Quote Originally Posted by MrWinknod
You continually say God chooses people because of their action of choosing Him first. This idea is not in the bible, and throughout this discussion you have failed to provide even a single verse that states this. Where is human free will choice as a deciding factor in election, found in scripture? You accuse me of claiming that God chooses certain people for His church,which is what the bible teaches. Until you can answer this challenge you may as well quit your multiple opinionated rants. A single answer will suffice. Are you capable?

1 Peter 2:8-9, They disobey the word because we all disobey the word. We are all totally depraved so we all disobey. This is why regeneration must occur before the elect CAN obey. The bible states we are all gone astray, and none seek God in their unregenerate state. You must start to realize that the only way anyone comes to God is because they have been chosen and brought to saving faith, independent of anything we have done. Your theology is completely at odds with the whole plan of salvation. Your theology only works if you ram your presuppositions into the bible.
You keep saying it is not in the Bible that God chooses those who chose Him, but of course it is as has been shown to you many times many verses how God implores us and pleads with us to believe in Him, thus showing us that He has given us the free choice. You keep thinking man's free choice afforded to man is the deciding factor of election, but no, God is the one who is the deciding factor. He is the one who wrote the rules and set it up so that man must fulfill the condition, having supplied him with more than ample grace to have the free choice. You should be concerned because not only can you not find a single verse to support your irresistibly imposed regeneration theory, but you were unable to overturn any of the verses given in support of God able to and does give us the free choice. Your god can't do this, I grant you that.

As we have reoccuringly noticed, your favorite pastime is to sin bearing false witness. Here you said, "You accuse me of claiming that God chooses certain people for His church." I never accused you of "claiming that God chooses certain people for His church." Where did I do that? If I did that surely you could quote me doing so, but you can't, so why sin bearing false witness if you are on the up and up? What God accuses you of and are guilty of is claiming that He irresistibly chooses people for His church and sends people to Hell giving them no opportunity for salvation. When you phrase your words, why be so uncontentious not to realize this mistaken you make?

Until you realize this lack of discernment you had in phrasing what you said, I would not if I were venture into all the other points I bring up that you still have yet left undealt with that show your faith is false. A single answer can address one problem you have, but another response should be allowed to address another false idea you bring up regarding your false faith. Are you capable of understanding that? Sure you are, for you are not Totally depraved. God said if you come to Him with all your heart, He will receive you. Surely a loving God would not say such a thing if you could not, indeed, respond freely.

"And, 'He is the stone that makes people stumble, the rock that makes them fall.' They stumble because they do not obey God's word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them. But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God's very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light" (1 Pet. 2.8-9).

Why do they stumble on the stone? Because "they do not obey God's word." It does not say "because they are made to not obey God's word." God has "planned for them" their fate because as you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. You are not chosen because you refuse to receive the God of sufficient grace for all and truly come to the cross as a helpless sinner to be regenerated. You're being fake and disingenuous. But God calls His elect out of the wonderful light as He predestinated them by foreknowing their free choice. Those He predestinates He also calls (Rom. 8.30). Your god can't do this.

Everyone disobeys because everyone is a sinner. You are not Totally depraved, nobody is, for you can still help an old lady across the street. You're a sinner, you're depraved, you disobey like everyone, but you are not Totally depraved. No Scripture verse supports this heresy. Understand yourself! Realize why you teach Total depravity. It is because you refuse to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated, but now you have to rationalize your selfish stance, so you concoct an idol called Total depravity which says you can't, so you don't. What can you do next but, so ugly, pridefully assume you were irresistibly selected like Hitler and his Aryan race does. You're a bad guy.

1 Pet. 2.8-9 is not saying everyone disobeys; that's not the point of the passage; but that many have come to Christ. Read the verse again. It is contrasting those who believe and those who don't. It is placing the blame on those who don't believe: "They stumble because they do not obey God's word." How evil that would be to blame them if it was not their fault by being born into sin without any grace whatsoever to have the free choice. That's sick! You're sick. They stumble on the rock because they don't want to submit themselves to God like Christians have. They, in fact, worship a false Christ as you do. Since nobody is Totally depraved you don't need irresistibly imposed regeneration. Throw it away. It's garbage. When the Bible says none seek after God this is indeed our condition if God were not to supply sufficient grace to us all to have the free choice, but He does just that. This is called prevenient grace. What a great God God is that He can do this and your god can't. Actually, in a sense, it goes with the righteousness and holiness of God. Anything less or 'other' would be evil!

You must learn to realize this is a false statement you have made: "You must start to realize that the only way anyone comes to God is because they have been chosen and brought to saving faith, independent of anything we have done." Since you can find no verse in Scripture to support this idea, why believe it unless you are just priding yourself on a pedestal assuming you are irresistibly selected? How unattractive. Your colors are showing. A person is drawn and brought to saving faith, because the Bible says that person comes to God with all their heart. This is something you are unwilling to do, so you remain an unregenerate. God requires the conditional to be fulfilled since God is relational and personal; that is, for you, yes you, to repent and believe in Him to be regenerated, something you're yet unwilling to do and may never.

Your theology and false Christ you worship are completely at odds with the whole plan of salvation. You're chosen Satan's counterfeit salvation. Your theology doesn't even work when you ram your presuppositions into the Bible, because how well is that really going to work always feeding the pride of assuming you were irresistibly selected? Where is the humility in that? Sin will beget sin, self begets self. Your condition can only worsen. It seems to me you have some sense you know you are going to Hell, because any Christian I know is totally turned off with the idea of being irresistibly selected and sending people to Hell for no othe reason than they were born into sin which is not their fault. When someone can speak these plain words to you and you shut your mind down and close yourself off, I think your decision has long since been decided to go to Hell in your heart of heats. How sad for you.

Start to realize that the only way anyone comes to God is not because they have been irresistibly chosen or forced into saving faith, independent of anything we have done, but because in drawing everyone God has provided sufficient grace to us all to have the free choice, whereby many in their own sovereign free will come to God (in which God saves the most and damns the least) with all their heart so that God graces them with the gifts of repentance and faith unto regeneration. Praise the Lord!