Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Overman View Post
If you'd like to do your side of the argument a favor, you could try making a post addressed to me without bringing in an ad hominem argument. That would be a verifiable miracle.
It's not an ad hominem. Rather the reason you are going to Hell is proven as a consequence of the proof and your desire to be eternally separated from God. That's what you want. Why be offended? The resurrection of Jesus was verified.

This is not what a false dichotomy is. You're close, but not quite.
Wikipedia disagrees with you: "The logical fallacy of false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy) involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options." You're not too bright are you?

The false dichotomy fallacy is a fallacy in which an option is unfairly excluded. It is not a formal fallacy, so your formal analysis is superfluous.
I don't remember saying anything about formality.

I don't really see why you're trying to argue with me on this one. You're trying to make an argument known as the disjunctive syllogism, which is a valid one. So here's your argument:

1. Either the universe is eternally existent, or the universe had a beginning.
2. The universe is not eternally existent.
C. Therefore, the universe had a beginning.
Where did I argue with you? I stated what the logical fallacy is, and you disagreed with me and Wiki. You are disagreeing with us and arguing even though you are wrong.

Actually that is not my argument you made up. Rather, since nature always has a cause, but can't always have existed because you would have happened already, so nature shows us the uncreated Creator who creates outside of time and space. This is not a matter of selecting options, but one observable evidential fact leads to the next to know atheism is a lie of the Devil. What's the problem? Why be upset you are going to Hell? That's what you want.

The form of your argument is fine, and I accept premise 1 as true. But you're not giving me any reason to accept premise 2. Why should I?
I just told you. Wake up! You are starting from premises, I am just letting the evidence guide me where it may. You should do the same if you know what's good for you.

The only part of this section that was anything resembling an argument was the part where you said "that which doesn't exist can't cause anything." I agree with this point, and I should have made it more clear in the past that this is not a position that I am advocating.
I am glad you are not advocating something can come from nothing, and I am glad you agree that the universe can't always have existed. That's why Russell Glasser was no longer arguing whether God exists but who God was. He moved on past Martin Wagner's position of mindlessness.

Here is the argument again for the umpteenth time:
1) Nature always has a cause as evidenced by trillions of causes and no hard evidence otherwise, plus it's goofy something could come from nothing, for that which doesn't exist can't produce anything. It doesn't exist.
2) This necessarily requires an infinite regress of cause and effects, yet this is impossible because we would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so, so...
3) There necessarily must exist outside of nature, time and space, the cause to the universe.
4) That cause is uncreated because it is timeless, and intelligent, because the Creator can't be less than the created.
5) Who is He? God of the Bible because none can compare to Christ. Amen.


That's not a definition. Time is not a room. You can't step out of it.

You might be arguing that time is not a thing which applies to god, but this would be disproved by the bible itself, so I don't think you're going that route.
That is the definition, I never said it was a room, and though I can't step out of time, God can because as was shown above the uncreated Creator exists outside of time and space. It stands to reason He can enter His creation and exit as He wishes. The 66 books of the Bible are God's word to us.

There is nothing in the Bible that teaches God is restricted by time outside of His creation. You realize you're going to Hell right? Jesus said you are "condemned already" (John 3.18). I'm on team Jesus. You are on team Satan. You are the bad guy.

All I ask is one thing from you. Stop being so dumb around me. Think and rethink what you type. Stop being so impetuous.