Quote Originally Posted by Churchwork View Post
Irresistible grace is not given to the sinner, nor would that give the person the ability to choose.
Right, my point was simply that both understand that sinners require grace before they can begin moving towards God.

Arminians are not in the same boat as Calvinists. The way God does things is perfectly righteous. Asking Him to do more than that would not be. And Paul could have rejected Jesus. You can say God is obligated to perform the way He does because He is obligated to do things perfectly being perfect in Himself.
I agree, God is only limited by his own holy character. And you’re right, Paul could’ve refused to obey God after his Damascus road experience, but God chooses not to appear to all sinners in such a dramatic and convincing fashion. If he did, I suspect more sinners would be converted.

Adam and Eve did sin in the Garden.
Agreed, but God did not intervene when the serpent was tempting Eve, even though he could have.

God is not culpable for the Fall in the sense you think. He is culpable only in the sense that He affords man the free choice to fall. You're made in God's image and given sufficient grace. Not wanting something after it is already given to you is entirely delusional. It would be like a dog asking God to not be a dog, but some other animal. Sufficient grace is different from irresistible grace in that the latter doesn't give you the free choice, and not giving you the free choice is basically robots. The latter does not glorify God when He can and does do the former. So God trumps your god every time because your god can't do what God does which is far better.
Not sure what you mean by “your god”, but you said earlier “You have received sufficient grace, even though you don't want it" which as I understand it, is similar to Calvinism’s irresistible grace – it’s unasked-for grace.

You are depraved but not totally depraved. "Dead" in the Bible means disassociation from life or cessation of communication, not Total inability. You can still help an old lady across the street and so you still have free will though it has been damaged.
I agree. There certainly is a sense in which lost sinners can perform good works, like helping the little old lady across the street. After all, Jesus said:

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. (Luke 6:32-33)

But I don’t think lost sinners can perform good in the highest sense, meaning works that are done to the glory of God, in obedience to his Word, and motivated by faith and love for Christ. I think this is what Paul has in mind when he wrote:

7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Rom. 8:7-8)

That’s why we all need grace, because our minds are naturally hostile to God and cannot submit to his law.

Sufficient grace by the Holy Spirit is given to make the choice, to search God out with all your heart and soul so that you shall surely find Him. If willing, God will give you the gift of repentance and faith to believe in Him to be regenerated and receive eternal life which can never be lost.
Amen, brother.

In Calvinism its god is arbitrary and capricious because it saves and sends people to Hell irresistibly giving them no opportunity to have the free choice. What love is that?
You’d have to ask a Calvinist to answer that one.

I couldn't acknowledge you as a brother in Christ or break bread with you unless you came to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior to be regenerated. If you came to me and instead said that you were regenerated that caused you to repent and believe, I would rebuke you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That's my responsible role to do so.
Nor would I acknowledge someone as a brother in Christ unless he first repented of his sin and trusted in Christ alone for his salvation.

You would be wrong. Jacob Arminius said never once did he ever teach a person could lose salvation. That's what he said.
I didn’t say Arminius taught that a believer could lose his salvation. I said “most people today who claim to be Arminians also reject perseverance of the saints, even if Arminius himself did not.”

There are no Arminians who don't accept preservation of the saints; otherwise they would be Remonstrants. Whatever common or popular view of things is, it doesn't matter, because Arminius said what he said. So don't sin bearing false witness against him. Non-OSASers are Remonstrants.

I am not bearing false witness against Arminius. I trust you’ve done the research, I have not, so if you say Arminius taught OSAS, I’ll take your word for it.

Calvinists have it wrong, because we are not once-saved-always-saved by being irresistibly forced into it, or pridefully proclaiming on a pedestal that it is so. Rather, we whom are saved are saved because we gave our lives to the God who keeps, knowing we can't keep ourselves saved, for salvation is not by works lest any man should boast. Moreover, Calvinists use the phrase not preservation of the saints but "Perseverance of the Saints" as if salvation is kept by working for it, persevering for it. Such language doesn't on its face fit what Calvinist really believe. What they really mean is that they were irresistibly made to persevere, which again, is robots. God wants fellowship not with robots, but humans made in His image with sufficient grace to have the free choice; something your god will never be able to do.

Calvinists and Arminians certainly disagree on the “how” of OSAS, but agree that a genuine born-again believer cannot lose his or her salvation.

The body of Christ always remains a "little flock" (Luke 12.32) in terms of the total number of human beings who ever lived. Though Rev. 7.9 may not include all those who are saved it is at least 200,000,000 as the largest number in the Bible. But since the New City is 1379 x 1379 miles, one might thing that could comfortably fit a billion saved souls. But that is a little flock compared to say 50 billion since Adam and another 250 billion in millennial kingdom. 1 / 300 is a little flock.

Perhaps. I’m not too concerned about speculating on the ratios of saved-to-unsaved regarding future generations. I just know that John teaches us that the saved will be such a great multitude that no one can count!

If you ask what the most popular teachings in Christendom are today, one could say Calvinism, Remonstrant, Historicism (Preterism, Postmill, Amill) and Gibberish Babble (Pentecostalism).
And the largest group, Roman Catholics. And the various Eastern Orthodox churches. Sadly none of them preach the gospel of justification by faith alone in Christ alone.