Churchwork
08-01-2006, 10:13 PM
I love Isaiah 45.11. We literally can command God to do what He desires to do. My favorite of the Bibles is the RSV and the NLT, but here in fact the RSV and the NLT are wrong with a question mark in this verse while the other versions are without a question mark.
I wonder about that, my brother. It seems that RSV and the NLT are not the only translations rendering that apparent command as a question.
(YLT) Thus said Jehovah, The Holy One of Israel, and his Former: Ask Me of the things coming concerning My sons, Yea, concerning the work of My hands, ye command Me.'
(GW) The LORD is the Holy One and the maker of Israel. This is what the LORD says: Ask me about what is going to happen to my children! Are you going to give me orders concerning my handiwork?
(LITV) So says Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, and the One who formed him, Do you ask Me of the things to come? Do you give command to Me about My sons, and about the work of My hands?
(MSG) Thus GOD, The Holy of Israel, Israel's Maker, says: "Do you question who or what I'm making? Are you telling me what I can or cannot do?
(SSE) AsĂ* dice el SEĂ‘OR, el Santo de Israel, y su Formador: Preguntadme de las cosas por venir; inquiridme acerca de mis hijos, y acerca de la obra de mis manos.
(FLS) Ainsi parle l'Éternel, le Saint d'Israël, et son créateur: Veut-on me questionner sur l'avenir, Me donner des ordres sur mes enfants et sur l'oeuvre de mes mains?
You say, “We literally can command God”. By adding “to do what He desires to do” we seem to be taking the statement back completely. Since God has said that he will do what he desires to do (Isaiah 46:10) then it seems hardly necessary for anyone to command him. Please note that one may find “command” to be a little bit different pray “pray” or “ask”.
But I would ask this. Is there any evidence anywhere else in Scripture that the Lord allows us to give orders to him? I think especially of the Gospel accounts of his actions while here with us. Did he take orders from anyone? His mother? (See John 2). His brothers? (See John 7). His family? (See Matthew 12). The Canaanite woman? (See Matthew 15). The Centurian? (See Luke 7). Mary and Martha? (See John 11).
It seems to me that God does what he wants, when he wants, how he wants. Even when we humbly ask, with all the knowledge of his will that we have, we are often still not sure how to ask (Romans 8) because we do not know all the details of his perfect will. Thankfully, he grants unto us more than we can ask or think (Ephesians 3). If God submitted to us, to be commanded by us, we would be in big trouble. More than that, he would cease to be the Sovereign God.
Think about it. It may be that those other translations are correct.
I find it to be a matter of confidence in our relationship with the Lord to call upon Him to do as He promises according to His righteousness. Notice it is a new paragraph started in NKJV or NLT with v.11 with that very kind of confidence spoken of in v.13. in this new paragraph. The new paragraph, "Thus saith the Lord...", is created because a new point is being developed, not one "woe to him who strives with his maker", the theme of vv.9-10.
Matt. 18.18,19; Mark 11.23,24; Eph. 1.20-22; 2.6; 6.12,13,18,19a. In the Bible can be found a kind of prayer which is the highest and the most spiritual, yet few people notice or offer up such utterance. What is it? It is “authoritative prayer”. We know prayer of praise, prayer of thanksgiving, prayer of asking, and prayer of intercession, but we know very little of prayer of authority. Authoritative prayer is that which occupies a most significant place in the Word. It signifies authority, even the command of authority.
Now if we desire to be men and women of prayer, we must learn this authoritative kind. It is the type of prayer which the Lord refers to in Matthew 18.18—“What things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Here is loosing as well as binding prayer. The movement of heaven follows the movement of the earth. Heaven listens to the words on earth and acts on the earth’s command. Whatsoever is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever is loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven. It is not an asking on earth but a binding on earth; it is not an asking on earth but a loosing on earth. And this is authoritative prayer.
“Command ye me.” How do we dare to command God? Is not this too preposterous? too presumptuous? But this is what God himself says. Doubtless we should not in the least allow the flesh to come in here. Nevertheless we are hereby shown that there is a kind of commanding prayer. According to God’s viewpoint we may command Him. Such utterance needs to be learned specifically by all students of prayer.
Let us review the story of Exodus 14. When Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt he came to the shore of the Red Sea. A serious problem arose. Before them was the Red Sea and behind them were the pursuing Egyptians. At that moment the Israelites were truly in a dilemma. They saw the Egyptians coming after them, and they were sore afraid. They cried to the Lord on the one hand and murmured against Moses on the other. How did Moses react? From the word of God we learn that Moses cried to the Lord. But then God told him: “Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward. And lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thy hand over the sea, and divide it; and the children of Israel shall go into the midst of the sea on dry ground” (vv. 15-16). The rod which God gave to Moses represents authority. So that what God meant by His words was: You do not need to cry to Me, you may use authoritative prayer; you pray the prayer of command, and I will work. Hence what Moses learned and experienced here was authoritative prayer or the prayer of command.
Is 45:9 "Woe to him who strives with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth!
Shall the clay say to him who forms it, 'What are you making?'
Or shall your handiwork say, 'He has no hands'?
Isa 45:10 Woe to him who says to his father, 'What are you begetting?'
Or to the woman, 'What have you brought forth?'"
Isa 45:11 Thus saith Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: Ask me of the things that are to come; concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands, command ye me.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens; and all their host have I commanded.
Isa 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will make straight all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let my exiles go free, not for price nor reward, saith Jehovah of hosts.
God’s overcomers must learn how to use the authority of Christ and pray authoritative prayer. Prayer in the Scriptures is not only an asking but even more so an expression of authority. Command with authority—such is prayer.
Hence God’s overcomers must on the one hand be faithful in denying their own selves, the world, and Satan; but on the other hand know how to exercise the authority of Christ. We should (1) let God defeat us with the cross so that we may be defeated before God, and (2) defeat Satan by using the authority of Christ so that we may win the victory over Satan. Authoritative prayer is not petitioning, it is commanding; for there are two kinds of prayer: not only the prayer of petition but also the prayer of command: “Command ye me” says Isaiah 45.11. We may command God to do things, and such is commanding prayer.
Commanding prayer commences at the ascension of Christ. The death and resurrection of Christ, as we have seen, resolves God’s four cardinal issues—so that His death concludes all that is in Adam, His resurrection gives us new ground, and His ascension makes us sit in the heavenly places far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named: not only in this world but also in that which is to come. Ephesians 1 is a record of the ascension of Christ who ascended far above all rule and authority. Ephesians 2 tells of our sitting with Christ in the heavenly places. As Christ is far above all rule and authority, so we also are above all rule and authority.
Ephesians 1 tells us that the position of Christ is in the heavenly places. Chapter 2 tells us that our place in Christ is sitting with Him in the heavenly places. Chapter 6 tells us what we do in the heavenly places, even sitting there and praying—that is to say, exercising the authority of Christ and giving out commanding prayers. Ordinary prayer is a praying from earth to heaven. Commanding prayer is a praying from heaven to earth. The prayer in Matthew 6 is petitionary prayer, and hence is upward in direction. The prayer in Ephesians 6 is commanding prayer, and therefore it is downward. Thus we sit in the heavenly places and pour forth commanding prayer. “Amen” in Hebrew means “So be it” or “So it is”—this is command. At the beginning of any warfare Satan tries to unseat us from our heavenly position, which is one of victory. Warfare is a battle for position. Hence victory lies in occupying the right place. Being in Christ and sitting in the heavenly places alone gives authoritative prayer.
The “therefore” in Mark 11.24 shows us that verse 23 also deals with the subject of prayer. Yet nowhere in verse 23 are we told to pray to God. Instead it simply says, “Say unto this mountain”—that is, it is a commanding the mountain. A not speaking to God is also prayer—authoritative prayer. It is not asking God to deal with the mountain, the latter of which represents things that hinder. Only with perfect faith may one speak to the mountain. Now perfect faith comes out of perfect knowledge of God’s will. And thus we command what God has already commanded; we decide on that which God has already decided. Due to the fact of fully knowing God’s will, such faith as this is possible.
The Relationship between Authoritative Prayer and Overcomers
He who sits on the throne is God the Lord. He who succumbs beneath the throne is the Enemy. Prayer links us with God. All who overcome and reign as kings know how to pray. They know how to exercise the authority of God’s throne (for this authority rules the universe). We may turn to the throne and use the authority therein to bring a brother to us (Hudson Taylor, to cite one example, had exercised such authority). For the overcomers to rule over the church, the world, and even the powers of the air, they must rely on the authority of the throne. Once many decades ago ago some brethren in England wielded this authority of the throne to control political change. This is a reigning over the nations.
Spiritual warfare is offensive as well as defensive in nature. The control is not only over the nations but also over Hades and its principalities, authorities, powers, and dominions. May God teach us how to use the authority of Christ, because all things are in subjection under His feet since He is the Head of the church. And if we use the authority of God, we may bring all things under our feet too.
Matthew 18.18,19 deals with prayer. From the phrases “on earth” and “in heaven” of verse 19 we understand that the prayer in verse 18 is commanding prayer. For this prayer is action, not petition. It is a binding, not an asking God to bind.
This commanding prayer has two aspects about it:
(1) Bind—bind all the inordinate activities of the brothers and sisters in the meeting; bind all the disturbances to the work that come from people of the world; bind all the evil spirits and demons; and bind Satan and all his activities. We may rule as kings over all things. Whenever a thing happens in the world or among the brethren, that is the moment for us to rule as kings.
(2) Loose—we may also loose people. Loose all the timid brethren; loose all who ought to come out and work for the Lord; loose money in the grip of people that it might be given for God’s use; and loose the truths of God.
We are ambassadors of God, and therefore we enjoy extraterritoriality on earth. We may call in heaven to rule over the earth.
In concluding this I am confident command ye is not a question, but confident willing of God's will because that will is entirely known upon a matter. Certain aspects of your words aid in this proof, when you said "we do not know" or "not sure" or "big trouble" and the kicker, "cease to be the Sovereign God". These 4 quotes of yours speak of doubt and instability and confusion, and Satan eats that stuff up. What I see you doing is taking confidence away from brothers and sisters which is unhealthy. But where God has stipulated something in no uncertain terms there His will may be commanded back upon Him according to His righteousnes for He abides not only in His promises but all that is of Himself. Truly, Satan wants to cast doubt upon our hearts. Don't let him win.
May I ask you if are a calvinist? And what is the name of the local church you attend?
I wonder about that, my brother. It seems that RSV and the NLT are not the only translations rendering that apparent command as a question.
(YLT) Thus said Jehovah, The Holy One of Israel, and his Former: Ask Me of the things coming concerning My sons, Yea, concerning the work of My hands, ye command Me.'
(GW) The LORD is the Holy One and the maker of Israel. This is what the LORD says: Ask me about what is going to happen to my children! Are you going to give me orders concerning my handiwork?
(LITV) So says Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, and the One who formed him, Do you ask Me of the things to come? Do you give command to Me about My sons, and about the work of My hands?
(MSG) Thus GOD, The Holy of Israel, Israel's Maker, says: "Do you question who or what I'm making? Are you telling me what I can or cannot do?
(SSE) AsĂ* dice el SEĂ‘OR, el Santo de Israel, y su Formador: Preguntadme de las cosas por venir; inquiridme acerca de mis hijos, y acerca de la obra de mis manos.
(FLS) Ainsi parle l'Éternel, le Saint d'Israël, et son créateur: Veut-on me questionner sur l'avenir, Me donner des ordres sur mes enfants et sur l'oeuvre de mes mains?
You say, “We literally can command God”. By adding “to do what He desires to do” we seem to be taking the statement back completely. Since God has said that he will do what he desires to do (Isaiah 46:10) then it seems hardly necessary for anyone to command him. Please note that one may find “command” to be a little bit different pray “pray” or “ask”.
But I would ask this. Is there any evidence anywhere else in Scripture that the Lord allows us to give orders to him? I think especially of the Gospel accounts of his actions while here with us. Did he take orders from anyone? His mother? (See John 2). His brothers? (See John 7). His family? (See Matthew 12). The Canaanite woman? (See Matthew 15). The Centurian? (See Luke 7). Mary and Martha? (See John 11).
It seems to me that God does what he wants, when he wants, how he wants. Even when we humbly ask, with all the knowledge of his will that we have, we are often still not sure how to ask (Romans 8) because we do not know all the details of his perfect will. Thankfully, he grants unto us more than we can ask or think (Ephesians 3). If God submitted to us, to be commanded by us, we would be in big trouble. More than that, he would cease to be the Sovereign God.
Think about it. It may be that those other translations are correct.
I find it to be a matter of confidence in our relationship with the Lord to call upon Him to do as He promises according to His righteousness. Notice it is a new paragraph started in NKJV or NLT with v.11 with that very kind of confidence spoken of in v.13. in this new paragraph. The new paragraph, "Thus saith the Lord...", is created because a new point is being developed, not one "woe to him who strives with his maker", the theme of vv.9-10.
Matt. 18.18,19; Mark 11.23,24; Eph. 1.20-22; 2.6; 6.12,13,18,19a. In the Bible can be found a kind of prayer which is the highest and the most spiritual, yet few people notice or offer up such utterance. What is it? It is “authoritative prayer”. We know prayer of praise, prayer of thanksgiving, prayer of asking, and prayer of intercession, but we know very little of prayer of authority. Authoritative prayer is that which occupies a most significant place in the Word. It signifies authority, even the command of authority.
Now if we desire to be men and women of prayer, we must learn this authoritative kind. It is the type of prayer which the Lord refers to in Matthew 18.18—“What things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Here is loosing as well as binding prayer. The movement of heaven follows the movement of the earth. Heaven listens to the words on earth and acts on the earth’s command. Whatsoever is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever is loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven. It is not an asking on earth but a binding on earth; it is not an asking on earth but a loosing on earth. And this is authoritative prayer.
“Command ye me.” How do we dare to command God? Is not this too preposterous? too presumptuous? But this is what God himself says. Doubtless we should not in the least allow the flesh to come in here. Nevertheless we are hereby shown that there is a kind of commanding prayer. According to God’s viewpoint we may command Him. Such utterance needs to be learned specifically by all students of prayer.
Let us review the story of Exodus 14. When Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt he came to the shore of the Red Sea. A serious problem arose. Before them was the Red Sea and behind them were the pursuing Egyptians. At that moment the Israelites were truly in a dilemma. They saw the Egyptians coming after them, and they were sore afraid. They cried to the Lord on the one hand and murmured against Moses on the other. How did Moses react? From the word of God we learn that Moses cried to the Lord. But then God told him: “Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward. And lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thy hand over the sea, and divide it; and the children of Israel shall go into the midst of the sea on dry ground” (vv. 15-16). The rod which God gave to Moses represents authority. So that what God meant by His words was: You do not need to cry to Me, you may use authoritative prayer; you pray the prayer of command, and I will work. Hence what Moses learned and experienced here was authoritative prayer or the prayer of command.
Is 45:9 "Woe to him who strives with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth!
Shall the clay say to him who forms it, 'What are you making?'
Or shall your handiwork say, 'He has no hands'?
Isa 45:10 Woe to him who says to his father, 'What are you begetting?'
Or to the woman, 'What have you brought forth?'"
Isa 45:11 Thus saith Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker: Ask me of the things that are to come; concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands, command ye me.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens; and all their host have I commanded.
Isa 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will make straight all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let my exiles go free, not for price nor reward, saith Jehovah of hosts.
God’s overcomers must learn how to use the authority of Christ and pray authoritative prayer. Prayer in the Scriptures is not only an asking but even more so an expression of authority. Command with authority—such is prayer.
Hence God’s overcomers must on the one hand be faithful in denying their own selves, the world, and Satan; but on the other hand know how to exercise the authority of Christ. We should (1) let God defeat us with the cross so that we may be defeated before God, and (2) defeat Satan by using the authority of Christ so that we may win the victory over Satan. Authoritative prayer is not petitioning, it is commanding; for there are two kinds of prayer: not only the prayer of petition but also the prayer of command: “Command ye me” says Isaiah 45.11. We may command God to do things, and such is commanding prayer.
Commanding prayer commences at the ascension of Christ. The death and resurrection of Christ, as we have seen, resolves God’s four cardinal issues—so that His death concludes all that is in Adam, His resurrection gives us new ground, and His ascension makes us sit in the heavenly places far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named: not only in this world but also in that which is to come. Ephesians 1 is a record of the ascension of Christ who ascended far above all rule and authority. Ephesians 2 tells of our sitting with Christ in the heavenly places. As Christ is far above all rule and authority, so we also are above all rule and authority.
Ephesians 1 tells us that the position of Christ is in the heavenly places. Chapter 2 tells us that our place in Christ is sitting with Him in the heavenly places. Chapter 6 tells us what we do in the heavenly places, even sitting there and praying—that is to say, exercising the authority of Christ and giving out commanding prayers. Ordinary prayer is a praying from earth to heaven. Commanding prayer is a praying from heaven to earth. The prayer in Matthew 6 is petitionary prayer, and hence is upward in direction. The prayer in Ephesians 6 is commanding prayer, and therefore it is downward. Thus we sit in the heavenly places and pour forth commanding prayer. “Amen” in Hebrew means “So be it” or “So it is”—this is command. At the beginning of any warfare Satan tries to unseat us from our heavenly position, which is one of victory. Warfare is a battle for position. Hence victory lies in occupying the right place. Being in Christ and sitting in the heavenly places alone gives authoritative prayer.
The “therefore” in Mark 11.24 shows us that verse 23 also deals with the subject of prayer. Yet nowhere in verse 23 are we told to pray to God. Instead it simply says, “Say unto this mountain”—that is, it is a commanding the mountain. A not speaking to God is also prayer—authoritative prayer. It is not asking God to deal with the mountain, the latter of which represents things that hinder. Only with perfect faith may one speak to the mountain. Now perfect faith comes out of perfect knowledge of God’s will. And thus we command what God has already commanded; we decide on that which God has already decided. Due to the fact of fully knowing God’s will, such faith as this is possible.
The Relationship between Authoritative Prayer and Overcomers
He who sits on the throne is God the Lord. He who succumbs beneath the throne is the Enemy. Prayer links us with God. All who overcome and reign as kings know how to pray. They know how to exercise the authority of God’s throne (for this authority rules the universe). We may turn to the throne and use the authority therein to bring a brother to us (Hudson Taylor, to cite one example, had exercised such authority). For the overcomers to rule over the church, the world, and even the powers of the air, they must rely on the authority of the throne. Once many decades ago ago some brethren in England wielded this authority of the throne to control political change. This is a reigning over the nations.
Spiritual warfare is offensive as well as defensive in nature. The control is not only over the nations but also over Hades and its principalities, authorities, powers, and dominions. May God teach us how to use the authority of Christ, because all things are in subjection under His feet since He is the Head of the church. And if we use the authority of God, we may bring all things under our feet too.
Matthew 18.18,19 deals with prayer. From the phrases “on earth” and “in heaven” of verse 19 we understand that the prayer in verse 18 is commanding prayer. For this prayer is action, not petition. It is a binding, not an asking God to bind.
This commanding prayer has two aspects about it:
(1) Bind—bind all the inordinate activities of the brothers and sisters in the meeting; bind all the disturbances to the work that come from people of the world; bind all the evil spirits and demons; and bind Satan and all his activities. We may rule as kings over all things. Whenever a thing happens in the world or among the brethren, that is the moment for us to rule as kings.
(2) Loose—we may also loose people. Loose all the timid brethren; loose all who ought to come out and work for the Lord; loose money in the grip of people that it might be given for God’s use; and loose the truths of God.
We are ambassadors of God, and therefore we enjoy extraterritoriality on earth. We may call in heaven to rule over the earth.
In concluding this I am confident command ye is not a question, but confident willing of God's will because that will is entirely known upon a matter. Certain aspects of your words aid in this proof, when you said "we do not know" or "not sure" or "big trouble" and the kicker, "cease to be the Sovereign God". These 4 quotes of yours speak of doubt and instability and confusion, and Satan eats that stuff up. What I see you doing is taking confidence away from brothers and sisters which is unhealthy. But where God has stipulated something in no uncertain terms there His will may be commanded back upon Him according to His righteousnes for He abides not only in His promises but all that is of Himself. Truly, Satan wants to cast doubt upon our hearts. Don't let him win.
May I ask you if are a calvinist? And what is the name of the local church you attend?