Churchwork
08-01-2006, 10:09 PM
Transition
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 1 to 12 is speaking to the Jews primarily, while 13 on is for the church. After chapter 13, the chapters are not as distinct as the first 12 chapters.
Therefore, v.12 is speaking to for the Jews to be the remnant of Jews, that if you are not an OVERCOMING remnant you will end up outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ during the millennial kingdom, though still a remnant. Chapter 11 discloses the remnant, the first fruit garnered from the labor spoken in the previous chapter.
This is not to say that all Jews are saved (or "remnants" in the dispensation of the law), since the Kingdom of Heaven begins with John the baptist, and the Jews, through the Pharisees, are clearly rejecting their Messiah by calling Him Beelzebub (10.25) and saying He performs miracles by the power of the devil (9.34). In chapter 12, Christ speaks of cutting them off, and by chapter 23, He actually does cut them off, no longer having patience for them.
John the baptist is the transition from the law and the prophets of the coming Messiah, to the dispensation of Grace whereby Christians have the accomplished work of redemption finished by Jesus Christ our Savior on the cross.
In taking this perspective, which is an easy yoke, we may see in transition that OUTER DARKNESS loss of rewards which is a disciplining (making ready for the new city) for not overcoming in Christ is the consequence of not being an overcoming remnant (which is more than a regular remnant) in the same way that those that do not come out of the 7 church periods (Rev. 2 and 3), will also not be considered in the first resurrection (Rev. 20.4) to reign with Christ with an iron rod (mentioned 3 times in Revelation).
Troy,
I must admit that I don’t completely understand what you are saying. Keep in mind I seem to be slowe than most. I also believe, that generally speaking, God’s word is clear and concise. It does not have to be complicated; I think that man tends to make it that way.
I have read and re-read Matthew 8 and I interpret it as demonstration and lessons in faith of varying degrees. From the wholehearted faith displayed by the Centurion, which even astonished Jesus in Mat.8: 10 to the dim faith displayed by the Disciples in Mat. 8: 23-27.
With this in mind I have come to understand your message all the way up to the last paragraph. Can you clarify that one point for me please?
I’m sorry I’m a bit slow.
God Bless,
Ken
Simply, not all those that are saved enter into the millennial kingdom. The vast majority go to "outer darkness".
The last paragraph explains why.
Then what is their fate after the millennial kingdom? Is this “outer darkness” like that purgatory thing some embrace?
Everyone who is saved, all Jewish remnants in the OT period (and non Jews that were saved, like Job), and all who are saved in the dispensation of grace, and all who are saved in the millennial kingdom, are all sinless in the eternity future of the new city and the new earth. Outer darkness facilitates that for those that are still allowing the hurt of the second death upon them.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bereconciled.htm*
Read this link and you will get it, but read so that there is nothing you do not understand in this link.
"Purgatory as promoted by the Roman Catholic Church commences, in its view, at the time of death; and indulgence is promised by the Church through the Mass and other means. To this thought we vigorously object. Nevertheless, we cannot use heresy, either, to oppose the fact that Christians may receive punishment. We can only rely on the Scriptures to prove that the Matthew passage before us has reference to the judgment-seat of Christ."
In other words, do not think Christians do not have to undergo accountability and that God will not institute rewards for believers for 1000 years in Rev. 20.4 (see also Matt. 25.1-12 the 5 wise virgins, and the reigning over 10,5,3 cities).
*this is the one and only time Watchman Nee ever mentioned "purgatory" in all his writings, and he did so in a negative sense.
Jews are only spoken to primarily up to chapter 12.
Matt. 13 and on is towards the church, so Stan Man will mess you up.
We need to keep into account the fact that Christians and all saved since Adam will be differentiated by God into overcomers (Rev. 20.4) and non-overcomers.
There needs to be those non-overcomers who go into outer darkness loss of rewards which has no fire about it, which is not hell.
Matt. 8.12 shows us that those in the Kingdom of Heaven that do not overcome in the kingdom of heaven, which starts with John the baptist, in Christ will be cast into outer darkness loss of rewards, outside the light of the reward of reigning with Christ during the millennial kingdom to come, when they return with Christ His holy myriads (Jude 1.14,15).
The "children of the kingdom" is simply the children of the "kingdom of heaven" that started with John the Baptist. There is not another kingdom to refer to here.
Since Matt. 8.12 is speaking at the time to the Jews it is speaking, not specifically of all those saved since Adam, just those in the kingdom of heaven that began with John the baptist; though, Rev. 20.4 gives additional detail speaking also of all saved since Adam, using the term "Saints of the Most High". Nonetheless, since in this verse (v.11) does not say the "kingdom of heaven" is now or in the future (though it is referring to now and in the future), we may surmise all those included in the kingdom of heaven, will necessarily include all since Adam who are resurrected also at the last trumpet (1 Thess. 4.15-17) as the kingdom of heaven is from John the baptist to the Great Tribulation to the end of the coming millennial kingdom (1000 year reign of Christ).
20.4 Three classes of people will reign with Christ:
(1) The overcomers will sit on thrones, and judgment will be given to them (20.4a). This shows that they have inherited the kingdom (see also Dan. 7.10, 18, 22-“Saints of the Most High” which would include old testament saints too).
(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”-20.4b). These are the souls under the alter as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed.
(3) The martyrs during the Great Tribulation. These are those who do not worship the beast nor his image, and upon whose foreheads and hands no mark of the beast is received (20.4c).
As we can see here clearly, not all the saved are included in these 3 groups.
From this we may conclude that the Saints of the Most High are all saints since Adam who have not necessarily been martyed, while the martyed are also included at least since the time the kingdom of heaven started with John the baptist.
This is very exacting.
Ponder this as long as you can so it sinks in: overcomers (unto reward of reigning) and non-overcomers (unto outer-darkness loss of rewards), whether FROM the dispensation of the law, grace or millennial rewards. Rewards are done away with in the new city and the new earth after the millennium.
Troy,
You said,
"(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”-20.4b). These are the souls under the alter as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed."
You couldn't be more off base in terms of who the martyrs are. Those who had been beheaded also had not taken the mark of the beast on their foreheads, which clearly means, for those without blinders, that they were beheaded during the 7-year tribulation period. So to say they were martyred over 20 centuries is hogwash! Plain and simple.
Wake up, Troy!!
You misread. To requote what was said already, there are martyrs of the past 20 centuries, for obviously the apostles were martyred, Peter was hung upside down on a cross, and millions have been martyed in the past 20 centuries.
(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”-20.4b). These are the souls under the alter as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed.
And there is also those martyed in the Tribulation itself, the 7 year period, which is the consummation of this age during the parousia of Christ.
(3) The martyrs during the Great Tribulation. These are those who do not worship the beast nor his image, and upon whose foreheads and hands no mark of the beast is received (20.4c).
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 1 to 12 is speaking to the Jews primarily, while 13 on is for the church. After chapter 13, the chapters are not as distinct as the first 12 chapters.
Therefore, v.12 is speaking to for the Jews to be the remnant of Jews, that if you are not an OVERCOMING remnant you will end up outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ during the millennial kingdom, though still a remnant. Chapter 11 discloses the remnant, the first fruit garnered from the labor spoken in the previous chapter.
This is not to say that all Jews are saved (or "remnants" in the dispensation of the law), since the Kingdom of Heaven begins with John the baptist, and the Jews, through the Pharisees, are clearly rejecting their Messiah by calling Him Beelzebub (10.25) and saying He performs miracles by the power of the devil (9.34). In chapter 12, Christ speaks of cutting them off, and by chapter 23, He actually does cut them off, no longer having patience for them.
John the baptist is the transition from the law and the prophets of the coming Messiah, to the dispensation of Grace whereby Christians have the accomplished work of redemption finished by Jesus Christ our Savior on the cross.
In taking this perspective, which is an easy yoke, we may see in transition that OUTER DARKNESS loss of rewards which is a disciplining (making ready for the new city) for not overcoming in Christ is the consequence of not being an overcoming remnant (which is more than a regular remnant) in the same way that those that do not come out of the 7 church periods (Rev. 2 and 3), will also not be considered in the first resurrection (Rev. 20.4) to reign with Christ with an iron rod (mentioned 3 times in Revelation).
Troy,
I must admit that I don’t completely understand what you are saying. Keep in mind I seem to be slowe than most. I also believe, that generally speaking, God’s word is clear and concise. It does not have to be complicated; I think that man tends to make it that way.
I have read and re-read Matthew 8 and I interpret it as demonstration and lessons in faith of varying degrees. From the wholehearted faith displayed by the Centurion, which even astonished Jesus in Mat.8: 10 to the dim faith displayed by the Disciples in Mat. 8: 23-27.
With this in mind I have come to understand your message all the way up to the last paragraph. Can you clarify that one point for me please?
I’m sorry I’m a bit slow.
God Bless,
Ken
Simply, not all those that are saved enter into the millennial kingdom. The vast majority go to "outer darkness".
The last paragraph explains why.
Then what is their fate after the millennial kingdom? Is this “outer darkness” like that purgatory thing some embrace?
Everyone who is saved, all Jewish remnants in the OT period (and non Jews that were saved, like Job), and all who are saved in the dispensation of grace, and all who are saved in the millennial kingdom, are all sinless in the eternity future of the new city and the new earth. Outer darkness facilitates that for those that are still allowing the hurt of the second death upon them.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bereconciled.htm*
Read this link and you will get it, but read so that there is nothing you do not understand in this link.
"Purgatory as promoted by the Roman Catholic Church commences, in its view, at the time of death; and indulgence is promised by the Church through the Mass and other means. To this thought we vigorously object. Nevertheless, we cannot use heresy, either, to oppose the fact that Christians may receive punishment. We can only rely on the Scriptures to prove that the Matthew passage before us has reference to the judgment-seat of Christ."
In other words, do not think Christians do not have to undergo accountability and that God will not institute rewards for believers for 1000 years in Rev. 20.4 (see also Matt. 25.1-12 the 5 wise virgins, and the reigning over 10,5,3 cities).
*this is the one and only time Watchman Nee ever mentioned "purgatory" in all his writings, and he did so in a negative sense.
Jews are only spoken to primarily up to chapter 12.
Matt. 13 and on is towards the church, so Stan Man will mess you up.
We need to keep into account the fact that Christians and all saved since Adam will be differentiated by God into overcomers (Rev. 20.4) and non-overcomers.
There needs to be those non-overcomers who go into outer darkness loss of rewards which has no fire about it, which is not hell.
Matt. 8.12 shows us that those in the Kingdom of Heaven that do not overcome in the kingdom of heaven, which starts with John the baptist, in Christ will be cast into outer darkness loss of rewards, outside the light of the reward of reigning with Christ during the millennial kingdom to come, when they return with Christ His holy myriads (Jude 1.14,15).
The "children of the kingdom" is simply the children of the "kingdom of heaven" that started with John the Baptist. There is not another kingdom to refer to here.
Since Matt. 8.12 is speaking at the time to the Jews it is speaking, not specifically of all those saved since Adam, just those in the kingdom of heaven that began with John the baptist; though, Rev. 20.4 gives additional detail speaking also of all saved since Adam, using the term "Saints of the Most High". Nonetheless, since in this verse (v.11) does not say the "kingdom of heaven" is now or in the future (though it is referring to now and in the future), we may surmise all those included in the kingdom of heaven, will necessarily include all since Adam who are resurrected also at the last trumpet (1 Thess. 4.15-17) as the kingdom of heaven is from John the baptist to the Great Tribulation to the end of the coming millennial kingdom (1000 year reign of Christ).
20.4 Three classes of people will reign with Christ:
(1) The overcomers will sit on thrones, and judgment will be given to them (20.4a). This shows that they have inherited the kingdom (see also Dan. 7.10, 18, 22-“Saints of the Most High” which would include old testament saints too).
(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”-20.4b). These are the souls under the alter as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed.
(3) The martyrs during the Great Tribulation. These are those who do not worship the beast nor his image, and upon whose foreheads and hands no mark of the beast is received (20.4c).
As we can see here clearly, not all the saved are included in these 3 groups.
From this we may conclude that the Saints of the Most High are all saints since Adam who have not necessarily been martyed, while the martyed are also included at least since the time the kingdom of heaven started with John the baptist.
This is very exacting.
Ponder this as long as you can so it sinks in: overcomers (unto reward of reigning) and non-overcomers (unto outer-darkness loss of rewards), whether FROM the dispensation of the law, grace or millennial rewards. Rewards are done away with in the new city and the new earth after the millennium.
Troy,
You said,
"(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”-20.4b). These are the souls under the alter as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed."
You couldn't be more off base in terms of who the martyrs are. Those who had been beheaded also had not taken the mark of the beast on their foreheads, which clearly means, for those without blinders, that they were beheaded during the 7-year tribulation period. So to say they were martyred over 20 centuries is hogwash! Plain and simple.
Wake up, Troy!!
You misread. To requote what was said already, there are martyrs of the past 20 centuries, for obviously the apostles were martyred, Peter was hung upside down on a cross, and millions have been martyed in the past 20 centuries.
(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”-20.4b). These are the souls under the alter as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed.
And there is also those martyed in the Tribulation itself, the 7 year period, which is the consummation of this age during the parousia of Christ.
(3) The martyrs during the Great Tribulation. These are those who do not worship the beast nor his image, and upon whose foreheads and hands no mark of the beast is received (20.4c).