Churchwork
08-01-2006, 10:02 PM
The Parable of the Hid Treasure Matthew 13.44
“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a treasure hidden [past participle] in the field; which a man found [past tense], and hid [past] ; and in his joy he goeth [present] and selleth [present] all that he hath [present], and buyeth [present] that field”—Most commentators interpret this parable in one of the following ways:
(1) The treasure is Christ, the field is the gospel. So Christ hides the gospel. The man is the sinner. He forsakes all to follow the Lord. But we would like to ask the following questions: (a) The gospel is to manifest Christ, how can it then be hidden instead? (b) Where in the Scriptures does “field” ever point to the gospel? © What can a sinner buy? (d) Is Christ an article of merchandise which costs something? (e) “Found” and “hid” here are totally at variance with the facts. (f) How do you hide the gospel? (g) If the gospel may be bought, it no longer is the gospel.
(2) The field is the Bible, the treasure is salvation, and the man is the sinner. Hence salvation is hidden in the Bible, and when man finds salvation he forsakes all to obtain it. Again, we would ask some questions and make some observations: (a) Does the Bible reveal or hide salvation? (b) Does man find salvation or is salvation preached to men? © Must one pay a price to know the Bible? (d) As a matter of fact, it does not require such a great price to purchase a Bible. (e) There is no guarantee that one would gain Christ after he has purchased a Bible anyway. (f) And why should anyone hide Christ after he has come to know Him? Why should he be afraid of being discovered by somebody else?
(3) The field is the world, the treasure is the church, and the man is Christ. Having seen the church, Christ forsakes all to buy her. Nevertheless, we would like to inquire into the following matters: (a) When and where did Christ discover the church while He was on earth? (b) Or if the treasure signifies the glory of the church, then while the Lord was on earth when did the church ever manifest her glory? © Or if the treasure speaks of sinners, the Lord met sinners everywhere he went and there was therefore no need to find them. (d) Why should Christ hide the sinners once He has found them?
Now if the above interpretations are faulty at various points, how then should we explain the parable of the treasure? Since the Lord has not himself explained it, we must interpret it by the use of other Scriptures. In 1 Chronicles 27.25 the word “treasures” is an expression for the glory of the kingdom of David. In Ecclesiastes the term “treasure” is used to show forth the abundance of Solomon’s kingdom. The glory of a kingdom lies in its treasures. Even in the time of the Hebraic theocracy—that is to say, from Moses to the last of the judges—treasures represented glory. When the nation was strong, she kept her treasures; while she was weak, her treasures were taken as spoil.
“Field” is the world (see v.38). Why is the treasure hidden in the field? The glory of the kingdom of God has never been manifested on earth. Especially after the Jews were taken captive to Babylon, God was called the God of heaven. Men could not see that God actually ruled the universe. Even before the Captivity, the glory of God’s kingdom was hidden to all eyes except to a relatively few. It was not unveiled appreciably until the time of John the Baptist, who began to proclaim that the kingdom of heaven was near. How long was the glory of the kingdom of heaven hidden? From the time of creation until John the Baptist (see Matt. 13.35, 25.34). Who had hidden the glory of the kingdom of heaven? God himself had (see Prov. 25.2, Rom. 11.33). The field is the world as explained in verse 38, else the Lord would certainly have said otherwise here. All this goes to show that in the future the kingdom of heaven will be connected with the world, for the kingdom of heaven shall one day be manifested on earth (see Zech. 14.5,9; and also Ps. 8. 6-9—this latter Scripture being a psalm of the kingdom). The domain of the future kingdom of heaven shall be the earth (though its rule shall indeed be from heaven), for the world will not be destroyed until after the millennial kingdom is ended.
“Which a man found”—This refers to the work of Christ on earth. During the days of confusion in the world, there came one who cried in the wilderness, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand”; and both the Lord and His disciples proclaimed the same message. The power (as manifested in healings and miracles) as well as the teaching of the kingdom of heaven were even then being made manifest (the word “found” in verse 44 actually means to have discovered without the necessity of earnest seeking). The Lord first discovered it; none before Him had even unearthed it. Therefore, the man here is Christ. Neither angels nor prophets could have disclosed it (see Heb. 2.5-8). And if the angels could not disclose it, who else but Christ could?
“And hid”—All actions which occurred before and including this one are cast in the past tense, indicating that the “hidden” and the “found” and the “hid” are all accomplished facts. The actions which follow in the verse are the things the Lord will do thereafter. But why is “hid” again mentioned? Because the Jews have rejected Christ and His kingdom (please recall that this rejection had already begun in the time of chapter 11 and is now fully manifested in the time of chapter 12). For this reason the glory of the kingdom of heaven is now hidden. Henceforth, the Lord does not perform many mighty works among the Jews (and if He does, He does so only for individuals). He also hides himself (see John 8.59, 12.36; Luke 4.30). And why does He hide? Because something is wrong (which points to the rejection of the Jews), and because there is now danger (which indicates the conspiracy of the Jews). He hides himself from the Jews as a nation, not from individuals or from His disciples. He may reject the nation of the Jews, but He never rejects any individual.
“In his joy”—For verses on the joy of the glory of the kingdom we must turn to Luke 10.17-20, 21: the latter verse being the only place in the Gospels where the joy of the Lord is recorded.
“He goeth”—Christ goes to the cross at Jerusalem.
“And selleth all that he hath”—A price must be paid. It costs Christ His life. When the Lord came to this world, He had already forsaken the greater part of His possessions (yet not all). Soon at the cross, He is to sacrifice all, even His life.
“And buyeth that field”—Buy (see Acts 20.28, 2 Peter 2.1, Rev. 5. 9). The purpose in buying is for the treasure in the field. The scope of the purchase is the world. According to 2 Peter 2.1, even the unsaved are also bought. Sin-offering is for believers, propitiation is for the whole world (1 John 2.2). God expects great things on earth, and so He purchases it. The future kingdom is connected with the earth, because the kingdom shall be on earth (see Rev. 11.15, Matt. 6.10). The Lord’s heart is also upon the earth (see Matt. 6.21); therefore, He will come again to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth. - Nee
the Treasure in the field..
The man had to buy the whole field get ''the Treasure''.
sold all he had,
in those days it meant [even to the extent] of selling his family into slavery.
many people write about this, have all basic ideas on it... i have read many versions
but only the Holy Spirit can reveal what the real meaning is.
No-one would believe it, unless they are first- prepared for this revelation
'' I shall build My church and the gates of hell/grave shall not prevail''.
somewhere in those words is this treasure.
The Holy Spirit has just revealed the meaning in the first post. Study it and let the Holy Spirit testify that it is correct.
1) treasure is the glory of the kingdom (millennial kingdom) yet to be manifested on the earth
2) man is Christ
3) field is the world
4) Christ selling all is His death on the cross.
5) hidden because Jews don't get it, nor does the world
This is in agreement with "again" v.45,46 except that the latter verses are talking about the beauty of the church (pearl of great price).
This analysis is better than the first 3 popular versions, for sure.
I have researched this parable and all of Matt 13 parables quite extensively. Not that I'm any
recognized expert in the field, I just let the Bible interpret itself.
This is what I have uncovered:
Treasure: the remnant of Israel, the lost sheep of the house of Israel
Field: the adulterous generation of the house of Israel, the nation of Israel
Man: Jesus
Found Treasure: chose 12 sons of Abraham from the remnant to be shepherds of the kingdom
Hid Treasure: after Israel's shepherds rejected Him as Messiah, He unveiled in Matthew 13 a new form of the kingdom, but hid the knowledge of it from the eyes and ears of unbelievers
Sold all He had: sacrificed Himself as the Lamb of God to pay the penalty of sin for all
Bought the field: bought the whole world and Israel too.
I can expand this further if anyone is interested.
StanMan
These things are already proven in the opening post.
I only have this one observation, that you make this too much about Israel which is suppose to be a book for the church regarding the treasure. This mistake can happen when you do not distinguish between the Messianic Kingdom (being at the center of all nations) and the Millennial Rewards which both exists concurrently during the 1000 years; and rewards being just for those who overcome in Christ whether Jew or Gentile.
In this regard you are slightly overemphasizing Israel here as being the treasure when it is not.
Otherwise we agree on the rest.
Troy, my friend, you are too hasty to think you have proved something.
Don't go where angels fear to tread.
Here's some more to chew on:
Indeed, the Apostle Paul was enthusiastic to report that all children of God, not just the Hebrews, will be heirs to this promise, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal 3:26- 29). Thus, Paul affirms that God’s promise to Abraham would be fulfilled in those gentiles who put on Christ.
The gospel to the gentiles had a foundation in Hebrew prophecy. The seed of Messiah would be inherited from King David and would include the gentiles, “And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it all the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.” (Isa 11:10). It has been prophesied many times that a people for His name would be gathered out of the gentile nations, “And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.” (Zech 2:11). It was the sum and substance of New Covenant blessings, as was made clear in Hebrews:
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. . . . For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:6-8,10-13)
There is only one kingdom of promise...the millennial one. The other one you mischaracterize as a kingdom of the "church" is simply what Jesus described as the kingdom of heaven in Matthew. This was in fact an unknown phase of the kingdom crafted for one purpose–to gather out a special people from the gentiles in order to fulfill God’s promises to Abraham and David, “God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name...After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord.” (Acts 15:14-18).
And there lots more to support this.
How can Israel be overemphasized? Israel was the apple of God's eye, His chosen people. When Jesus came, He said it was to seek and to save. Before Matthew 12, He came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Once the shepherds of the nation of Israel refused to receive Him as Messiah, He withdrew His offer of the promised kingdom and offered an unknown kingdom which He defined in Matthew 13 and called it the kingdom of heaven. He turned the kingdom over to His disciples (all Jews), making them shepherds of the mystery kingdom of heaven, which He now rules from the right hand of the Father in heaven. This kingdom was formed by Jesus, given to the disciples under a New Covenant in His blood, and commanded them to go and make disciples of all nations. The purpose of the New Covenant kingdom was for God to call a special people for His name out of the gentile nations, which is obviously the Pearl of Great Price. Then to graft this people into the root of Israel and make them all spiritual sons of Abraham to rule with Him in the promised kingdom to come. Thus the treasure (the remnant of Israel) and the great pearl (gentiles) are joined together as one in Christ (no longer Jew and gentile) in the millennial age.
It is impossible to overemphasize Israel when they were the people that were promised a king forever to sit on the throne of David. This promise was never abrogated and still stands. Anyone who says they love their neighbor and does not love Israel, whom God loves, cannot justify this position before God. The whole Bible was written about the Jews and their High Priestly King. The problem is that the contemporary church has lost touch with its Jewish roots, which is a form of apostasy. The first century church knew this very well.
Peace and love,
StanMan
StanMan,
Your first post adds nothing one way or the other, so it is not helpful. Twice the treasure is hidden, once in the past, once in the present. This hiding was in the OT, and again in the NT; hidden from Israel and the world. Or in other words not manifested on the earth in the OT, and still today, not manifested in fullness and not available to the Jews either for rejecting Christ, hidden to them. Think of the FIELD as earth which is a much more wonderful scope than just one nation.
You made some error thinking I think that there is some kingdom of the church. I never used that phrase. The Church age ends at the end of this dispensation of grace, so after that we enter a new dispensation without the Church. The Kingdom of Heaven is 3 things: (1) outward appearances according to Matt. 13, (2) spiritual reality or conduct of Matt. 5-7, and (3) reward of reigning in the millennium (not the millennium itself). The Church is in the Kingdom of Heaven, but not all all those in the Kingdom of Heaven are in the Church, since there are unsaved tares masquerading in the kingdom of Heaven as if they are in the Church.
You were too quick not to read carefully the proof already given. I think you are Judaizing Christianity for whatever reason that may be. May I ask what your end-times persuasion is? The Lord's heart is upon the earth; therefore, He will come again to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth. Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Psa 8:6 Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; Thou hast put all things under his feet:
Psa 8:7 All sheep and oxen, Yea, and the beasts of the field,
Psa 8:8 The birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, Whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, How excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Now it is true Israel will receive her promised remnant as the center of all nations in the Messianic Kingdom. My love for the little brother, Christians and the Jews is immense. However, one nation is not God's treasure, even if this nation is the first nation God revealed Himself to. After all, when the millennial kingdom ends, nations will be done away with also. This nation of Israel will not reign as kings and priests in the millennial kingdom, for that reward is given to all those since Adam and Eve who are overcomers in Christ according to Rev. 20.4 from each dispensation,
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
"Treasure" (1 Chron. 27.25) is an expression of the glory of the kingdom of David. Same in Ecclesistes for Solomon's kingdom. Glory is definitely the emphasis here. When a nation is strong she has her treasures. Since the glory of the kingdom of heaven has been hidden from the Jews and it has been hidden on earth, this is what we long for to have happen. One day it will be manifested on earth.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee by the valley of my mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azel; yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and Jehovah my God shall come, and all the holy ones with thee.
Zec 14:9 And Jehovah shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall Jehovah be one, and his name one.
The field is already defined in Matthew 13.38 as "The field is the world". If it were not so, God would have said otherwise in such close proximity to v.44 in explaining the field. Therefore that destroys your entire theory that the field is so narrowly Israel.
Now, the kingdom is hidden from the children of Israel - "And hid it again". After all they are rejecting Him and have a conspiracy going on against Him, so the Lord hides Himself (John 8.59, 12.36; Luke 4.30). That was the second "hid". The first "hid" in the parable refers to how God has hidden Himself from the time of creation until John the Baptist (see Matt. 13.35, 25.34). God hid Himself (see Prov. 25.2, Rom. 11.33) because of the sin of Israel.
SUMMARIZING YOUR MISTAKES Stanman
Treasure: the remnant of Israel, the lost sheep of the house of Israel
The millennium kings and priests (Rev. 20.6) are not Israel, but Gentiles or Jews who overcome in Christ (and not all those in the Church are overcomers), so our emphasis is the the millennial kingdom itself as THE TREASURE.
Field: the adulterous generation of the house of Israel, the nation of Israel
Clearly we have proven Christ buys the sins of believers and is a propriation for the world (2 Peter 2.1) which was quoted in Scripture as the world. So THE FIELD is the world.
Man: Jesus
Hey, you got one right.
Found Treasure: chose 12 sons of Abraham from the remnant to be shepherds of the kingdom
This is your Jewish focus, but God has even greater scope in view regarding the earth, not just a nation's peoples. Also, 12 sons is too small a focus as well. It really is about the 1000 years (Rev. 20.2-7) and the glory of it. Therefore, FOUND is the Lord's Work of the sowing, and THE TREASURE is still the glory of the millennial kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven.
Hid Treasure: after Israel's shepherds rejected Him as Messiah, He unveiled in Matthew 13 a new form of the kingdom, but hid the knowledge of it from the eyes and ears of unbelievers
Actually, this is not a new form of something, but wholly something else. The Messianic Kingdom will begin in the millennial kingdom, but so too will the millennial rewards for overcomers in Christ. The millennial glory to come on earth is HID from Israel and the world, FIELD.
Sold all He had: sacrificed Himself as the Lamb of God to pay the penalty of sin for all
You got two right! Way to go!
Bought the field: bought the whole world and Israel too.
Since Israel is in the whole world, you need not add on Israel for that is redundant. It is like saying I bought a bag of ten apples, then pull one out, and say, "hey look, I bought one apple". Additionally notice your contradiction, that above you say Israel is the field, and here you say the world and Israel are the field. Obviously that is incompatible; such are holes in your beliefs. The past hidding that was accomplished is with respect to Israel not being able to see the God of the earth also (that is the field of the world), so to hide again means to wait upon that day for it to happen for the whole world, as Israel rejects Christ.
The best advice I could give you is that God's scope is much larger than your scope. He sees the millennium and the path to get there. The glory is that treasure from the propriation of the whole world, not treasures of Israel - such is too earthly or Judaized faith. Just like anything in life, you can go too far one way or another, so you would be in error saying "It is impossible to overemphasize Israel". If that were true then there would be no such thing as Judaism today, Ebionites or Messianic Judaism. Silly.
What is your end-time view? What I have found, in order to help you, is if you first look at your end-time view, there you will find the flaw that leads to all the other flaws in your reasoning. There has to be a reason why you are Judaizing Christianity for there is something you are holding onto. Is it romanism or other form of historicalism? You give some indications, when you said "in the millennial age" is now. If this is so, herein lies your problem claiming something now that it is not in bad conscience. I will let you answer to that at your leisure.
The reason I brought this up is because in another post you said "they were beheaded" already in Rev. 20.4 in the Great Tribulation. I thought that odd to say because the Great Tribulation has not even started yet and you took offense when I said Rev. 20.4 also includes those martyred the past 20 centuries.
I am of the view that most historicalists are not born again, though some are; with a little more knowledge they will leave that idea. these unsaved historicalists have no means by which to accept a millennial peace on earth calling for that time now with hitler and other atrocities, certainly not a laying down together of the lamb and lion, or a reigning with the iron rod.
CONCLUSION: Before commenting, next time, read well what was already proven. It is as if you never read what was provided in the first post. You should have tried to refute something said as I have refuted your words when I read what you wrote. Seeing underneath your words, is power to my spirit. I can see some things you are holding onto you'll need to let go of. Specifically, that is more emphasis on the Christ founding work is needed, less of an Israeli focus, and more on the millennial kingdom glory and rewards for a Christian can lose the rewards of the millennium. Additionally, I am wondering what your end-time view is.
If we replace your words this is how your version of v.44 reads,
The Kingdom of Heaven is like 12 SONS OF ABRAHAM that JESUS CHRIST found hidden(?) in ADULTEROUS ISRAEL. JESUS CHRIST [hid] UNVEILED A NEW FORM OF KINGDOM, sold everything to buy the WORLD.
* Some things to note. You only deal with one hiding when there are two hidings, one past and one present. Also, The Kingdom of Heaven is not like 12 men. How narrow. Nor should the Kingdom of Heaven be found in Israel since they reject Christ. Too much about the earthly Jews, not enough about the overcoming rewards in the glory of the millennial kingdom to reign over all nations. Do you do this to blithe millennial rewards and accountability? Moreover, how do find a treasure of 12 men then hide the 12 men? And using different meanings for the same terms makes no sense. For example treasure is 12 sons of Abraham to you, then it is a new form of kingdom. Totally inconsistent. In the same way, the teasure is found in the field of Israel, then you say it is a bought field of something else, the world and Israel. Anyway you can see your inconsistencies. The field should stay the field and the treasure should stay the treasure. O, and how can the 12 men be found to be hidden, when they themselves did not even know they were to be chosen? But the millennial peace on earth is itself in the waiting to manifested on earth. This manifestation is concealed to the world (field) in the OT and in the NT, which Israel is found wanting.
Do you believe in accountability and rewards of the millennial kingdom to come?
Note the reason your idea was not even considered in the 3 incorrect views in the first post in this thread. Because of all the inconsistencies presented here it is not even worth considering. It was due to the fact that Israel has already been rejected in Matt. 11 and 12, so we move then onto chapter 13 which is the sphere or boundary of the outward appearance of the kingdom of heaven, which is itself including the Church since the Church are those who have the ability to produce the conduct of Matt. 5-7 and are eligible to receive rewards in the millennial kingdom. The tares are not. So the matter of what is considered a teasure should not be anything but of grandest proportions, that being the 1000 years of the millennial kingdom to come and its glory on earth.
A lesson in life. After you refuse someone as Jesus refused Israel in ch. 11,12, you don't go on to next describe the Kingdom of Heaven as being like one refused (i.e. Israel), that is in your words, found in ADULTEROUS ISRAEL. That in fact sounds evil to describe the Kingdom of Heaven in such a way. Nor should one describe the Kingdom upon any other nation. That is why Matthew 13 treats the Kingdom of Heaven like the treasure (glory of millennial peace) hidden to the world, that is, not avaible on earth in the OT period for Israel only knows a God of heaven, not of earth anymore as was the case in the theocracy that ended with judges. But in the NT it is yet hid again because it is being rejected by Israel as Christ buys propriation through the cross and the sowing work of His to reach men's hearts unto the millennial kingdom to come. "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done".
Why the hostility towards a millennial peace to come? I know that post-millennialist fantastically think the tares will one day turn into wheat; the amillennialist think the Great Tribulation is behind them so they don't think they have to face the solemn warning at the end of this age for the last generation. Blunting it! Preterists are so romanistic and earthly it makes a mockery of Christ's return. Each though treats this time now as being the millennium of hitler, which is no millennial peace on earth that God longs for.
The Kingdom of Heaven begins with John the Baptist, not the 12 apostles, so that additionally puts to rest your idea Stanman. It is not about the 12 apostles, but the treasure of the glory of the millennial peace in view that Christ is looking ontwards. That is the objective. And the new city is exactly what Abraham was looking for too. Not 12 men. It is the 3rd aspect of the kingdom of heaven that you are missing out on (regarding accountability and rewards as well as discipline in outer darkness loss of rewards), that of reigning with Christ in the millennial kingdom to come with an iron rod, certainly not happening now. The aspect of the iron rod today is not in place yet.
The Kingdom of Heaven is hidden, yet here on earth as shown in v.44, but the pearl which is the beauty of the church here on earth, which is not hidden, and definitely open, is a testimony to the world in vv.45,46. The Church is related to the Lord; the kingdom of heaven is related to men. The Church pertains to the giving of life; the kingdom of heaven pertains to the receiving of disciples. The Church speaks of position and grace; the kingdom of heaven speaks of responsibility. So in v.44 the kingdom of heaven's coming millennial kingdom glory on earth is seen: the TREASURE; in vv.45,46 the beauty of the temporary Church - the PEARL - is seen that the Kingdom of Heaven includes within itself.
Praise the Lord!
SUMMARIZING YOUR MISTAKES Stanman
When someone writes a different opinion, it would be gracious of you not to refer to them as mistakes.
QUOTE:
Treasure: the remnant of Israel, the lost sheep of the house of Israel
The millennium kings and priests (Rev. 20.6) are not Israel, but Gentiles or Jews who overcome in Christ (and not all those in the Church are overcomers), so our emphasis is the the millennial kingdom itself as THE TREASURE.So why then would it be hidden? The Jews knew about. Doesn't wash.
QUOTE:
Field: the adulterous generation of the house of Israel, the nation of Israel
Clearly we have proven Christ buys the sins of believers and is a propriation for the world (2 Peter 2.1) which was quoted in Scripture as the world. So THE FIELD is the world.You are hung up on the world, a field can also represent Israel just as the earth is Israel and the sea is the gentiels.
QUOTE:
Man: Jesus
Hey, you got one right.You are so generous.
QUOTE:
Found Treasure: chose 12 sons of Abraham from the remnant to be shepherds of the kingdom
This is your Jewish focus, but God has even greater scope in view regarding the earth, not just a nation's peoples. Also, 12 sons is too small a focus as well. It really is about the 1000 years (Rev. 20.2-7) and the glory of it. Therefore, FOUND is the Lord's Work of the sowing, and THE TREASURE is still the glory of the millennial kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven.It's not my focus, it's the focus of the Bible. Israel is not "just a nation's peoples," they were a Chosen People. And the remnant is His treasure. The Twelve Apostles eventually will form the twelve gates of New Jerusalem, but first will be shepherds in the millennial kingdom.
QUOTE:
Hid Treasure: after Israel's shepherds rejected Him as Messiah, He unveiled in Matthew 13 a new form of the kingdom, but hid the knowledge of it from the eyes and ears of unbelievers
Actually, this is not a new form of something, but wholly something else. The Messianic Kingdom will begin in the millennial kingdom, but so too will the millennial rewards for overcomers in Christ. The millennial glory to come on earth is HID from Israel and the world, FIELD. This doesn't wash either, the glory of the kingdom is Jesus Himself, so why would He hide it and then find it? He came to earth to seek and to save the lost sheep of Israel, so the remnant was His goal, His treasure. First it was hidden among the people of the nation, then Jesus hid it in the new form of the kingdom which was unknown and a mystery to the prophets. And it was not limited to the twelve, they were the good seed that He planted to grow His kingdom.
QUOTE:
Sold all He had: sacrificed Himself as the Lamb of God to pay the penalty of sin for all
You got two right! Way to go! I am humbled.
QUOTE:
Bought the field: bought the whole world and Israel too.
Since Israel is in the whole world, you need not add on Israel for that is redundant. It is like saying I bought a bag of ten apples, then pull one out, and say, "hey look, I bought one apple". Additionally notice your contradiction, that above you say Israel is the field, and here you say the world and Israel are the field. Obviously that is incompatible; such are holes in your beliefs. Repetition is a hole in my belief? You are a tough man. And why do you say the Bible is incompatible when it uses a field for a symbol of both the world and Israel? The only obvious thing is that you are too narrow in focus here. The past hidding that was accomplished is with respect to Israel not being able to see the God of the earth also (that is the field of the world), so to hide again means to wait upon that day for it to happen for the whole world, as Israel rejects Christ. Wrong again, that is absurd. You say that Jesus was hidden from them? Undeniable, but it doesn't fit the metaphor...it would say that Jesus found Himself in a field. Let's be reasonable, shall we?
StanMan,
Notice that your opinions were mistakes, and more than that, they had quite the confidence behind them as further noted by your commentary here too. Therefore, instead of letting you relish in them, stronger language was most apt to describe them as mistakes, for your benefit; otherwise I would be negligent by the Holy Spirit in not helping you. And you would not be helped as much since then you would not have identified what those mistakes were. This is yet still gracious, for I have not said anything harsher. However, as your posts continue, your tone is getting worse. Why don't you answer when I ask you what your end-time view is?
So why then would it be hidden? The Jews knew about. Doesn't wash.
Why ask me why it was hidden, when it was already said, why it was hidden? That doesn't wash. It shows you are not reading as we go along, just speaking. It is as though your mind is darkened. Reluctantly, I will say it again, but the full proof, please go and read it. In the OT God's Kingdom was hidden to Israel because of their sin. When Christ came, it was hidden again because they rejected Him. Pretty simple stuff.
You are hung up on the world, a field can also represent Israel just as the earth is Israel and the sea is the gentiels.
Jesus was hung up on the world too for He said "the field is the world" (v.38a). Why so hostile to Christ's word? Don't you realize you are changing His very word, or at least trying to? In the same vein as your ego-centricism you mentioned about yourself earlier, here we have your myopicness towards Israel, and not a more expansive view that Christ said that the field is the world, also in v.44. Therefore, God is looking towards a millennial peace, the 1000 year reign of Christ to come. The question is are you? Would you call yourself a Christian? If so do you affiliate yourself with any group or denomination?
To say again, so there is no doubt, the field, which is the world, has not manifested yet the millennial piece of the treasure which is the glory of the kingdom of heaven that shall come; not just now in spiritual conduct (chapters 5-7), nor just outward appearance today (ch.13), but also in the millennial peace. I find lots of people are not saved because they don't want this by treating the millennial kingdom as historical, even though it is in the 3rd last chapter of the entire Bible. Obviously, that is a problem. They reveal themselves having a strange spirit about them.
This doesn't wash either, the glory of the kingdom is Jesus Himself, so why would He hide it and then find it? He came to earth to seek and to save the lost sheep of Israel, so the remnant was His goal, His treasure. First it was hidden among the people of the nation, then Jesus hid it in the new form of the kingdom which was unknown and a mystery to the prophets. And it was not limited to the twelve, they were the good seed that He planted to grow His kingdom.
The glory of the kingdom is Christ, for all comes back to Christ; but what is the kingdom of heaven and its glory in particulars? It is the spiritual conduct (Matt. 5-7), outward appearnces or boundary of it today (Matt. 13), and it is also a reigning in the millennial kingdom. Pretty simple. The glory of the Kingdom in Christ is for Him to return and walk with us and reward us. In so doing it gives Him great pleasure to finally return. He wants to walk with man made in His image out of His glory in creating us. God's kingdom is hidden from the Jews, and God does the hiding because His chosen ones reject Him, so He has no choice in His righteousness, that you would then be rejecting, to not yet manifest the glory of the kingdom (treasure) in a millennial peace until the fullness of the gentiles come in. Israel was an aim to a greater goal, that of Abraham's which is the new city, even in the new earth. Israel is the center of that sphere of the old city on earth in the millennium to come. The New Jerusalem of earth prevents the New Jerusalem above from coming down, since you can't have both at the same time. God did not come to save just Israel. He came to save the world. You have a false teaching of just Israel. Israel is the nation God first revealed Himself too for His greater purpose. He had to start somewhere in redemption of the fallen Adamic race. It is good that you accept that the teasure is no longer now just the 12 men, but it is greater, greater than Israel, greater than athe pearl of great price (Church); it is in fact the glory of the millennial kingdom whereby God will return in Christ to reign for 1000 years in a millennial peace. This is the glory hidden in the OT for Jews ended up only accepting God as a "God of heaven" not of earth. And when the kingdom of heaven first began with John the baptist, the kingdom was hidden again on account of the Jews rejecting Christ. It could have arrived on earth for all eyes to see. Therefore, we have yet to find a kingdom of heaven gloriously in a millennial peace yet. Pretty simple. So you see this is not some new form of something before. In the OT we see the Kingdom of God from eternity past, which is more deeply inner spiritual than the outward kingdom of heaven, and will go onto eternity future. The kingdom of heaven ends with the millennial peace ending. But the kingdom of God continues on. The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are the same Kingdom, except they are viewed from different perspectives. They are both the same in terms of Matt. 5-7 spiritual reality and conduct and Matt. 13 in its outward sphere. They only differ in that the K of G is deeper spiritually. Do not spiritualize the glory inordinately of Christ only without a millennial peace, otherwise you will miss the millennial kingdom to come. Historicalists are inordinately allegorists trying to fit squares into round holes.
It's not my focus, it's the focus of the Bible. Israel is not "just a nation's peoples," they were a Chosen People. And the remnant is His treasure. The Twelve Apostles eventually will form the twelve gates of New Jerusalem, but first will be shepherds in the millennial kingdom.
The treasure is the millennial kingdom since the field is the world, Jesus says so. The twelve apostles are not going to be gates. They are in memory by name the 12 foundations of the wall silly (Rev. 21.14). The 12 gates are in memory of the 12 tribes of Israel for all those that were saved, since pearls are what Christ goes out to collect from all dispensations, all the saved since Adam (v.21). Your focus becomes dangerous when it is to circumvent the millennial peace for Satan does not want that. Not once have you mentioned this as what God longs for. Israel is the chosen race, meaning, the nation God first revealed Himself. Since Matt. 13 is describing the outward sphere of the Kingdom of Heaven, that sphere has in it also those unsaved who have the appearnce of being in the church, but its aim is the millennial peace. In it now are the unsaved Israelites who are Judaizers of Christianity calling themselves Christians, perhaps such as yourself, of which only a remnant in this dispensation will ever enter the millennial kingdom, and that is the last one that remains that finally. That is an indication of how bad Israel's condition is that it needs to wait for Christ to actually step down on the mount of olives to accept Him. In the millennial kingdom to come we will be more than just shepherds. We will be kings and priests receiving rewards, given to overcomers in Christ, while non-overcomers in Christ spend time in outer darkness loss of rewards. It is as though you are still hanging around in Matt. 1-12, and have not come into the Church seen in Matthew 13 that is in the Kingdom of Heaven. That's unfortunate.
Repetition is a hole in my belief? You are a tough man. And why do you say the Bible is incompatible when it uses a field for a symbol of both the world and Israel? The only obvious thing is that you are too narrow in focus here.
No. Repetition is not a hole. Changing the meaning terms as you go along is the hole. You are a tough man. The reason you do this is you are trying to fit things where they do not belong. It takes a tough man with a seared conscience to do that without considering the error being made. The Bible never describes Israel as the field ever. Do you see how this is just your imagination? In your toughness, you seem to be hostile towards a millennial peace, and that hostility bears out in this hardness thinking the field is Israel, not every speaking up for a peace. The verses provided for you already, that you blithe over, clearly indicate nothing about the field being Israel, only the world. Israel is of the earth, but that is not an expression of the field. You can't sense that intuitively can you? See the verses already supplied. The only obvious conclusion is that you are too narrow focused focused on the just one nation, and not the millennial peace which encompasses ALL NATIONS with Israel as the center in its remnant in the last generation of this age.
Wrong again, that is absurd. You say that Jesus was hidden from them? Undeniable, but it doesn't fit the metaphor...it would say that Jesus found Himself in a field. Let's be reasonable, shall we?
I didn't say Jesus was hidden. I said God of earth was hidden unto a millennial peace. Children of Israel could only see a God of heaven, not of earth. This is proven as already stated, that God is not referred to as God of the earth after Israel was taken captive to babylon. Why do you hate the millennial peace glory to come? Satan does as much. What is your end-time view? Is it amillennialism or preterism perhaps? Why avoid this question? You realize at least 95% of historicalists are unregenerated because they don't care for a millennial peace on earth. Sounds evil eh? Indeed.
Anyway you sound like you are just being billigerent, culminating in this last comment of yours saying I said something I did not say about Jesus which would be the sin of bearing false witness outwardly and in your heart; which is why you could not show it or quote it.
My prayers go out to Stanman. You have a battle ahead of you.
I have absorbed what you said and explained above why it is in error, pulling it apart piece by piece above, and rendinger your position untenable. You are really left naked with nothing.
Since you don't see the errors I have shown you made, that is itself doublespeak on your own part, showing you have not absorbed what I have said; of course, it will be judged by that false judgment of yours that needs to come back upon you. Actually what you are really revealing is that untruth in your heart: altering the pearl of great price speaking against the Church, and a treasure that is not the millennial kingdom glory. You have your eye on other things, like Israel inordinately so. But there is a reason you do this as we see below. Nothing is new under the son. You have finally exposed your real position.
May I suggest an alternative for you: get rid of these untruths in your heart. If God does not want them there, why do you hold onto them? I know, you have shown me in no uncertain terms: when you said " gathering does not stop at the rapture of the church but continues during the tribulation". This overassumes first rapture of the Church and not just the overcomers of the Church (Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36). What I have found, is under pretribber onlyism (that you revealed about yourself in other thread) is that what is behind all these antics of yours is the overassuming view of believing you will be raptured at first rapture having nothing to do with readiness.
The consequence of this of course is that when you find yourself in the Great Tribulation, you will not realize it, because you assumed it could not happen; so, you take the mark of the beast, not thinking it is the mark, and that is that. That is the sin of pretribulation rapture onlyism.
Watchman Nee goes into the details of this problem here,
II, This first school [PRETTRIBBER ONLYISTS] has not only no scriptural evidence but bases too much of its arguments merely on assumptions. For such a weighty problem like rapture, it should certainly not be decided on mere assumptions. Its assumptions are as follows.
D. The disciples in the four Gospels are Jews. It is to them, that is to say, to the Jews, that the Lord exhorts to watch and pray. Since we Christians will be raptured anyway, there is no need for us to be exhorted to watch and pray [MAJOR PRIDE]. We go to the Epistles for our inspiration. However, the disciples are Christians, and they too are in the church. Are not the disciples called Christians (Acts 11.26; cf. Matt. 28.19)?
E. Adherents of this first school of interpretation do not regard much of the four Gospels and the Acts as written for Gentile believers. C. I. Scofield, for example, maintained that the so-called Sermon on the Mount is exclusively for the Jews. They forget, though, the words in Matthew 28.20 (“teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you” ) and in John 14.26 (“and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you”). They base all their teachings on the words of the apostle Paul, whereas they should remember what Paul himself said in Colossians 3: “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly” (v.16).
F. “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world...; and then shall the end come” (Matt. 24.14). They suggest that the gospel of the kingdom is different from the gospel of grace and that the gospel of the kingdom is only preached during the time when the Lord was on earth and immediately before the Great Tribulation. Since we are saved by the gospel of grace, it is their contention that the gospel of grace need not be preached to the whole world before we are raptured. Thus, the gospel of the kingdom will only be preached again ten or twenty years before the Tribulation. Yet the gospel of the kingdom is the gospel of the kingdom of God, and the gospel of grace is the gospel of the grace of God. According to Acts 20.24-25, “the gospel of the grace of God” spoken of in verse 24 is none other than “the preaching” of “the kingdom” mentioned in verse 25. Also, please note from Acts 1 that the Lord after His resurrection spoke to the disciples “the things concerning the kingdom of God” (v.3).
G. They view the work of Christ on earth as fulfilling the ministry towards the circumcised, thus showing a definite Jewish background; and therefore whatever is commanded in the Gospels is not for us Christians but is for the Jews. Let me say in response, however, that the dispensation of Grace also begins with Christ. Please read the following passages: (1) Matthew 11.13-14 and Luke 16.16 - where the phrase “from that time” in Luke means from the time of Christ; (2) Acts 10.36-37 and 13.25-27 - where we see that “the word of this salvation” (13.26) begins to be preached at the time of John the Baptist; (3) Mark 1.1-15 and John 1.1-15 - from which we learn that “the gospel of Jesus Christ” (Mark 1.1 ) commences with John the Baptist; (4) Luke 4.17-21 - which verses describe the gospel of grace in a number of ways and concludes by recording the Lord Jesus as saying: “Today hath this scripture been fulfilled” (v.21); (5) John 4.23 - wherein the phrase “and now is” indicates that during the dispensation of Grace those who worship God worship Him in spirit and truth (whereas under the dispensation of Law, men apprehended God in the flesh and according to rituals); and (6) John 5.24-25 - which verses tell us that what is included in the phrase “and now is” is the gospel of grace.
“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a treasure hidden [past participle] in the field; which a man found [past tense], and hid [past] ; and in his joy he goeth [present] and selleth [present] all that he hath [present], and buyeth [present] that field”—Most commentators interpret this parable in one of the following ways:
(1) The treasure is Christ, the field is the gospel. So Christ hides the gospel. The man is the sinner. He forsakes all to follow the Lord. But we would like to ask the following questions: (a) The gospel is to manifest Christ, how can it then be hidden instead? (b) Where in the Scriptures does “field” ever point to the gospel? © What can a sinner buy? (d) Is Christ an article of merchandise which costs something? (e) “Found” and “hid” here are totally at variance with the facts. (f) How do you hide the gospel? (g) If the gospel may be bought, it no longer is the gospel.
(2) The field is the Bible, the treasure is salvation, and the man is the sinner. Hence salvation is hidden in the Bible, and when man finds salvation he forsakes all to obtain it. Again, we would ask some questions and make some observations: (a) Does the Bible reveal or hide salvation? (b) Does man find salvation or is salvation preached to men? © Must one pay a price to know the Bible? (d) As a matter of fact, it does not require such a great price to purchase a Bible. (e) There is no guarantee that one would gain Christ after he has purchased a Bible anyway. (f) And why should anyone hide Christ after he has come to know Him? Why should he be afraid of being discovered by somebody else?
(3) The field is the world, the treasure is the church, and the man is Christ. Having seen the church, Christ forsakes all to buy her. Nevertheless, we would like to inquire into the following matters: (a) When and where did Christ discover the church while He was on earth? (b) Or if the treasure signifies the glory of the church, then while the Lord was on earth when did the church ever manifest her glory? © Or if the treasure speaks of sinners, the Lord met sinners everywhere he went and there was therefore no need to find them. (d) Why should Christ hide the sinners once He has found them?
Now if the above interpretations are faulty at various points, how then should we explain the parable of the treasure? Since the Lord has not himself explained it, we must interpret it by the use of other Scriptures. In 1 Chronicles 27.25 the word “treasures” is an expression for the glory of the kingdom of David. In Ecclesiastes the term “treasure” is used to show forth the abundance of Solomon’s kingdom. The glory of a kingdom lies in its treasures. Even in the time of the Hebraic theocracy—that is to say, from Moses to the last of the judges—treasures represented glory. When the nation was strong, she kept her treasures; while she was weak, her treasures were taken as spoil.
“Field” is the world (see v.38). Why is the treasure hidden in the field? The glory of the kingdom of God has never been manifested on earth. Especially after the Jews were taken captive to Babylon, God was called the God of heaven. Men could not see that God actually ruled the universe. Even before the Captivity, the glory of God’s kingdom was hidden to all eyes except to a relatively few. It was not unveiled appreciably until the time of John the Baptist, who began to proclaim that the kingdom of heaven was near. How long was the glory of the kingdom of heaven hidden? From the time of creation until John the Baptist (see Matt. 13.35, 25.34). Who had hidden the glory of the kingdom of heaven? God himself had (see Prov. 25.2, Rom. 11.33). The field is the world as explained in verse 38, else the Lord would certainly have said otherwise here. All this goes to show that in the future the kingdom of heaven will be connected with the world, for the kingdom of heaven shall one day be manifested on earth (see Zech. 14.5,9; and also Ps. 8. 6-9—this latter Scripture being a psalm of the kingdom). The domain of the future kingdom of heaven shall be the earth (though its rule shall indeed be from heaven), for the world will not be destroyed until after the millennial kingdom is ended.
“Which a man found”—This refers to the work of Christ on earth. During the days of confusion in the world, there came one who cried in the wilderness, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand”; and both the Lord and His disciples proclaimed the same message. The power (as manifested in healings and miracles) as well as the teaching of the kingdom of heaven were even then being made manifest (the word “found” in verse 44 actually means to have discovered without the necessity of earnest seeking). The Lord first discovered it; none before Him had even unearthed it. Therefore, the man here is Christ. Neither angels nor prophets could have disclosed it (see Heb. 2.5-8). And if the angels could not disclose it, who else but Christ could?
“And hid”—All actions which occurred before and including this one are cast in the past tense, indicating that the “hidden” and the “found” and the “hid” are all accomplished facts. The actions which follow in the verse are the things the Lord will do thereafter. But why is “hid” again mentioned? Because the Jews have rejected Christ and His kingdom (please recall that this rejection had already begun in the time of chapter 11 and is now fully manifested in the time of chapter 12). For this reason the glory of the kingdom of heaven is now hidden. Henceforth, the Lord does not perform many mighty works among the Jews (and if He does, He does so only for individuals). He also hides himself (see John 8.59, 12.36; Luke 4.30). And why does He hide? Because something is wrong (which points to the rejection of the Jews), and because there is now danger (which indicates the conspiracy of the Jews). He hides himself from the Jews as a nation, not from individuals or from His disciples. He may reject the nation of the Jews, but He never rejects any individual.
“In his joy”—For verses on the joy of the glory of the kingdom we must turn to Luke 10.17-20, 21: the latter verse being the only place in the Gospels where the joy of the Lord is recorded.
“He goeth”—Christ goes to the cross at Jerusalem.
“And selleth all that he hath”—A price must be paid. It costs Christ His life. When the Lord came to this world, He had already forsaken the greater part of His possessions (yet not all). Soon at the cross, He is to sacrifice all, even His life.
“And buyeth that field”—Buy (see Acts 20.28, 2 Peter 2.1, Rev. 5. 9). The purpose in buying is for the treasure in the field. The scope of the purchase is the world. According to 2 Peter 2.1, even the unsaved are also bought. Sin-offering is for believers, propitiation is for the whole world (1 John 2.2). God expects great things on earth, and so He purchases it. The future kingdom is connected with the earth, because the kingdom shall be on earth (see Rev. 11.15, Matt. 6.10). The Lord’s heart is also upon the earth (see Matt. 6.21); therefore, He will come again to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth. - Nee
the Treasure in the field..
The man had to buy the whole field get ''the Treasure''.
sold all he had,
in those days it meant [even to the extent] of selling his family into slavery.
many people write about this, have all basic ideas on it... i have read many versions
but only the Holy Spirit can reveal what the real meaning is.
No-one would believe it, unless they are first- prepared for this revelation
'' I shall build My church and the gates of hell/grave shall not prevail''.
somewhere in those words is this treasure.
The Holy Spirit has just revealed the meaning in the first post. Study it and let the Holy Spirit testify that it is correct.
1) treasure is the glory of the kingdom (millennial kingdom) yet to be manifested on the earth
2) man is Christ
3) field is the world
4) Christ selling all is His death on the cross.
5) hidden because Jews don't get it, nor does the world
This is in agreement with "again" v.45,46 except that the latter verses are talking about the beauty of the church (pearl of great price).
This analysis is better than the first 3 popular versions, for sure.
I have researched this parable and all of Matt 13 parables quite extensively. Not that I'm any
recognized expert in the field, I just let the Bible interpret itself.
This is what I have uncovered:
Treasure: the remnant of Israel, the lost sheep of the house of Israel
Field: the adulterous generation of the house of Israel, the nation of Israel
Man: Jesus
Found Treasure: chose 12 sons of Abraham from the remnant to be shepherds of the kingdom
Hid Treasure: after Israel's shepherds rejected Him as Messiah, He unveiled in Matthew 13 a new form of the kingdom, but hid the knowledge of it from the eyes and ears of unbelievers
Sold all He had: sacrificed Himself as the Lamb of God to pay the penalty of sin for all
Bought the field: bought the whole world and Israel too.
I can expand this further if anyone is interested.
StanMan
These things are already proven in the opening post.
I only have this one observation, that you make this too much about Israel which is suppose to be a book for the church regarding the treasure. This mistake can happen when you do not distinguish between the Messianic Kingdom (being at the center of all nations) and the Millennial Rewards which both exists concurrently during the 1000 years; and rewards being just for those who overcome in Christ whether Jew or Gentile.
In this regard you are slightly overemphasizing Israel here as being the treasure when it is not.
Otherwise we agree on the rest.
Troy, my friend, you are too hasty to think you have proved something.
Don't go where angels fear to tread.
Here's some more to chew on:
Indeed, the Apostle Paul was enthusiastic to report that all children of God, not just the Hebrews, will be heirs to this promise, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal 3:26- 29). Thus, Paul affirms that God’s promise to Abraham would be fulfilled in those gentiles who put on Christ.
The gospel to the gentiles had a foundation in Hebrew prophecy. The seed of Messiah would be inherited from King David and would include the gentiles, “And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it all the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.” (Isa 11:10). It has been prophesied many times that a people for His name would be gathered out of the gentile nations, “And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.” (Zech 2:11). It was the sum and substance of New Covenant blessings, as was made clear in Hebrews:
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. . . . For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:6-8,10-13)
There is only one kingdom of promise...the millennial one. The other one you mischaracterize as a kingdom of the "church" is simply what Jesus described as the kingdom of heaven in Matthew. This was in fact an unknown phase of the kingdom crafted for one purpose–to gather out a special people from the gentiles in order to fulfill God’s promises to Abraham and David, “God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name...After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord.” (Acts 15:14-18).
And there lots more to support this.
How can Israel be overemphasized? Israel was the apple of God's eye, His chosen people. When Jesus came, He said it was to seek and to save. Before Matthew 12, He came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Once the shepherds of the nation of Israel refused to receive Him as Messiah, He withdrew His offer of the promised kingdom and offered an unknown kingdom which He defined in Matthew 13 and called it the kingdom of heaven. He turned the kingdom over to His disciples (all Jews), making them shepherds of the mystery kingdom of heaven, which He now rules from the right hand of the Father in heaven. This kingdom was formed by Jesus, given to the disciples under a New Covenant in His blood, and commanded them to go and make disciples of all nations. The purpose of the New Covenant kingdom was for God to call a special people for His name out of the gentile nations, which is obviously the Pearl of Great Price. Then to graft this people into the root of Israel and make them all spiritual sons of Abraham to rule with Him in the promised kingdom to come. Thus the treasure (the remnant of Israel) and the great pearl (gentiles) are joined together as one in Christ (no longer Jew and gentile) in the millennial age.
It is impossible to overemphasize Israel when they were the people that were promised a king forever to sit on the throne of David. This promise was never abrogated and still stands. Anyone who says they love their neighbor and does not love Israel, whom God loves, cannot justify this position before God. The whole Bible was written about the Jews and their High Priestly King. The problem is that the contemporary church has lost touch with its Jewish roots, which is a form of apostasy. The first century church knew this very well.
Peace and love,
StanMan
StanMan,
Your first post adds nothing one way or the other, so it is not helpful. Twice the treasure is hidden, once in the past, once in the present. This hiding was in the OT, and again in the NT; hidden from Israel and the world. Or in other words not manifested on the earth in the OT, and still today, not manifested in fullness and not available to the Jews either for rejecting Christ, hidden to them. Think of the FIELD as earth which is a much more wonderful scope than just one nation.
You made some error thinking I think that there is some kingdom of the church. I never used that phrase. The Church age ends at the end of this dispensation of grace, so after that we enter a new dispensation without the Church. The Kingdom of Heaven is 3 things: (1) outward appearances according to Matt. 13, (2) spiritual reality or conduct of Matt. 5-7, and (3) reward of reigning in the millennium (not the millennium itself). The Church is in the Kingdom of Heaven, but not all all those in the Kingdom of Heaven are in the Church, since there are unsaved tares masquerading in the kingdom of Heaven as if they are in the Church.
You were too quick not to read carefully the proof already given. I think you are Judaizing Christianity for whatever reason that may be. May I ask what your end-times persuasion is? The Lord's heart is upon the earth; therefore, He will come again to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth. Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Psa 8:6 Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; Thou hast put all things under his feet:
Psa 8:7 All sheep and oxen, Yea, and the beasts of the field,
Psa 8:8 The birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, Whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, How excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Now it is true Israel will receive her promised remnant as the center of all nations in the Messianic Kingdom. My love for the little brother, Christians and the Jews is immense. However, one nation is not God's treasure, even if this nation is the first nation God revealed Himself to. After all, when the millennial kingdom ends, nations will be done away with also. This nation of Israel will not reign as kings and priests in the millennial kingdom, for that reward is given to all those since Adam and Eve who are overcomers in Christ according to Rev. 20.4 from each dispensation,
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
"Treasure" (1 Chron. 27.25) is an expression of the glory of the kingdom of David. Same in Ecclesistes for Solomon's kingdom. Glory is definitely the emphasis here. When a nation is strong she has her treasures. Since the glory of the kingdom of heaven has been hidden from the Jews and it has been hidden on earth, this is what we long for to have happen. One day it will be manifested on earth.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee by the valley of my mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azel; yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and Jehovah my God shall come, and all the holy ones with thee.
Zec 14:9 And Jehovah shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall Jehovah be one, and his name one.
The field is already defined in Matthew 13.38 as "The field is the world". If it were not so, God would have said otherwise in such close proximity to v.44 in explaining the field. Therefore that destroys your entire theory that the field is so narrowly Israel.
Now, the kingdom is hidden from the children of Israel - "And hid it again". After all they are rejecting Him and have a conspiracy going on against Him, so the Lord hides Himself (John 8.59, 12.36; Luke 4.30). That was the second "hid". The first "hid" in the parable refers to how God has hidden Himself from the time of creation until John the Baptist (see Matt. 13.35, 25.34). God hid Himself (see Prov. 25.2, Rom. 11.33) because of the sin of Israel.
SUMMARIZING YOUR MISTAKES Stanman
Treasure: the remnant of Israel, the lost sheep of the house of Israel
The millennium kings and priests (Rev. 20.6) are not Israel, but Gentiles or Jews who overcome in Christ (and not all those in the Church are overcomers), so our emphasis is the the millennial kingdom itself as THE TREASURE.
Field: the adulterous generation of the house of Israel, the nation of Israel
Clearly we have proven Christ buys the sins of believers and is a propriation for the world (2 Peter 2.1) which was quoted in Scripture as the world. So THE FIELD is the world.
Man: Jesus
Hey, you got one right.
Found Treasure: chose 12 sons of Abraham from the remnant to be shepherds of the kingdom
This is your Jewish focus, but God has even greater scope in view regarding the earth, not just a nation's peoples. Also, 12 sons is too small a focus as well. It really is about the 1000 years (Rev. 20.2-7) and the glory of it. Therefore, FOUND is the Lord's Work of the sowing, and THE TREASURE is still the glory of the millennial kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven.
Hid Treasure: after Israel's shepherds rejected Him as Messiah, He unveiled in Matthew 13 a new form of the kingdom, but hid the knowledge of it from the eyes and ears of unbelievers
Actually, this is not a new form of something, but wholly something else. The Messianic Kingdom will begin in the millennial kingdom, but so too will the millennial rewards for overcomers in Christ. The millennial glory to come on earth is HID from Israel and the world, FIELD.
Sold all He had: sacrificed Himself as the Lamb of God to pay the penalty of sin for all
You got two right! Way to go!
Bought the field: bought the whole world and Israel too.
Since Israel is in the whole world, you need not add on Israel for that is redundant. It is like saying I bought a bag of ten apples, then pull one out, and say, "hey look, I bought one apple". Additionally notice your contradiction, that above you say Israel is the field, and here you say the world and Israel are the field. Obviously that is incompatible; such are holes in your beliefs. The past hidding that was accomplished is with respect to Israel not being able to see the God of the earth also (that is the field of the world), so to hide again means to wait upon that day for it to happen for the whole world, as Israel rejects Christ.
The best advice I could give you is that God's scope is much larger than your scope. He sees the millennium and the path to get there. The glory is that treasure from the propriation of the whole world, not treasures of Israel - such is too earthly or Judaized faith. Just like anything in life, you can go too far one way or another, so you would be in error saying "It is impossible to overemphasize Israel". If that were true then there would be no such thing as Judaism today, Ebionites or Messianic Judaism. Silly.
What is your end-time view? What I have found, in order to help you, is if you first look at your end-time view, there you will find the flaw that leads to all the other flaws in your reasoning. There has to be a reason why you are Judaizing Christianity for there is something you are holding onto. Is it romanism or other form of historicalism? You give some indications, when you said "in the millennial age" is now. If this is so, herein lies your problem claiming something now that it is not in bad conscience. I will let you answer to that at your leisure.
The reason I brought this up is because in another post you said "they were beheaded" already in Rev. 20.4 in the Great Tribulation. I thought that odd to say because the Great Tribulation has not even started yet and you took offense when I said Rev. 20.4 also includes those martyred the past 20 centuries.
I am of the view that most historicalists are not born again, though some are; with a little more knowledge they will leave that idea. these unsaved historicalists have no means by which to accept a millennial peace on earth calling for that time now with hitler and other atrocities, certainly not a laying down together of the lamb and lion, or a reigning with the iron rod.
CONCLUSION: Before commenting, next time, read well what was already proven. It is as if you never read what was provided in the first post. You should have tried to refute something said as I have refuted your words when I read what you wrote. Seeing underneath your words, is power to my spirit. I can see some things you are holding onto you'll need to let go of. Specifically, that is more emphasis on the Christ founding work is needed, less of an Israeli focus, and more on the millennial kingdom glory and rewards for a Christian can lose the rewards of the millennium. Additionally, I am wondering what your end-time view is.
If we replace your words this is how your version of v.44 reads,
The Kingdom of Heaven is like 12 SONS OF ABRAHAM that JESUS CHRIST found hidden(?) in ADULTEROUS ISRAEL. JESUS CHRIST [hid] UNVEILED A NEW FORM OF KINGDOM, sold everything to buy the WORLD.
* Some things to note. You only deal with one hiding when there are two hidings, one past and one present. Also, The Kingdom of Heaven is not like 12 men. How narrow. Nor should the Kingdom of Heaven be found in Israel since they reject Christ. Too much about the earthly Jews, not enough about the overcoming rewards in the glory of the millennial kingdom to reign over all nations. Do you do this to blithe millennial rewards and accountability? Moreover, how do find a treasure of 12 men then hide the 12 men? And using different meanings for the same terms makes no sense. For example treasure is 12 sons of Abraham to you, then it is a new form of kingdom. Totally inconsistent. In the same way, the teasure is found in the field of Israel, then you say it is a bought field of something else, the world and Israel. Anyway you can see your inconsistencies. The field should stay the field and the treasure should stay the treasure. O, and how can the 12 men be found to be hidden, when they themselves did not even know they were to be chosen? But the millennial peace on earth is itself in the waiting to manifested on earth. This manifestation is concealed to the world (field) in the OT and in the NT, which Israel is found wanting.
Do you believe in accountability and rewards of the millennial kingdom to come?
Note the reason your idea was not even considered in the 3 incorrect views in the first post in this thread. Because of all the inconsistencies presented here it is not even worth considering. It was due to the fact that Israel has already been rejected in Matt. 11 and 12, so we move then onto chapter 13 which is the sphere or boundary of the outward appearance of the kingdom of heaven, which is itself including the Church since the Church are those who have the ability to produce the conduct of Matt. 5-7 and are eligible to receive rewards in the millennial kingdom. The tares are not. So the matter of what is considered a teasure should not be anything but of grandest proportions, that being the 1000 years of the millennial kingdom to come and its glory on earth.
A lesson in life. After you refuse someone as Jesus refused Israel in ch. 11,12, you don't go on to next describe the Kingdom of Heaven as being like one refused (i.e. Israel), that is in your words, found in ADULTEROUS ISRAEL. That in fact sounds evil to describe the Kingdom of Heaven in such a way. Nor should one describe the Kingdom upon any other nation. That is why Matthew 13 treats the Kingdom of Heaven like the treasure (glory of millennial peace) hidden to the world, that is, not avaible on earth in the OT period for Israel only knows a God of heaven, not of earth anymore as was the case in the theocracy that ended with judges. But in the NT it is yet hid again because it is being rejected by Israel as Christ buys propriation through the cross and the sowing work of His to reach men's hearts unto the millennial kingdom to come. "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done".
Why the hostility towards a millennial peace to come? I know that post-millennialist fantastically think the tares will one day turn into wheat; the amillennialist think the Great Tribulation is behind them so they don't think they have to face the solemn warning at the end of this age for the last generation. Blunting it! Preterists are so romanistic and earthly it makes a mockery of Christ's return. Each though treats this time now as being the millennium of hitler, which is no millennial peace on earth that God longs for.
The Kingdom of Heaven begins with John the Baptist, not the 12 apostles, so that additionally puts to rest your idea Stanman. It is not about the 12 apostles, but the treasure of the glory of the millennial peace in view that Christ is looking ontwards. That is the objective. And the new city is exactly what Abraham was looking for too. Not 12 men. It is the 3rd aspect of the kingdom of heaven that you are missing out on (regarding accountability and rewards as well as discipline in outer darkness loss of rewards), that of reigning with Christ in the millennial kingdom to come with an iron rod, certainly not happening now. The aspect of the iron rod today is not in place yet.
The Kingdom of Heaven is hidden, yet here on earth as shown in v.44, but the pearl which is the beauty of the church here on earth, which is not hidden, and definitely open, is a testimony to the world in vv.45,46. The Church is related to the Lord; the kingdom of heaven is related to men. The Church pertains to the giving of life; the kingdom of heaven pertains to the receiving of disciples. The Church speaks of position and grace; the kingdom of heaven speaks of responsibility. So in v.44 the kingdom of heaven's coming millennial kingdom glory on earth is seen: the TREASURE; in vv.45,46 the beauty of the temporary Church - the PEARL - is seen that the Kingdom of Heaven includes within itself.
Praise the Lord!
SUMMARIZING YOUR MISTAKES Stanman
When someone writes a different opinion, it would be gracious of you not to refer to them as mistakes.
QUOTE:
Treasure: the remnant of Israel, the lost sheep of the house of Israel
The millennium kings and priests (Rev. 20.6) are not Israel, but Gentiles or Jews who overcome in Christ (and not all those in the Church are overcomers), so our emphasis is the the millennial kingdom itself as THE TREASURE.So why then would it be hidden? The Jews knew about. Doesn't wash.
QUOTE:
Field: the adulterous generation of the house of Israel, the nation of Israel
Clearly we have proven Christ buys the sins of believers and is a propriation for the world (2 Peter 2.1) which was quoted in Scripture as the world. So THE FIELD is the world.You are hung up on the world, a field can also represent Israel just as the earth is Israel and the sea is the gentiels.
QUOTE:
Man: Jesus
Hey, you got one right.You are so generous.
QUOTE:
Found Treasure: chose 12 sons of Abraham from the remnant to be shepherds of the kingdom
This is your Jewish focus, but God has even greater scope in view regarding the earth, not just a nation's peoples. Also, 12 sons is too small a focus as well. It really is about the 1000 years (Rev. 20.2-7) and the glory of it. Therefore, FOUND is the Lord's Work of the sowing, and THE TREASURE is still the glory of the millennial kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven.It's not my focus, it's the focus of the Bible. Israel is not "just a nation's peoples," they were a Chosen People. And the remnant is His treasure. The Twelve Apostles eventually will form the twelve gates of New Jerusalem, but first will be shepherds in the millennial kingdom.
QUOTE:
Hid Treasure: after Israel's shepherds rejected Him as Messiah, He unveiled in Matthew 13 a new form of the kingdom, but hid the knowledge of it from the eyes and ears of unbelievers
Actually, this is not a new form of something, but wholly something else. The Messianic Kingdom will begin in the millennial kingdom, but so too will the millennial rewards for overcomers in Christ. The millennial glory to come on earth is HID from Israel and the world, FIELD. This doesn't wash either, the glory of the kingdom is Jesus Himself, so why would He hide it and then find it? He came to earth to seek and to save the lost sheep of Israel, so the remnant was His goal, His treasure. First it was hidden among the people of the nation, then Jesus hid it in the new form of the kingdom which was unknown and a mystery to the prophets. And it was not limited to the twelve, they were the good seed that He planted to grow His kingdom.
QUOTE:
Sold all He had: sacrificed Himself as the Lamb of God to pay the penalty of sin for all
You got two right! Way to go! I am humbled.
QUOTE:
Bought the field: bought the whole world and Israel too.
Since Israel is in the whole world, you need not add on Israel for that is redundant. It is like saying I bought a bag of ten apples, then pull one out, and say, "hey look, I bought one apple". Additionally notice your contradiction, that above you say Israel is the field, and here you say the world and Israel are the field. Obviously that is incompatible; such are holes in your beliefs. Repetition is a hole in my belief? You are a tough man. And why do you say the Bible is incompatible when it uses a field for a symbol of both the world and Israel? The only obvious thing is that you are too narrow in focus here. The past hidding that was accomplished is with respect to Israel not being able to see the God of the earth also (that is the field of the world), so to hide again means to wait upon that day for it to happen for the whole world, as Israel rejects Christ. Wrong again, that is absurd. You say that Jesus was hidden from them? Undeniable, but it doesn't fit the metaphor...it would say that Jesus found Himself in a field. Let's be reasonable, shall we?
StanMan,
Notice that your opinions were mistakes, and more than that, they had quite the confidence behind them as further noted by your commentary here too. Therefore, instead of letting you relish in them, stronger language was most apt to describe them as mistakes, for your benefit; otherwise I would be negligent by the Holy Spirit in not helping you. And you would not be helped as much since then you would not have identified what those mistakes were. This is yet still gracious, for I have not said anything harsher. However, as your posts continue, your tone is getting worse. Why don't you answer when I ask you what your end-time view is?
So why then would it be hidden? The Jews knew about. Doesn't wash.
Why ask me why it was hidden, when it was already said, why it was hidden? That doesn't wash. It shows you are not reading as we go along, just speaking. It is as though your mind is darkened. Reluctantly, I will say it again, but the full proof, please go and read it. In the OT God's Kingdom was hidden to Israel because of their sin. When Christ came, it was hidden again because they rejected Him. Pretty simple stuff.
You are hung up on the world, a field can also represent Israel just as the earth is Israel and the sea is the gentiels.
Jesus was hung up on the world too for He said "the field is the world" (v.38a). Why so hostile to Christ's word? Don't you realize you are changing His very word, or at least trying to? In the same vein as your ego-centricism you mentioned about yourself earlier, here we have your myopicness towards Israel, and not a more expansive view that Christ said that the field is the world, also in v.44. Therefore, God is looking towards a millennial peace, the 1000 year reign of Christ to come. The question is are you? Would you call yourself a Christian? If so do you affiliate yourself with any group or denomination?
To say again, so there is no doubt, the field, which is the world, has not manifested yet the millennial piece of the treasure which is the glory of the kingdom of heaven that shall come; not just now in spiritual conduct (chapters 5-7), nor just outward appearance today (ch.13), but also in the millennial peace. I find lots of people are not saved because they don't want this by treating the millennial kingdom as historical, even though it is in the 3rd last chapter of the entire Bible. Obviously, that is a problem. They reveal themselves having a strange spirit about them.
This doesn't wash either, the glory of the kingdom is Jesus Himself, so why would He hide it and then find it? He came to earth to seek and to save the lost sheep of Israel, so the remnant was His goal, His treasure. First it was hidden among the people of the nation, then Jesus hid it in the new form of the kingdom which was unknown and a mystery to the prophets. And it was not limited to the twelve, they were the good seed that He planted to grow His kingdom.
The glory of the kingdom is Christ, for all comes back to Christ; but what is the kingdom of heaven and its glory in particulars? It is the spiritual conduct (Matt. 5-7), outward appearnces or boundary of it today (Matt. 13), and it is also a reigning in the millennial kingdom. Pretty simple. The glory of the Kingdom in Christ is for Him to return and walk with us and reward us. In so doing it gives Him great pleasure to finally return. He wants to walk with man made in His image out of His glory in creating us. God's kingdom is hidden from the Jews, and God does the hiding because His chosen ones reject Him, so He has no choice in His righteousness, that you would then be rejecting, to not yet manifest the glory of the kingdom (treasure) in a millennial peace until the fullness of the gentiles come in. Israel was an aim to a greater goal, that of Abraham's which is the new city, even in the new earth. Israel is the center of that sphere of the old city on earth in the millennium to come. The New Jerusalem of earth prevents the New Jerusalem above from coming down, since you can't have both at the same time. God did not come to save just Israel. He came to save the world. You have a false teaching of just Israel. Israel is the nation God first revealed Himself too for His greater purpose. He had to start somewhere in redemption of the fallen Adamic race. It is good that you accept that the teasure is no longer now just the 12 men, but it is greater, greater than Israel, greater than athe pearl of great price (Church); it is in fact the glory of the millennial kingdom whereby God will return in Christ to reign for 1000 years in a millennial peace. This is the glory hidden in the OT for Jews ended up only accepting God as a "God of heaven" not of earth. And when the kingdom of heaven first began with John the baptist, the kingdom was hidden again on account of the Jews rejecting Christ. It could have arrived on earth for all eyes to see. Therefore, we have yet to find a kingdom of heaven gloriously in a millennial peace yet. Pretty simple. So you see this is not some new form of something before. In the OT we see the Kingdom of God from eternity past, which is more deeply inner spiritual than the outward kingdom of heaven, and will go onto eternity future. The kingdom of heaven ends with the millennial peace ending. But the kingdom of God continues on. The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are the same Kingdom, except they are viewed from different perspectives. They are both the same in terms of Matt. 5-7 spiritual reality and conduct and Matt. 13 in its outward sphere. They only differ in that the K of G is deeper spiritually. Do not spiritualize the glory inordinately of Christ only without a millennial peace, otherwise you will miss the millennial kingdom to come. Historicalists are inordinately allegorists trying to fit squares into round holes.
It's not my focus, it's the focus of the Bible. Israel is not "just a nation's peoples," they were a Chosen People. And the remnant is His treasure. The Twelve Apostles eventually will form the twelve gates of New Jerusalem, but first will be shepherds in the millennial kingdom.
The treasure is the millennial kingdom since the field is the world, Jesus says so. The twelve apostles are not going to be gates. They are in memory by name the 12 foundations of the wall silly (Rev. 21.14). The 12 gates are in memory of the 12 tribes of Israel for all those that were saved, since pearls are what Christ goes out to collect from all dispensations, all the saved since Adam (v.21). Your focus becomes dangerous when it is to circumvent the millennial peace for Satan does not want that. Not once have you mentioned this as what God longs for. Israel is the chosen race, meaning, the nation God first revealed Himself. Since Matt. 13 is describing the outward sphere of the Kingdom of Heaven, that sphere has in it also those unsaved who have the appearnce of being in the church, but its aim is the millennial peace. In it now are the unsaved Israelites who are Judaizers of Christianity calling themselves Christians, perhaps such as yourself, of which only a remnant in this dispensation will ever enter the millennial kingdom, and that is the last one that remains that finally. That is an indication of how bad Israel's condition is that it needs to wait for Christ to actually step down on the mount of olives to accept Him. In the millennial kingdom to come we will be more than just shepherds. We will be kings and priests receiving rewards, given to overcomers in Christ, while non-overcomers in Christ spend time in outer darkness loss of rewards. It is as though you are still hanging around in Matt. 1-12, and have not come into the Church seen in Matthew 13 that is in the Kingdom of Heaven. That's unfortunate.
Repetition is a hole in my belief? You are a tough man. And why do you say the Bible is incompatible when it uses a field for a symbol of both the world and Israel? The only obvious thing is that you are too narrow in focus here.
No. Repetition is not a hole. Changing the meaning terms as you go along is the hole. You are a tough man. The reason you do this is you are trying to fit things where they do not belong. It takes a tough man with a seared conscience to do that without considering the error being made. The Bible never describes Israel as the field ever. Do you see how this is just your imagination? In your toughness, you seem to be hostile towards a millennial peace, and that hostility bears out in this hardness thinking the field is Israel, not every speaking up for a peace. The verses provided for you already, that you blithe over, clearly indicate nothing about the field being Israel, only the world. Israel is of the earth, but that is not an expression of the field. You can't sense that intuitively can you? See the verses already supplied. The only obvious conclusion is that you are too narrow focused focused on the just one nation, and not the millennial peace which encompasses ALL NATIONS with Israel as the center in its remnant in the last generation of this age.
Wrong again, that is absurd. You say that Jesus was hidden from them? Undeniable, but it doesn't fit the metaphor...it would say that Jesus found Himself in a field. Let's be reasonable, shall we?
I didn't say Jesus was hidden. I said God of earth was hidden unto a millennial peace. Children of Israel could only see a God of heaven, not of earth. This is proven as already stated, that God is not referred to as God of the earth after Israel was taken captive to babylon. Why do you hate the millennial peace glory to come? Satan does as much. What is your end-time view? Is it amillennialism or preterism perhaps? Why avoid this question? You realize at least 95% of historicalists are unregenerated because they don't care for a millennial peace on earth. Sounds evil eh? Indeed.
Anyway you sound like you are just being billigerent, culminating in this last comment of yours saying I said something I did not say about Jesus which would be the sin of bearing false witness outwardly and in your heart; which is why you could not show it or quote it.
My prayers go out to Stanman. You have a battle ahead of you.
I have absorbed what you said and explained above why it is in error, pulling it apart piece by piece above, and rendinger your position untenable. You are really left naked with nothing.
Since you don't see the errors I have shown you made, that is itself doublespeak on your own part, showing you have not absorbed what I have said; of course, it will be judged by that false judgment of yours that needs to come back upon you. Actually what you are really revealing is that untruth in your heart: altering the pearl of great price speaking against the Church, and a treasure that is not the millennial kingdom glory. You have your eye on other things, like Israel inordinately so. But there is a reason you do this as we see below. Nothing is new under the son. You have finally exposed your real position.
May I suggest an alternative for you: get rid of these untruths in your heart. If God does not want them there, why do you hold onto them? I know, you have shown me in no uncertain terms: when you said " gathering does not stop at the rapture of the church but continues during the tribulation". This overassumes first rapture of the Church and not just the overcomers of the Church (Rev. 3.10, Luke 21.36). What I have found, is under pretribber onlyism (that you revealed about yourself in other thread) is that what is behind all these antics of yours is the overassuming view of believing you will be raptured at first rapture having nothing to do with readiness.
The consequence of this of course is that when you find yourself in the Great Tribulation, you will not realize it, because you assumed it could not happen; so, you take the mark of the beast, not thinking it is the mark, and that is that. That is the sin of pretribulation rapture onlyism.
Watchman Nee goes into the details of this problem here,
II, This first school [PRETTRIBBER ONLYISTS] has not only no scriptural evidence but bases too much of its arguments merely on assumptions. For such a weighty problem like rapture, it should certainly not be decided on mere assumptions. Its assumptions are as follows.
D. The disciples in the four Gospels are Jews. It is to them, that is to say, to the Jews, that the Lord exhorts to watch and pray. Since we Christians will be raptured anyway, there is no need for us to be exhorted to watch and pray [MAJOR PRIDE]. We go to the Epistles for our inspiration. However, the disciples are Christians, and they too are in the church. Are not the disciples called Christians (Acts 11.26; cf. Matt. 28.19)?
E. Adherents of this first school of interpretation do not regard much of the four Gospels and the Acts as written for Gentile believers. C. I. Scofield, for example, maintained that the so-called Sermon on the Mount is exclusively for the Jews. They forget, though, the words in Matthew 28.20 (“teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you” ) and in John 14.26 (“and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you”). They base all their teachings on the words of the apostle Paul, whereas they should remember what Paul himself said in Colossians 3: “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly” (v.16).
F. “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world...; and then shall the end come” (Matt. 24.14). They suggest that the gospel of the kingdom is different from the gospel of grace and that the gospel of the kingdom is only preached during the time when the Lord was on earth and immediately before the Great Tribulation. Since we are saved by the gospel of grace, it is their contention that the gospel of grace need not be preached to the whole world before we are raptured. Thus, the gospel of the kingdom will only be preached again ten or twenty years before the Tribulation. Yet the gospel of the kingdom is the gospel of the kingdom of God, and the gospel of grace is the gospel of the grace of God. According to Acts 20.24-25, “the gospel of the grace of God” spoken of in verse 24 is none other than “the preaching” of “the kingdom” mentioned in verse 25. Also, please note from Acts 1 that the Lord after His resurrection spoke to the disciples “the things concerning the kingdom of God” (v.3).
G. They view the work of Christ on earth as fulfilling the ministry towards the circumcised, thus showing a definite Jewish background; and therefore whatever is commanded in the Gospels is not for us Christians but is for the Jews. Let me say in response, however, that the dispensation of Grace also begins with Christ. Please read the following passages: (1) Matthew 11.13-14 and Luke 16.16 - where the phrase “from that time” in Luke means from the time of Christ; (2) Acts 10.36-37 and 13.25-27 - where we see that “the word of this salvation” (13.26) begins to be preached at the time of John the Baptist; (3) Mark 1.1-15 and John 1.1-15 - from which we learn that “the gospel of Jesus Christ” (Mark 1.1 ) commences with John the Baptist; (4) Luke 4.17-21 - which verses describe the gospel of grace in a number of ways and concludes by recording the Lord Jesus as saying: “Today hath this scripture been fulfilled” (v.21); (5) John 4.23 - wherein the phrase “and now is” indicates that during the dispensation of Grace those who worship God worship Him in spirit and truth (whereas under the dispensation of Law, men apprehended God in the flesh and according to rituals); and (6) John 5.24-25 - which verses tell us that what is included in the phrase “and now is” is the gospel of grace.