if there was a murder and the culprit can't be identified, then god must have killed the victim.

"All you need to do to worship Satan is call Jesus a liar as you have done, for this idea is brought in by Satan and accepted by men going to hell."

Contrariwise, doesn't that mean that claiming Satan doesn't exist would be a form of worshipping Jesus? Looks like we're at a stalemate. Now, for the love of god, don't make things one-sided without even considering observing the other side.

"In your case, you will be in hell soon. God describes it as fiery and so forth because He is trying to do everything righteously possible to convince you not to go there, but still you want to go there. So you shall. The essence of hell is that it is an eternal separation from God forever because that is what you want."

Three things. Firstly, I don't believe in hell, so I don't care. Secondly, what kind of retard would WANT to go to hell? And thirdly, you're not being a very good Christian. Shouldn't you be trying to help me, rather than preach that I'm going to hell?

"Only Christianity proves to be the truth, for only in Christianity does God break into creation to save souls."

That's wrong on so many levels. Not only is there no proof of any of that, but I don't even believe in souls, so even THAT point is moot.

"Hinduism says you will come back as a chicken if you don't improve yourself."

God says you'll suffer forever if you don't improve yourself. Hinduism at least lets you rise in caste after living your life as a chicken.

"Islam comes along six and a half centuries later and says the Bible is a lie and Jesus is a liar. They have no credibility, since the eyewitness accounts are already recorded, in agreement and in harmony."

Christianity came far after Pagan religions. Christians persecuted and killed Pagans, and actually had the nerve to steal their material.

"Judaism is wrong for it calls Jesus a liar too."

Funny story. Not only did Judaism come first, but Jesus WAS Jewish. In calling Jews wrong, you're calling Jesus wrong. I DARE you to come up with a response to that.

"There is no greater sin."

I dunno, murder sounds pretty bad. How about the people that crucified Jesus and killed him? You're calling modern-day Jews worse than that, just because they stick to worshipping the original god and didn't change their story?

"Judaized Christianity is also wrong which is done in several ways, e.g. Roman Church's popery high priest."

Well, you got me there.

"Positively, we see trillions of examples of causes and effects, not one instance of or reason to believe things happen all by themselves."

Yeah. Too bad the causes aren't god. A vase shattering? That's because someone pushed it off the table.

" Since you can't prove atheism to be right, why are you an atheist?"

Since you can't prove Christianity to be right, why are you Christian? Christianity is faith-based, you know. And don't say "the word of god". There's no actual proof that that's real. It's amusing to read, but that doesn't make it true.

"But who is God?"

God is an ancient excuse to explain why seemingly unexplainable things happened. Lightning strikes a forest and causes a fire. Wouldn't that seem a bit magical to people millenia ago? Well, those people sure didn't do it, so they say that a higher being did.

"Only Jesus fulfilled those 62 prophecies of which the probability is less than 1 in a trillion to the umpteenth power."

It's pretty easy to do stuff and make prophecies later. For example, I prophecize that I will make this post.

"In the Bible, homosexual cities were burned to the ground."

In the bible, people were stoned to death for working on Saturday. They were KILLED. Think about that, genius.

"When a nation approves of homosexuality that is its downfall."

That right? Why stop there? Why not disapprove of black people, or democrats? My god, you are one bigoted, bigoted person. You're not even a real Christian, are you? Because real Christians, according to Jesus himself, should "love thy neighbor". You seem to hate everyone who is not 100% like you.

"If I was a Jew and lost 10 Jewish relatives in WWII, would I stop the war to stop Hitler? Of course not."

No, but you'd want to. For example, you don't see me going to the White House and stopping the war. But I'd like for the war to end, thank you very much.

"The middle east is pissed off as they are always pissed off. They are a violent people, what the Bible terms "wild men". At the end of the day, they are jealousy of those with wealth and as we have seen, instead of being responsible and working hard for a living, they would rather be suicide mass-murderers, training their children to be this way with repetitive mind-droning mantra."

You know what? For once, I agree perfectly. Note that it's not EVERYONE in the Middle East; just a lot.

"Since you don't provide yourself a better solution, you are just blamer, all talk, no action."

I DO have a better solution. You know, the one I said seventeen-thousand times already. LEAVE.

"Every word you speak is to revile God and God's children whether you realize it or not."

I'm eating salted peanuts right now. They are delicious. According to you, those two previous sentences revile god. You're being such an accuser. You know what's even more important than Love Thy Neighbor? Judge not, lest you be judged. You are judging the **** out of me. Back off, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou.

As for music, I prefer anime and videogame soundtracks. I'll enjoy hearing you say how affiliated with Satan THOSE are.

[Churchwork]

Alexis,

The US should be in Iraq as should NATO, which is why they are both there, for the time being. US is not there for ratings, but because the American people are concerned Islam is a growing threat which fosters evil regimes. If US leaves it may show those hostile to USA they can do anything they like. For example Hezbollah killed over 200 US soldiers in Lebanon when they bombed their station. USA did nothing. Israel walked out of Lebanon in 2000, and looked what happens. For 6 years Hezbollah has been amassing an arsenal. Your way doesn't work. It has been shown time and time again in history when appeasing evil regimes. This is why when Jesus returns He is going to reign with an "iron rod" with His overcomer believers. Islam is quite crazy you know. Mohammad taught that it was not Jesus who died on the cross, but Judas, for they said Judas looked like Jesus. There is no reasoning with such insanity, rewriting the events of Christ's crucifixion 600 years later in the Koran.

The name Allah is derived from the Hebrew Chaldea word Halal which is the NAME OF SATAN in the scriptures in Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (HALAL) , son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

You do realize Allah is Satan don't you, for it explicitly says in the Koran that Jesus was not God even though Jesus said He Himself was God. There is no greater sin than calling Jesus a liar.

You are getting crass, and asking people if they are psychotic and jerk is violating the rules of the forum. See Rule (i) in the 3 Simple Rules (http://biblocality.com/forums/rules.php#rules) and (3) in Board Etiquette. In other words, since you are not in the truth, you need to be extra careful because you are living a lie, calling Jesus a liar without justification for doing so. This causes you to have this massive gaping contradiction between the Koran and the Bible which you do overlook.

You don't come 600 years later to rewrite the Bible when it is already established by 40 writers at the time of the events and in agreement over 1500 years. That is just intellectually dishonest and racist of Islam, for as you know there is almost no white people in Islam. For Islam it really is just about their racism against white people, and Jesus wasn't even white, but they perceive him to be only because he was Jewish born. Don't shut your mind down to this fact and these very glaring differences.

The OT predicted the coming Messiah as a sacrifice for sins (Is. 53). Mohammad rejects this OT truth which the NT proves and the OT proves. Why would you expect those in the truth then to accept some guy in a cave creating a new version of the Bible like the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses? This is the commonality of cults, is they all start with some man or woman in a cave with new revelation that alters the original. Silly.

Islam can't say the same thing about Christianity as Christianity says about Islam, since Islam just has one guy in a cave, whereas Christianity has 1500 years and 40 writers in agreement about Christ.

You're just being a jerk, using your own words, and belligerent because you don't have the love of the Lord in your life, and presume you never will. That is your choice.

Christianity is fully substantiated by eyewitness accounts and excellent documentation. For example, there are 129 facts in 45 earliest documents. 24 of them talk about His resurrection. 17 of them are non-Christian. 12 of those 17 non-Christian documents refer to His death on the cross and 7 refer to Him as allegedly being God. This information is in The Case for the Resurrection by Gary Habermas, the leading scholar in the world on the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Before the UN can deal with Iran, first the deadline must pass which is at the end of August. After that military action will undoubtedly have to take place at some point before the problem escalates. This will require a substantially larger military force of over a million soldiers from the UN. I believe it will happen. And the problem may get so bad that a preemptive nuclear attack on Iran may be needed. This may be considered feasible because the nuclear fallout will mostly be isolated to Iran, being a very large country. Since the president of Iran says He wants to annihilate Israel and says the holocaust never happened; therefore, this preemptive action is something that will be considered before it is too late. In the end it will save many more lives like the two nuclear explosions on Japan.

God allowing sin to run its course and His righteousness, where goodness prevails is a glory to God. God does not make sinless robots. Man is the one who chose to sin in war, so it is man that will reap the consequences. Where God comes into prevail is seen against the Nazis and Islam, and after 2500 years, allowing Israel to return to the promised land showing us God keeps His promises. Praise the Lord! The course has been set afoot and you are losing.

USA has its hands tied in Iraq, and like you said, it has its own financial burdens and crime to deal with. You can't ask it to do everything, like going to Africa. The US federal government is in debt over 8 trillion dollars, and that is not counting states and municipalities. The debt/gdp ration in USA has never been as great as it is now. In fact it has never even been near to what it is now, over 300%. Like I said, there is only so much US can do.

Of course there is only one God. Only one God created, not two. How confusing if two created. That is illogical. Technically, the Son of God is not God the Father, because God's 3 Persons are not aspects of God, but actually 3 Persons in the Godhead. We are not describing traits of God when we say God's 3 Persons, but we are talking about His very being is 3 Persons. The soulical mind can not understand this. The spirit needs to be regenerated before it can receive this truth.

When you say "the son is the father," this is a heretical teaching called modalism.


And you are right in that I am kind of calling him a liar. The thing is, if he's lying, then I'm correct in my call.

Not "kind of". Really, you are really calling God a liar! And if you are incorrect, then you are going to hell, no question about it. The issue is, and remains, you have no reason to suspect Jesus lied to you, so why overassume? You have every reason to believe He told you the truth. Call this Satan's independency which the unsaved follow.

You know Jesus broke into creation, since Mary didn't have sex and because the life of Jesus is unparalleled. No man could be so perfect! So if there is such a man as perfect as this, He must be more than mere man and thus enter into creation through supernatural means. All men are born into sin.

Preferring to live your life is not mutually exclusive of Christians preferring to live their lives rather than someone else's. Thus, this does not distinguish you. What does distinguish you is that you do value something and that something you value is Satan by the fact that you call Jesus a liar who created you. By demanding God is a liar, you place self and the lie above Jesus. And the originator of this lie is Satan who was a most beautiful angel that wanted to self-exalt himself. In his footsteps you do follow unwittingly living a life of self for self rather than walking by the spirit in Christ after His will for your life. Be more careful when you respond to these things if only in your own mind. Don't just look on your surface understanding for remember, Adam fell, all men are born into sin, and thus your mind is corrupted by that fall and being born into sin. Naturally, you don't think too clearly.

Atheism is a religion. Religion is worship. And atheism is the worship of no God. The no-God idol is illogical given the evidence, since nothing in nature happens all by itself. Therefore the uncreated God created! You can continue to overlook this fact, but it does not change the reality of it.

Just because you can't see the cause of something, doesn't mean there is not a cause. And thus, there can not be an eternity of the past of causes and effects. Otherwise, you would have had an eternity to be perfected to be without sin, yet you still sin. Since you still sin, you know there was not an eternity of the past of causes and effects, that you were indeed created by God. That is, the Uncreated created. If the created could not have created, then you know it is the Uncreated.

Exponentially our conscience has been improving since the first God-conscious man. This shows it will not take another 6000 years before we who are saved will be sinlessly perfected.

In your example of a murder, and you know it is a murder, just because you can't find the culprit doesn't mean God did it because we know according to God's righteousness and holiness He does not murder people. But we do know God allowed it, since the created being was created to be given the free-will to sin.


doesn't that mean that claiming Satan doesn't exist would be a form of worshiping Jesus?
How so? What a silly statement. Since Jesus said Satan exists and tempted Him in the wilderness, then that would mean if you say Satan doesn't exist, it also means you are again calling Jesus a liar, your common theme. Hell is for you is it not? You see how easy it is to expose the holes in your unrighteous thoughts. Such a side-taking that you take blinds you from reasoning correctly. By already overassuming your position, truth is thrown out the window.

It doesn't matter if you don't believe in Hell. The fact remains you are made in God's image which means your spirit and soul are permanently existing. You shall be resurrected unto salvation or for hell. By not believing in consequences to sin, even an eternal separation from God, the net result is your sin increases or at the very best you remain in your good self, which as you know is corrupted by the fall and needs deliverance. It does not care for the leading of God's Holy Spirit in your spirit. Like you said you don't care about certain truths. You just like carrying on in self despite you sin nature. I love how God has a way to deal with just such people.

What kind of retard you ask would want to go to hell? You. The gospel I am giving to you freely is not exclusive of hell. The gospel of salvation and the kingdom of heaven is to let you know there is a hell, so that you may be redeemed by the cross if you receive Christ into your life. This is what a good Christian does as I have done for you whether you like it or not.

The soul is your mind, will and emotion. Why not believe you have a mind? Not believing this is the exact entry Satan needs to find a foothold in your mind to impress upon you his thoughts.

The proof that Jesus broke into creation from outside creation is evident by the fact of His sinlessness and His fulfilling 62 prophecies, which odds remain less than 1 in a trillion to the umpteenth power of achieving. As well, Jesus was raised from the dead on the 3rd day from the cross, seen many days thereafter by at least 11 different group sizes, one of which was over 500 people. And He was seen raptured to heaven as well by the disciples. This gives us reason that Mary did not lie when a spirit spoke to her about receiving the Son of God in her womb. Moreover, this fulfills the prophecy of the timing when it would occur. It is quite miraculous. Since Jesus proved He is God in every way possible, you know therefore, He had to break into creation since He is not a created being. He did not break into creation by two people having sex, but He put His own seed into Mary to be conceived. There is no other possibility logically speaking. Some of the prophecies are fulfilled in the timing and the place of His birth. This shows it occurred through God's providence and foreknowledge after 13.7 billion years. Since you can find no level of error in this assessment we can conclude you don't have any.

In Hinduism, there is really no consequences to sin. Some people want to come back as some animal creature. What God of the Bible saying is that some people simply don't want to be saved and have God as their authority, so since you choose to not want to be under your Creator, then there is just such a place for you where you can be in that condition forever. Sounds very reasonable. Similarly, people need to be kept in jail for the rest of their life because they are that bad a people. Why should it be any different for you? If Hell is good enough for Satan, then so shall it be most appropriate for you.

Christians stole not materials of pagans. God used what the Holy Spirit revealed to record history. Pagan traditions are shown to be faulty for they worshiped merely things like the sun or the hope for a better grain harvest and so forth, so they attribute different gods to these different desires of theirs. Even if such gods existed they would still be created gods and as such pagans would be worshiping gods above God. Also, you tried to confuse Christianity with Christendom. Christianity does not kill, but is Christ-like. All this killing you say Christianity does, wouldn't you say it is non-Christian since Christ did not kill? Your Bible talks about this by the way in Rev. 17, which is speaking about the sins of religious Rome which you know to be the Roman Catholic Church. In Rev. 14.8 it says she makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications. How powerful is the Word of God that it speaks against what many consider to be Christianity, yet it is not! Matthew 13 is powerful too because it says in the kingdom of heaven are many who appear to be saved but are not. They are the tares trying to look like the saved wheat. But God will bring His sickle to them when God deals with the nations at His return in Matt. 25.31-46. If you would like the best study materials and proofs of these truths, don't be afraid to ask. I will point you to exactly what you need to read that will be most beneficial.

Pagan religions came from the fall, and God's redemptive design in the 66 books of the Bible account for this. Good thing Israel got rid of some of those evil nations sacrificing their children in the fiery mouth of the god Molech that you seem to be defending.

So you know Christianity came before pagan religions since Christianity has a creator and necessarily that creator would predate the pagan religious ideas.


Not only did Judaism come first, but Jesus WAS Jewish. In calling Jews wrong, you're calling Jesus wrong. I DARE you to come up with a response to that.
Dare not. You are losing your cool. Judaism says Jesus is a liar. When Israel was under the old covenant it was not Judaism as we know today, for Israel, when it was walking in the will of God, at that time would have accepted Christ according to prophecies. Alas! Israel fell and did not accept Christ when He arrived with authority. Jesus was Jewish as was prophesied He would be. Remember what the Bible says, the true Jew is a the Christian and since Jesus was a true Jew, He brings us the veil that is rent for the Holy Spirit to indwell and where we first called Christians at Antioch. The 12 apostles are a remnant of Israel.

Why did people kill Jesus; why is murder bad? It is because of no greater sin than calling Jesus a liar. The OT says do not kill. Jesus says do not hate. It is because of your hatred, that killing arises. Israel doesn't worship the original God, for they reject their Savior who already came. The Pharisees changed faith that Israel was under, and Jesus spoke with them many times to prove this.

In your example of a vase being pushed off the table, who pushed it? A person pushed it. Who caused that person to push it? Whomever or whatever, there was a cause for that too. There is always a cause until you come to the causeless cause as proven by the fact that nothing happens all by itself and you have not been existing for eternity. Every time you speak, know that you fall short because you are selfish and self-centered, corrupted by your sin nature. Naturally you used your limited understanding to call Jesus a liar.

Since the 4 Step Proof for God (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/perfectproof.htm) fully proves God and only God of the Bible surpassed all with the Son and the Spirit for being God, what is the problem? The burden of the proof falls on you now since you could produce no counter argument. Round about talk about other things doesn't not help you.

The cause therefore must be God of the Bible that caused all the causes for God would be the source of all the causes having been able to be able to be effective.

Jesus is real, for He is documented by several of their experiences with Him and His resurrection. In the Guinness book of records, the lawyer who won the most court cases in a row (245) said that there is no better case he has ever seen than the case for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is good stuff! Something you have yet to overturn.

Christianity is based on faith and that faith is based on common observances to have the choice to receive redemption. Since we can all look up at the mountains and the stars to know God did it, no one has an excuse for rejecting God. Thus, the faith in Christ we who are saved have is substantiated, whereas your blind faith in atheism is unfounded. Therefore, the burden of the proof falls on you to show otherwise against the weight of the evidence.


God is an ancient excuse to explain why seemingly unexplainable things happened. Lightning strikes a forest and causes a fire. Wouldn't that seem a bit magical to people millenia ago? Well, those people sure didn't do it, so they say that a higher being did.
God is not an excuse to explain why seemingly unexplainable things happen, because whether they are explainable or not makes no difference. People long ago realized by the revelation of God that all things have a cause and effect and that nothing happens all by itself. Therefore, they knew the uncreated had to be the cause of the created. When comparing Christ you know Jesus to be the uncreated by what He did, what He said and what He is going to do. It is the humble who can admit this. It is proud man that can't look past his own biases and see these facts; and finds lame excuses like the one you just presented which is not the ultimate reason for believing in God.


It's pretty easy to do stuff and make prophecies later. For example, I prophecize that I will make this post.
For petty stuff sure, but not for things Jesus could have had no control over like the guards not breaking His legs or the time of His birth or various other aspects of His life which were out of His control.


In the bible, people were stoned to death for working on Saturday. They were KILLED. Think about that, genius.
It was a sin under the old covenant to take this day of rest and work on it. To show you what a genius you are try to understand this. God created and rested on the 7th day. He gives this day of rest only to the nation of Israel as a sign of covenant between them and God. Remember, this is God's redemptive design. All the nations would be blessed through Israel. If Israel falls, so falls the world. Because Israel was so greatly blessed, it's responsibility was that much more and they knew it. Thus, to reject God's law has dire consequences. It shows that they can't even do a simple thing like not work on Saturday. It shows no man can keep the law, only Jesus could. Through the law enters grace and the knowledge of the need of redemption. Wow! Amazing huh? Praise the Lord!


That right? Why stop there? Why not disapprove of black people, or democrats? My god, you are one bigoted, bigoted person. You're not even a real Christian, are you? Because real Christians, according to Jesus himself, should "love thy neighbor". You seem to hate everyone who is not 100% like you.
Why disapprove of black people? Is it a sin to be black? How absurd! Why accuse democrats? Is it a sin to be a democrat? Maybe it is, for you are affiliating with a party that is the cause of the problems. You are very bigoted. Did God create people to have sex with same sex or with opposite sex? There is only one Adam and one Eve which are united as one flesh. You know sickness enters the heart of the soul when they start to accuse of bigotry to defend homosexuality and the disturbing upbringing it causes children without a loving mother or a loving father. Such people are just too selfish to see this is wrong. It is a sexual perversion. Some are born with this sin, but that is no excuse to remain in this sin for through Christ it is easily overcome. My accuser accuses me of many things, but despite your reviling me, I do love you and pray that you one day receive Jesus Christ into your life. I hate sin, but I hate no one. Indeed, I am a real Christian. Sorry to burst your bubble.


"If I was a Jew and lost 10 Jewish relatives in WWII, would I stop the war to stop Hitler? Of course not."

No, but you'd want to. For example, you don't see me going to the White House and stopping the war. But I'd like for the war to end, thank you very much.
Of course I don't want war. But the war was necessary, otherwise we would all be Nazis today. War is needed sometimes. To not acknowledge this is to give into the very evil you claim is wrong. It's like if you had a child who you knew was being abused and you did nothing about it. You wouldn't do anything about it. This is your sin and is without love, but some point of pride of passivity.


Note that it's not EVERYONE in the Middle East; just a lot.
Surely, you didn't think I meant everyone was a suicide mass-murderer, otherwise there would be no one left in Islam.

:veryhappy:


I DO have a better solution. You know, the one I said seventeen-thousand times already. LEAVE.
This is not a better solution as proven by the fact they are still murdering people hand over fist with no regard for life and tried to send about 10 planes over the Atlantic to crash into USA nuclear power plants. Your problem is you conscience is seared and it is like appeasing to Hitler all over again, though taking another form. Did you know that Islam sided with Hitler in World War II? You think Hitler was bad. I think Islam is planning something far worse.


I'm eating salted peanuts right now. They are delicious. According to you, those two previous sentences revile god. You're being such an accuser. You know what's even more important than Love Thy Neighbor? Judge not, lest you be judged. You are judging the **** out of me. Back off, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou.
As you are eating those peanuts which are delicious, you are thinking about how you revile God and using food to justify it. How absurd! I am merely observing your behavior for you say Jesus is a liar and in vain talk about food in your reviling Jesus. There is nothing more important than love, for love does not judge. So you should not judge your creator by calling Him a liar or call people jerks and psychotic and retard or other names, for this is judgmental and not loving. It also shows your emotionalism. So you see you are being judged for your behavior. I do not judge you, for God judges you. Am I not merely observing your condition of separation from God with all your various hostilities? You are trying to be holier than thou with your pet teaching which time and again is proven false. Your profanity is a sin. You see now that which you judge by, you are being judged just as Matt. 7.1 says. You are a bad man, you are being judged for calling Jesus a liar, and Jesus said quite explicitly in John 3, "he that believeth not is condemned already" (v.18).

Why keep rejecting the evidence? Is it not because you know it is true but you don't care anyway? You like being selfish and you like calling your Creator a liar. You like your money that you worship and the world that it gives you and don't think your idols are too harmless. You are still in the old creation and have not yet entered the new creation. I am in the new creation, a child of God. This difference is everything!


As for music, I prefer anime and video game soundtracks. I'll enjoy hearing you say how affiliated with Satan THOSE are.
Your expectations and negative attitude as usual are wrong. I don't have anything against video games, anime and soundtracks. How do you feel since my response did not meet your expectations?

Your account is removed for your crassness and to help you peruse this information without reacting mentally. I thought you would best be helped not by your responding with the same regurgitated ideas, but by careful consideration of the facts and ultimately, to enter into co-death with Christ and receive redemption. Observe Board Etiquette #9 (http://biblocality.com/forums/rules.php#rules). You were removed for violating (i) in the 3 Simple Rules and #3, #6, #8, #9 and #10 in the board etiquette as noted in various places in this response. I did not remove your account because you are a dullard, which is selfish, or because you are a homosexual, which is a sin. If you are able to repent, you're welcome back.

[Churchwork]

The prophecy of the Holy Spirit about Islam (http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2761#post2761).

[Paoli]

Was George right or wrong to go into Iraq?
Of course he was right.

But these days, good is called evil, and evil is called good, just like the Bible predicted, and I'm talking about the 'church' here, not the world.

[ChristianSoldier]

Was George Bush Right to Go to Iraq?

Yes!

And we are also right to back Israel 100%.

God help us if we don't.

[Isaac]

Perhaps Bush WAS right to investigate Iraq, but at this point we've clearly worn out our welcome, and have proven that being there is a waste of time. Why we aren't dealing with Israel/Lebanon right now, God only knows.

[Faithful]

The way God operates is He punishes evil nations in due time. This is what is happening with all the killing and mayhem in Iraq incited by Islamic suicide mass-murderers and child sacrifices.

I would not be so quick to jump to the conclusion about the need or no need of USA to be in Iraq.

It is like servant who had received some money and squandered it. Now all will be taken away from him. After all is said and done, in a hundred years from now, the middle east will look much different to be sure as a consequence of what has begun today.

[bluethundr]

Let's get one thing straight. Iraq, however evil it may have been, was a SECULAR regime. It was the ONLY non-theocratic government in the Arab world. Sure, Saddam trotted out "Almighty Allah" whenever he felt he needed the support of the support of the Sunni (he was a Shi'a) Muslims.

But the Bath party was both Socialist, and again, secular. Did Saddam make overtures to Bin Laden? Quite possibly. But Bin Laden would never, never, never, never in a million years back the Socialist / Secular government of of Saddam. Al Qaeda considers Socialism and Secularism (as likely does the radical extremist Christian "soldiers" in this forum) to be evil.

So, how on EARTH was Iraq the right war? They had NO involvement in 9/11. If you wanted to go after those responsible, notice that the majority of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. The rest were from the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Lebanon.

The right war, in my opinion was Afghanistan. That's where the plot was hatched and masterminded, that's where the Taliban was based, that's where Bin Laden was. Now that we passed up our golden opportunity at Tora Bora with a botched military mission the bastard is holed up in the mountainous region of Waziristan (inside of Pakistan) and we very likely will never find him. Good going George!

Afghanistan was always undermanned and under-funded. If we had put the forces into Afghanistan that we put into Iraq, the Taliban would not, (as they are today) be poised to regain control of that lawless country.

Saddam was an evil man. But he did not attack us. We put a stop to his incursion into Kuwait (which, don't kid yourself, was for financial reasons) but Bush the senior did not push forward into Iraq for a reason: he realized it would become a quagmire which is exactly what happened.

Bin Laden is an evil man. We are right to bring him down, bring him to justice. But your arguments as to why the Islamic world hates us so much is specious. Jealousy? How simplistic! If only the world were that simple.

Bin Laden attacked us, not out of jealousy, but because we are occupying his 'holy land' (Saudi Arabia) with our military. To the Muslims, we are invaders and crusaders. Remember that in the Islamic world, the Crusades have never been forgiven.

The US is mystified that others can hate them so. But the US government supports regimes, such as Egypt that controls its Islamic population through rubber bullets, tear gas and water cannons. The US is seen by these people as the source of all of these arms that are used against them.

And who were we to go into Iraq anyway? What are we supposed to be? The cops of the world? If so, why are we not marching on ALL of the evil dictatorships of the world? Why have we not marched on North Korea? Oh that's right. They have nuclear weapons and a million man army. Same thing for China? What are we waiting for?

What, are we entitled to the oil in Iraq? Even if it was under the control of an evil, vile dictator? And I don't believe for a minute that he had WMD that were transported to Syria. Where's your proof?

And one last thing baffles me. How is it that the religious right supports war in any form. Isn't killing for any reason wrong? Didn't Jesus himself ask us to turn the other cheek?

You chastise Alexis for long posts. Maybe you should try following your own advice. And calling someone a "jerk"? How very, very Christian of you!

[Faithful]

You're confusing the reason for going into Iraq. The sole reason was not because of the problem of the Saudi Arabian 911 attacks. Satan is the author of confusion so don't confuse the two events. Saddam Hussein had to be stopped. He was a very bad man who killed millions of his own people with gas attacks. At some point the nations of the world might need to move against Iran as well because even Muslims admit its president is a crazy person who denied the holocaust and adamantly proclaims the annihilation of Israel and the death of every Jew.

I agree there is a jealousy. It is not outwardly proclaimed, but deep down inside Islamic peoples ask why their nations don't flourish as the West if they have the true faith. This jealousy is founded on a lie. The lie is that Jesus did not die on the cross in which some guy (Mohammed) in a cave all by himself made this up six centuries later without anything to support his idea. That is the foundation of the faith of Islam that you can make a claim about something without any supporting evidence and such becomes their way of being in a life of assuming to reject that God entered into His creation to atone for sins of mankind for eternal forgiveness and give eternal life.

I don't think US citizens are under any disillusionment why they are hated. They realize United States was the greatest nation in history. No nation has ever been so dominant economically globally.

The reason why entering Iraq was feasible was because it had the support of several nations to go in and stop Saddam who continued endlessly to violate UN agreed up demands. Enough was enough. United States can't be everywhere at once, but did have the resources to go into Iraq. You can't ask them to do everything even though there is much yet to do especially regarding North Korea, Iran, Syria and the evil dictatorships in Africa. As long as these are not democracies, the threat of nuclear war increases daily.

There are some key books written about how the weapons of mass destruction were transported to Syria in which Saddam to protect himself promptly moved them to avoid the inspectors in the rare times he let them in to his country. And obviously he had WMDs, for he used them against his own people. That is common knowledge.

Jesus did not say go to the Gentiles unarmed. If Hitler was not stopped, the world would be a much worse place today. Thank God the Christian nations stopped Hitler. It doesn't matter what they think about the Crusades, for you still have to do the right thing. The Crusades were wrong and done by non-Christians, but that does not change what must be done right today.

Notice, interestingly, Churchwork is just using the term Alexis uses "jerk" to place his own words back upon him when he said "using your own words". Alexis is not being chastised, but the truth of his mistaken assumptions are given to help him repent of his mistaken thinking.

I believe God wants United States to be in Iraq to influence a state change in mentality of the people of Iraq to stand up for democracy however long it takes or deemed necessary. The days of dictators is over! The battle in the world over the next century will be democracies against dictators! I am sharing this revelation of the Holy Spirit with you because it is what God wants you to accept.

Hope this helps.