Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Regarding the 4 Step Proof for God

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Church of
    Sherwood Park
    Posts
    3,515
    Blog Entries
    30
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis Naryshkin View Post
    You know, about 30 minutes ago I started a big post that was to document one by one the NUMEROUS fallacies you've used. I've decided against it(15 paragraphs in I was up to around 50-60), and instead shall merely say that your post is a conglomeration of ad hominems, snobbery, proofs by assertion, appeals to tradition, emotion, personal incredulity, force, authority, and consequences, straw men, non sequiturs, loaded questions, and personal opinions not supported by modern science, and is, considered as a whole, an IMMENSE proof by verbosity.
    The reason I am responding so specifically to what you say is because the Lord wants me to show you that you have nothing to cling to in your faith.

    As I responded, I detailed very specifically your mistaken thinking point by point, well documented for all to see and for you to review at your leisure at any time you like. In response, you can't show otherwise; all you can do is self-declare you have an ability to do so and label many false accusations like your father Satan who also needs no reason when he accuses. I know that you don't in fact have an ability to, because no such ability exists. Therefore, all you can do is be coy. Now, since you have sinned again with accusations you don't have the ability to back up, one can be confident you're just selfishly trying to be couth. This is violating Board Etiquette #1. Please read it. As you accumulate these infractions be cognizant you are getting ever closer to entering into temporary Moderation so that if you get there, you will know you belong there.

    Also, this becomes your point of shutting your mind down for the Devil. You're headed to the same destination.
    Also, you are DISHONEST. I gave a link, then quoted a post from it where you said that Mohammed was a liar because he came 600+ years later than Jesus. In your response, you acted as if it was from this very topic, which IT WAS NOT. Please, show some shame. If this is my last post on this site, so be it.
    Let's go through the conversation:

    1) I said, "Because nothing in nature happens all by itself, therefore the ultimate cause is that which is uncaused who would be God of the Bible since none can compare to Christ."

    2) Then, you said, "Why can none compare to Christ? What's so horrid about Mohammed? He came later? If that's your argument, Buddha lived and taught 500 years before Christ was even born, and Hinduism existed centuries before THAT."

    3) My response was, "It is not the time of a person's existence for their cause of their truthfulness or untruthfulness. What a silly idea to bear false witness."

    Mohammed contrived his religion, and this is proven by the fact that over 600 years later he said Jesus never died. Since all the documentation we have points to Jesus dying on the cross and nobody in the first century saying otherwise, then Mohammed does not have a leg to stand on. We must conclude then that his contrived religion was devised in hostility to God of the Bible, and he is going to hell.

    Buddhism and hinduism are false because you are not going to come back as a chicken or a dog if you sin and receive endless chances to be a human being again, back and forth like a yoyo without real consequences. You get this one life to come to the cross and to believe in God. Even some person on some remote island who never read the Bible (the 66 books) or heard of it could still be saved if he looked up at the mountains and stars and believed in the Creator. Surely, if presented the Word of God, he would accept Christ as his Lord and Savior.

    Buddhism also makes no commentary on an uncreated creator, thus shutting the person's mind down to the uncreated creator for selfish idol worship of gods that the flesh indulges itself and which remain a point of separation from God."

    4) In response to my first paragraph in 3 above after quoting it, you responded with, "From: http://biblocality.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2108" and you quoted what I said in that link,
    "First off you should not believe in the god of Islam because he lies to you. He comes 600+ years later and says Jesus didn't die on the cross when all the documentation we have He did die on the cross. Nobody in the first century thought otherwise. Can you find anyone who thought otherwise? What about the second century?"
    5) I responded with, "Nothing in this link should cause you to believe the time of a person's existence determines their truthfulness. I am glad you couldn't show it," and certainly not the portion you quoted that you had answered 3 with.

    6) When I said, "Mohammed contrived his religion, and this is proven by the fact that over 600 years later he said Jesus never died,"...

    7) You responded by saying, "That bit was from this topic [i.e., this thread]."

    8) Obviously, so I said, "You brought it up".

    What is dishonest about this? You don't say, but accuse mindlessly. Where was it that I, using your words, "acted as if it [your quote of my words from that link] was from this very topic [i.e., this thread]"? You know very well I was just requoting it. Your misreading on purpose is your problem. You said "IT WAS NOT" from this thread, but where did I say it was? You are bearing false witness. Having put you to "shame" as you like to say, why don't you just repent and get back on topic about the fact that you still can't find anything wrong with the 4 Step Perfect Proof for God of the Bible.

    Your problem is you are trying to be cunning through your "petty self" when you made an issue of me quoting the same quote you quoted from that link. You brought it up, and I repeated what you brought up. What you're trying to do is deflect away from the actual subject matter with such nonsense so as to shut your mind down from accepting the truth. Through God's redemptive design by the power of the cross and the Holy Spirit, may God deliver you from your petty self but first you need to be born-again.

  2. #2
    Composer Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    . . . . like your father Satan who also needs no reason when he accuses.
    Story book biblical god was a Satan against Israel, so you bible believers are actually the Satan worshippers -

    "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah". (2 Samuel 24: 1) KJV story book
    Comparing this parallel account of the same incident we read: -

    And Satan stood up against Israel, , , , (1 Chron. 21: 1) KJV story book


    Later in story book 1 Chron. 21 we read: -


    And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel. {And...: Heb. And it was evil in the eyes of the LORD concerning this thing} 8 And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly. (1 Chron. 21: 7 - 8) KJV story book


    So the
    ADVERSARY = Satan (i.e. Satan is a Hebrew Word - Metaphor) that was against Israel / smote Israel - was definitely not a naughty spirit angel supernatural being (which don't literally exist in or out of the story book pages) but was story book god itself!


    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    Your problem is you are trying to be cunning through your "petty self"
    #self acclaimed born again hypocrite: As you are the proven Satan worshipper and hypocrite with the glaring ' beam in your own eye ' according to your own preferred Story book (e.g. Matt. 7:3-5 KJV Story book), you are not in a position to judge others, again according to your preferred Story book and your self acclaimed ' pearls ' ain't pearls at all!


    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    What you're trying to do is deflect away from the actual subject matter with such nonsense so as to shut your mind down from accepting the truth.
    My having presented the actual Truth, please don't continue your current hypocrisy by your trying to reject it as you falsely claimed others do exclusively!

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    .
    Through God's redemptive design by the power of the cross and the Holy Spirit, may God deliver you from your petty self but first you need to be born-again.
    Being allegedly ' born again ' hasn't worked for petty little loser you, as the above examples prove! (See: #self acclaimed born again hypocrite:)

    Much much much much much much better luck next times!
    Last edited by Composer; 11-23-2011 at 12:03 AM. Reason: Typos

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Church of
    Sherwood Park
    Posts
    3,515
    Blog Entries
    30
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    You're simply misunderstanding. There is a difference between being against Israel when Israel is being evil and for Israel when Israel is abiding in God's will as His chosen people.

    Whereas Satan is for Israel when Israel is being evil and against Israel when Israel is doing good, performing proper rituals and so forth.

    As to my salvation the Bible says, "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish" (John 10.28). I have eternal life and therefore, shall never perish, but you perish, because you eternally separate yourself from God.

  4. #4
    Composer Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork
    You're simply misunderstanding. There is a difference between being against Israel when Israel is being evil and for Israel when Israel is abiding in God's will as His chosen people.

    Whereas as Satan is for Israel when Israel is being evil and against Israel when Israel is doing good, performing proper rituals and so forth.

    Unfortunately for so called bible believers, their god is a proven Satan any which way; in that in this example it was a Satan against Israel when they were bad and remained a Satan whenever they were bad and became a Satan against Israel's enemies when Israel was reasonably behaving itself!


    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork
    As to my salvation the Bible says, "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish" (John 10.28). I have eternal life and therefore, shall never perish, but you perish, because you eternally separate yourself from God.
    1. ANY acclaimed holy text is 100% man made and the total evidence ANY are the words of ANY god(s) given to man remains a total of zero!

    Your emotional pleas and church propaganda materials do not qualify as legitimate evidence.

    2. Unfortunately for so called bible believers, their god is a proven Satan any which way; in that in this example it was a Satan against Israel when Israel was behaving badly and remained a Satan when against Israel's enemies when Israel was reasonably behaving itself!

    Either way, Story book bible believers remain Satan worshippers by worshipping their Story book god=Satan!

    As far as the claim that ANY are already forgiven -

    i) Quoting from a proven 100% Story book (bible) is no legitimate evidence for your otherwise empty arrogant claim.

    ii) The Story book promises were made to genuine Story book jesus' believers of which not a single one in history outside of Story book bible land has stepped up and qualified themselves as a legitimate candidate, let alone a confirmed legitimate and genuine Story book jesus' believer.

    Tell us all please: Do you still sin?

    Much much much much much much better luck next times!

    Name:  velvet10.gif
Views: 962
Size:  6.4 KB

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Church of
    Sherwood Park
    Posts
    3,515
    Blog Entries
    30
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    Don't repeat yourself, but respond to my point...

    You're simply misunderstanding. There is a difference between being against Israel when Israel is being evil and for Israel when Israel is abiding in God's will as His chosen people.

    Whereas Satan is for Israel when Israel is being evil and against Israel when Israel is doing good, performing proper rituals and so forth.

    As to my salvation the Bible says, "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish" (John 10.28). I have eternal life and therefore, shall never perish, but you perish, because you eternally separate yourself from God.

  6. #6
    Composer Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    Don't repeat yourself, but respond to my point...
    I didn't ' repeat myself ' I confirmed what I correctly stated in the beginning and reinforced it with extra evidence again confirming the errors are entirely yours!

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    You're simply misunderstanding. There is a difference between being against Israel when Israel is being evil and for Israel when Israel is abiding in God's will as His chosen people.
    Chosen people in Story book land or not, the Story book god remains always a Satan to them when they are bad and to Israel's enemies when they are not as bad! Story book bible confirms me as correct, not you -

    And Satan stood up against Israel, , , , (1 Chron. 21: 1) KJV story book

    Later in story book 1 Chron. 21 we read: -


    And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.

    Thus Satan (god) he smote Israel!


    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    Whereas as Satan is for Israel when Israel is being evil
    You remain incorrect: Story book Satan (god) was against Israel when it was evil!

    And Satan stood up against Israel, , , , (1 Chron. 21: 1) KJV story book

    Later in story book 1 Chron. 21 we read: -


    And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.

    Thus Satan (god) smote Israel!


    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    and against Israel when Israel is doing good, performing proper rituals and so forth.
    So you claim your alleged biblical god(Satan) was against Israel even " when Israel is doing good. . . . . "

    IF I believe that then this god you purport is a Satan against Israel when they are good or bad?

    How does that allegedly work for your claims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    As to my salvation the Bible says, "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish" (John 10.28). I have eternal life and therefore, shall never perish, but you perish, because you eternally separate yourself from God.
    You repeated your false claim and I asked you whether you still were a sinner and still sinned?

    I wrote:

    As far as the claim that ANY are already forgiven -

    i) Quoting from a proven 100% Story book (bible) is no legitimate evidence for your otherwise empty arrogant claim.

    ii) The Story book promises were made to genuine Story book jesus' believers of which not a single one in history outside of Story book bible land has stepped up and qualified themselves as a legitimate candidate, let alone a confirmed legitimate and genuine Story book jesus' believer.

    Tell us all please: Do you still sin? (Now emphasised so you can't Unintentionally miss it)

    Please follow my brilliant examples by actually answering what is asked along with supportive legitimate evidence, instead of you persistently falsely claiming that e.g. I repeated myself, when in fact it was you & only you that did so and hypocrytically to boot!

    Much much much much much much better luck next times!

    Name:  velvet10.gif
Views: 886
Size:  6.4 KB

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Church of
    Sherwood Park
    Posts
    3,515
    Blog Entries
    30
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    You're still making the same mistake. When Israel is doing evil God punishes. When Israel is doing God's will they are rewarded. Pretty simple. Satan wants Israel to do evil not good. Why do you keep shutting your mind down like a zombie to this fact?

  8. #8
    Composer Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    You're still making the same mistake.
    The mistakes are all yours and those like you!

    You are a sore loser whose entire capacity is to silence me by using illegitimate and fabricated penalties and bans (temporary so far whilst you recouperate from your losses to try again) simply because
    -
    1. You are a sinner and hence a fraudulent Story book jesus' believer

    2. Your legitimate evidence for your claims is wanting hence silencing me dishonestly is your only disgraceful alternative!

    3. The beam in your eye isn't quite as large as your arrogance and religious ineptitude!


    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    When Israel is doing evil God punishes.
    That's because Story book god is the Adversary(Satan) responsible for the creation of ALL evil!

    For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Col. 1:16) KJV Story book

    And Satan (i.e. Story book god the creator of ALL evil) stood up against Israel, , , , (1 Chron. 21: 1) KJV story book

    Later in story book 1 Chron. 21 we read: -


    And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.

    Thus Satan (god) smote Israel!


    You are a sore loser!

    Perhaps some one else can jump in and try to do much much much much better than Churchwork and his predecessors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    When Israel is doing God's will they are rewarded.
    ALL god(s) are human inventions and the combined legitimate evidence otherwise remains a constant zero!
    Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
    Pretty simple. Satan wants Israel to do evil not good.
    Again your claims are proven incorrect!

    The Story book christian alleged Satan is often a goody -

    Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. (1 Tim. 1:20) KJV Story book

    What a foolish, self contradictory 'satan being' many have invented for themselves.

    If for any purpose this claim were true. All that would be achieved would be to expose its foolishness, inconsistency and self contradiction.
    (I can imagine this alleged being's followers thinking - "What do we do, do we teach godliness also and when, and how much, for if it were good enough for our leader - satan, then we must do likewise?")

    Once again, for evil to teach godliness for any purpose would only bring about its self contradiction and self destruction. i.e. a house divided against itself will soon collapse.
    (Not last thousands and thousands of years)

    i) Why would Paul or any Christian take or recommend any one to this evil Satan spirit being to learn how ' not ' to blaspheme?
    ii) How did they find it?
    (Isn't it supposed to be in Hell? - cf. Satan's seat - Rev. 2:13) KJV Story book)
    iii)
    How did they know it would agree to help Christians turn to god?
    iv) Why wouldn't Paul or any Christian seek this biblical god's help instead of going to get help from its alleged greatest adversary / enemy?
    v) Your alleged naughty spirit angel's assistants and followers (apparently? - Rev. 12:4 KJV Story book) surely must be confused and thinking to themselves, " eh! I thought the boss and us always went against this god? "
    vi) Besides a total self contradiction for itself, what did your naughty spirit being achieve for itself by helping others learn how not to blaspheme their god?
    vii) How did Hymenaeus and Alexander and the others that delivered them there survive in this Hell (Satan's Seat?) then safely return?


    &

    To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Cor. 5: 5) KJV Story book.

    So your alleged naughty Satan isn't that bad after all heh? teaching others not to blaspheme and here again even saving spirits / souls for Jesus? LOL!

    So far therefore, these examples confirm your Satan was in accordance with your god!

    Much much much much much much much better luck next times!

    I know why those like you keep shutting your mind down like a zombie to these Story book facts? (e.g.
    1, 2 & 3 above)

    Much much much much much much much better luck next times you sinner and hence Story book jesus' reject!

    Name:  velvet10.gif
Views: 915
Size:  6.4 KB

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Church of
    Sherwood Park
    Posts
    3,515
    Blog Entries
    30
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    It's a fact the twelve apostles in their contemporary writings of the first century multiply attested they truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings (talked with him, walked with him, touched him and ate with him) for which there is no naturalistic explanation, thus proving Jesus is God for only God can resurrect Himself from the grave. Amen.

    The approach that I take is called the Minimal Facts Approach because it draws from what most scholars concede that Paul truly believed and wrote 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 in which he states the gospel message, some of the resurrection appearances and that he spent 15 days with Peter (one of the 12 Apostles), and with John (one of the 12 Apostles) and James (brother of Jesus) on more than one occasion. Suffice it to say they talked about more than just the weather. Paul recounted the resurrection testimony from these Apostles.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 4 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 4 Step Proof for God & Minimal Facts Approach
    By Churchwork in forum Minimal Facts Approach
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-02-2016, 08:31 PM
  2. 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible
    By Churchwork in forum Science
    Replies: 149
    Last Post: 07-25-2014, 12:56 PM
  3. Questions About the 4 Step Proof
    By Silverhammer in forum Atheist/Agnostic
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-14-2011, 05:07 PM
  4. 4 Step Proof for God - True or False?
    By whatisup in forum Atheist/Agnostic
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-25-2011, 05:41 PM
  5. My Issues With the 4 Step Proof for God
    By adrian in forum Atheist/Agnostic
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-29-2007, 02:49 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •