Can Morality Save Us?

[Faithful]

Works of the law in English is more grammatically correct. The ceremonial rituals of the Jewish people were to point to Christ, so that when Christ came they need no longer be performed, e.g. requiring certain foods only, animal sacrifices, keeping the Sabbath and so forth.

No doubt this was a tough transition for Israel which many did not want to accept, but for those who practiced those rituals for the purpose of pointing to Christ, they would not reject their Messiah, nor continue to practice those rituals, because Jesus had come to achieve the works of the law.

The problem was in fact the unsaved Jews who wanted to keep the law also rejected Christ as do Messianic Jews today for another Christ.

EBIONITES - Only for the Jews

BASIC TENETS - You must be a Jew to be a follower of Jesus and accept him as the Jewish Messiah. He wasn't divine at birth, but God valued his righteousness and allowed his sacrifice to redeem humanity's sin.

REQUIREMENTS - Ebionites continued to obey Jewish law. They kept kosher and ritual baths, and men had to be circumcised!

APPEAL - The faith allowed Jesus' early Jewish followers in Palestine to embrace him without making a break from their birth identity.

[jerusalemcouncil]

The problem was in fact the unsaved Jews who wanted to keep the law also rejected Christ as do Messianic Jews today for another Christ.

If one wants to keep the law to "Love the LORD your God" - do they reject Christ? Better yet, when a Christians keeps the law to "Love the LORD your God" are they rejecting Christ?

[Faithful]

Yes, you are rejecting Christ because you prefer to remain in your sin nature and not die to the law. You still try to love a god with your own strength, but he is not God of the Bible.

[jerusalemcouncil]

Yes, you are rejecting Christ because you prefer to remain in your sin nature and not die to the law. You still try to love a god with your own strength, but he is not God of the Bible.

Do you, Faithful, love God?

This isn't a trick question.

[Faithful]

Yes. That's not a trick answer.

[jerusalemcouncil]

jerusalemcouncil:
Do you Faithful, love God?

Faithful:
Yes.

Then you are keeping the commandment to "Love the LORD your God."

[Faithful]

By grace through faith, not in myself trying to keep the law.

What does Paul teach concerning the Sabbath? He maintains that the Sabbath is a thing that has passed away: “having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross . . . Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ’s” (Col. 2.14,16-17).

You are living in the shadow of things to come when they have already come to show you are unsaved.

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks” (Rom. 14.5-6).

In the Old Testament time, a person who did not keep the Sabbath day was to be stoned to death. In the New Testament time, the Jews wanted to kill the Lord for His not keeping the Sabbath. They were not able to carry out their plan because miracles through Jesus were definitely being performed. In the days of Paul, the apostle maintained that “every day [was] alike.” You should be put to death if you ever worked on a Saturday at any time in our past. Therefore, you should be dead already according to your faith.

[jerusalemcouncil]

jeusalemcouncil:
Then you are keeping the commandment to "Love the LORD your God."

Faithful:
By grace through faith, not in myself trying to keep the law.

And it is by grace, through faith, not in myself trying to keep the Sabbath, do I therefore keep the Sabbath, as well as every one of God's commandments that apply to me. :)

What does Paul teach concerning the Sabbath? He maintains that the Sabbath is a thing that has passed away: “having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross . . . Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ’s” (Col. 2.14,16-17).

I answered this in another post. (and I am not daft to not figure out I am talking to the same person.) The "bond" is what was nailed, not the written ordinances. And I am not letting you judge me for keeping the Sabbath.

You are living in the shadow of things to come when they have already come to show you are unsaved.

When the shadows teach me more about Christ, who is living in me as a believer completly trusting in Him alone for salvation, I find your judgment regarding my salvation to be rather futile. That you claim to know Christ but not use the telescope he gives you to see him clearer, I can not help you.

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks” (Rom. 14.5-6).

I answered that in another post. According to the context, the days in dispute are weekly fast days - which aren't proscribed in the Torah and thus are totally up for debate.

In the Old Testament time, a person who did not keep the Sabbath day was to be stoned to death. In the New Testament time, the Jews wanted to kill the Lord for His not keeping the Sabbath. They were not able to carry out their plan because miracles through Jesus were definitely being performed. In the days of Paul, the apostle maintained that “every day [was] alike.” You should be put to death if you ever worked on a Saturday at any time in our past. Therefore, you should be dead already according to your faith.

If I commit viglante justice and stone someone for breaking the Sabbath, I will have broken the Torah's commandment to not put anyone to death without the testimony of two or three qualified witnesses in a court of law. Furthermore, if I was not a witness, I could not be the first to stone. Also if the incident wasn't in the Land of Israel, there is no jurisdiction for such a court to rule the death penalty. Lastly, only if the person was warned repeatedly to stop breaking the Sabbath in the way they were doing it, and they were proven to be flagrantly rebellious to the warnings so as to cause Israel to commit sin, could even the court convene to discuss the matter.

Often objections to keeping the Torah are quite ignorant of the Torah itself which is meant to be taken as a whole, and not piecemeal. Of course, if you have other objections to keeping the Torah, I'd be happy to go through them with you if you're sincerely interested in scriptural answers.

[Faithful]

You are not judged for having a day off for yourself. You are being judged for demanding the law of the Sabbath be kept. That is the lie you live. Since you have no evidence for your claim, and keep repeating yourself, this is your infraction for Board Etiquette #6. We don't care about your self-declarations. They are for dullards.

The reason you are not born-again is because you have replaced the indwelling Holy Spirit with the keeping of the Sabbath, which has passed. You know the Church does not require such a thing.

The burden of the proof remains on you to show Rom. 14.5, Col. 2.16,17 are false.