Passover

[AlwaysLoved]

The Passover

Scripture Reading: Exodus 12

The children of Israel, God’s people, had been slaves in Egypt for many years. God saw their afflictions; He sent ten plagues to punish the Egyptians in order to compel them to set His chosen people free. But after the judgment of nine plagues, the Egyptians still remained hardhearted and refused to let their slaves go. Consequently, God was ready to send them the last plague by which He would finally accomplish His salvation as well as manifest His awesome power on behalf of His people.

What we will now see is how this last plague shows us the way of our salvation. God told the children of Israel He had decided to smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, making no distinction in His command between Israelite or Egyptian: "All the first-born in the land of Egypt shall die" (Ex. 11.5a). However, God provided a way of salvation for His people. He ordered that each Israelite family should take a lamb without blemish, have it slain, put the blood in a basin, dip a bunch of hyssop in the blood, and strike the lintel and the two side-posts of the doors to their houses with the blood. At midnight, the Angel of the Lord would go through the land. If He did not see the blood smeared on the door, He would enter the house and slay the firstborn there. Midnight sounded and the Lord smote all the firstborn of the Egyptians whose lintels and side-posts had no blood on them. Those who did not die serve as a type today of the saved, whereas those who died serve as a type of the perishing.

First of all, we should know that all the firstborn in Egypt must die. Egypt was under God’s judgment; and the children of Israel who lived there were therefore also under the judgment of God. The firstborn here represent all sinners (cf. 1 Cor. 15.46,47), Egypt stands for the world, and Pharaoh serves as a type or representation of the devil. Thus all who live in the world are sinners and are slaves to the devil—and hence under the judgment of God and deserving of eternal death. All have sinned, for there is no difference (Rom. 3.22,23). And the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6.23).

Do not be careless, neither forget this fact: that you are a sinner; your sins will be punished; and the punishment to be received is eternal perdition by suffering forever in the lake of fire. You ought to reflect more upon your sins! You should consider the matter of your punishment more! Whether you are in the church or outside the church, the wrath of God rests upon you if you are not yet saved from your sins (John 3.36). Hence do not forget that God is just and He will surely judge sin.

Yet in spite of such a situation, we are not left completely hopeless and having no way of salvation. Truly in ourselves we have no way, but God has a way already prepared for us. But apart from the salvation which He has provided, there is no other way. For the Bible explicitly states that "in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved" (Acts 4.12). God commanded the children of Israel to prepare a lamb. This lamb was their Savior. The blood of the lamb delivered them from death.

Plainly, this paschal or Passover lamb points indisputably to the Lord Jesus Christ. For in various places in the New Testament God declares that "Our Passover . . . hath been sacrificed, even Christ" (1 Cor. 5.7b)—"Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world" (John 1.29b)—"Knowing that ye were redeemed . . . with precious blood, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot, even the blood of Christ" (1 Peter 1.18,19). Just as God used the Passover lamb to deliver the children of Israel in the former days, so He now uses the Lord Jesus—who is our Paschal Lamb—to save us today. Just as the children of Israel were saved by the lamb, so we are saved today by the Lamb of God—the Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you wish to be saved? If you do not wish to be saved, there is nothing more we can say. But if you are willing to confess you are a sinner under the judgment of God and you desire to be saved from His righteous punishment, then let it be known to you most assuredly that God has prepared a salvation for you.

The Lord Jesus Christ has been crucified for our sins. Salvation is already accomplished. All who receive Him as personal Savior shall be saved. Just as the children of Israel had no other way to be delivered except by trusting in the blood of the Passover lamb, so we have no other salvation except by trusting in the precious blood of the Lamb of God. Jesus’ blood alone can today save sinners.

Perhaps we can illustrate it in this fashion: Suppose I were able to go with you back to an Israelite home in Egypt. We would see a father and his son sitting peacefully in the house. There I would ask the father, "I hear that by midnight tonight God is going to smite your son. How then can you sit here so calmly? Are you not afraid?"

The father answers: "Now I do not need to fear because God has prepared a lamb for us. The lamb is able to save our lives. Look how fat and white, how handsome and lovely is my lamb! Listen to how pleasant is the sound of its bleating! My lamb is certainly the best. None of my neighbors’ lambs is as good. Why should I therefore fear since I have such a good and precious lamb?"

What he says sounds good, but let me tell you that when midnight comes, his son will be killed by the Angel of God. Why is this so? Has God’s word failed to be true? Has not this man a lamb?

Indeed, he has a lamb. Yet what God wants is a lamb slain, not a living lamb. A living Christ cannot save us, only the Christ who has died can do so. The Lord cannot save us by His living on earth; He is able to redeem us only by His being crucified. Bethlehem, Nazareth, and Galilee will condemn us; only Calvary will give us eternal life.

Do not be surprised at hearing this. How many would say Jesus is our example? That He is a great Teacher, a great Rabbi? Many will praise the Lord Jesus for His beautiful character, His high morals, His great power, and His noble personality. Yet may I observe that the better the Lord Jesus looks, the worse you appear to be. His good character and noble personality will not save you; rather, it condemns you. God looks at Him and is fully satisfied; but though we may try our best to imitate Him so as to satisfy God, nevertheless, the harder we try, the more manifest becomes our inward sinful nature and our outward evil actions. Do please recognize this fact, that our works can never please God. The more we attempt to learn of Jesus, the more we are aware we cannot, and do not want to, learn from Him.

Do not be deceived. Though you may acknowledge the excellency of the personality and morals of Christ, His excellency belongs to Him alone; you have no part in Him. Let us praise and thank God that His Son does not come into the world to be our example for us to imitate until we are gradually and finally saved. No, no! He sent His Son to this earth to die for us sinners, to accomplish salvation for us. God does not require anything from us, since He has done all. We are sinners, and our penalty is death. Even so, the judgment and penalty which belong to us are now borne by the Lord Jesus. His death is substitutionary—that is to say, His death is really ours, and yet He has made it His own so that we need not be penalized for our sins: "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed" (Is. 53.4,5).

We are sinners (see Rom. 3.9-20). We deserve to die (Ez. 18.4). So that if the Lord Jesus comes only to live, with what can He save us from our sins and perdition? Fortunately, however, He came to die and not just to live. Jesus died for us, bearing our sins and enduring our penalty. Hence due to His substitution, we need not die anymore.

And now we have the way to be saved. But if any should still insist upon treating the Lord Jesus as a model and think of getting saved by imitating Him, he will without question be eternally lost. For no one in the world is able to imitate Christ nor be saved through imitation (see Gal. 2). Only those who believe in His substitutionary death shall be saved (Acts 16.31). The word of God says that "apart from shedding of blood there is no remission" (Heb. 9.22b).

But let us continue with our illustration of the Israelite homes in Egypt. Suppose I am able to visit a second Israelite home. There I ask the parents and their children if it is true that this night God will slay the firstborn. They say yes, and I ask again, "Why are you not afraid? Will not your firstborn soon be smitten?" And their reply is: "We are not afraid, because God has devised a way of salvation. He has prepared a lamb for us, and that lamb is to be killed and to have its blood poured into a basin. Look, our lamb is already slain and the blood is also in the basin. We Israelites have sinned, but this lamb has died for us. Therefore, we are not afraid!"

Nevertheless, when midnight comes, the firstborn of that family is smitten by the righteous wrath of God. And if any of you are in a similar condition, you too will perish!

We need to see where this second household also went wrong. The first home did not have the blood of the lamb; hence the firstborn must perish. But in this second house, they not only have a living lamb, their lamb was slain and its blood was shed. Why then should their firstborn die? Well, although they indeed had the blood, where was it? Let us understand that blood merely in a basin will not save anyone. The blood of the lamb must be smeared on the lintel and side-posts of the door, else it will save no one from death.

Are there not many of you who are like this family? Most likely you are members of some church. You have already heard the gospel of the Lord Jesus. You even know that He died for the sinners of the world. You have read about the truth of His substitutionary death in the Bible and perhaps in the newspaper, and have heard about it from the pulpit. But you have never specifically come to God, accepting His Son as your Savior. You understand that He died for the world, yet you have not accepted Him as the One bearing your sins. You have heard and known in your mind; nevertheless, you have not believed with your heart. You stop after you have heard and known; you do not proceed any further to seek the grace of God. You may even have become tired of hearing the word concerning the cross of Christ. Your problem is: you have not united or mixed faith with the word you have heard (Heb. 4.2). So that you are still a perishing soul. You know, but you have not believed and received the Lord Jesus as your Savior by faith; and hence your knowledge will not help you in the least. Alas, you still belong to hell. The blood which is in the basin but not on the lintel and side-posts cannot save you. What does it profit if your mind knows the gospel but your heart has not believed in the Lord Jesus (Rom. 10.10)? Knowing will not save you; it is believing that saves (Acts 16.31; John 3.16).

Let me therefore ask if you have ever had the blood of Christ sprinkled on your heart? Have you ever accepted the Lord Jesus as your Savior in your heart? I do not ask how old you are or what your family background is or how advanced is your education or even how healthy you are. There is only one question in the world which is of most vital consequence, and that is—Are you saved? Do you have eternal life? Has the precious blood of the Lamb been applied to your heart? This is the most important question with which anyone will ever be confronted.

Blood in the basin but not applied to the lintel and the door-posts of the heart will not save anyone. Although you may know how the Lord Jesus has died for you, you will still perish if you do not apply his blood on your heart by faith. The dark night of judgment is approaching. The Angel of God who punishes sinners is coming soon. Eternity is before you. Life or death is everlasting. Why then not appropriate the blood immediately? For what are you waiting? Oh, may you stop and pray this sinner’s prayer: "O God, have mercy on me a sinner. I am willing to believe in the Lord Jesus as my personal Savior now. Please forgive all my sins." If you do this sincerely, the Lord will save you; therefore, come!

That evening the children of Israel dipped a bunch of hyssop in the blood and put the blood on the outside of the door. If we depend on the precious blood of the Lord Jesus, we too must not be lacking in our "bunch of hyssop." According to the Bible, the hyssop is the smallest of all plants (cf. 1 Kings 4.33)—something easily to be despised. May I speak frankly? I have never seen a proud person willing to believe in the Lord Jesus. Unless we look upon ourselves as sinners and take the place of sinners, we will not accept Him as our Savior. Accordingly, let the proud be proud no more. Prostrate yourself at the feet of the Lord Jesus, acknowledge that you are a sinner, accept His salvation, and be saved.

When the blood was in the basin, the children of Israel were not safe; only when the blood was applied to the lintel and side-posts were they secure. Similarly for us today, if we know the salvation of the Lord Jesus yet do not accept it with faith, we shall always be in danger. But as soon as anyone believes in his heart and is cleansed by the precious blood, that one is forever secure. How sad, though, that many who have believed in the Lord Jesus do not realize they are safe and will not be judged anymore!

Let us observe what happens as I go to visit another Israelite family in Egypt. I am now visiting the third household. When I come to the door, I see that the blood of the lamb has been put on the lintel and the side-posts. As I enter the house, I also see the slain lamb, the basin, and the bunch of hyssop. But the family is sitting together crying. Their firstborn is weeping and trembling. And his face is most pale. Such a sight indicates to me that a great calamity is about to befall this household. So I inquire of them why they are so grieved. They answer: "Sir, do you not know that at midnight something disastrous is going to happen? God will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt. And our son is among the list of those to be slain!" As they say this, they raise their voices and cry once again.

"But has not God provided for you a way of salvation?" I say to them. "Has He not commanded you to slay a lamb and put its blood on the lintel and the side-posts? And have you not already sprinkled the blood on your door? Why then are you so worried?"

"Truly God has so spoken, and we have done accordingly," they answer, "but we now do not feel we are safe."

I try my best to comfort them and tell them not to worry nor to cry because they have the precious blood and therefore they are on safe ground. Yet they still worry anyway, for they do not consider themselves safe simply by applying the blood according to the divine instructions.

Judge for yourselves if the worry of this family is warranted. Should they be so grieved? You may laugh at their foolishness, for having put on the blood, they should now feel secure; and any worry or anxiety afterwards you may judge to be self-inflicted suffering. Yet do not you and I frequently commit the same mistake? You have believed in the Lord Jesus and have accepted Him as your personal Savior. You have applied His precious blood on your heart’s door and have already entered into a position of peace. You are now saved and shall not perish. Why, then, should you still be fearful? Why should you worry so? The moment you believe in the Lord Jesus, you are safe and secure. If you have not accepted Him as Savior, you should worry and cry because you continue to be condemned for your sins (John 3.18). But if you have believed in the substitutionary death of Christ on the cross, you have neither reason nor obligation to worry and to cry because you are already a saved person. You should rejoice and be glad for God has already saved you. You do not save yourself, but God has saved you. How amazing this grace is! You ought to begin to praise the Lord for His grace and to grieve no more. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life" (John 5.24). You are today a saved person. Heaven is indeed yours.

Many people do not understand that they are saved simply by believing in the Lord Jesus. Their difficulty lies in their not feeling saved. People often tell me they have believed in the Lord Jesus as their Savior, yet they do not feel themselves saved. I would urge all who are like this to please read Exodus 12.13b: "When I see the blood, I will pass over you, and there shall no plague be upon you to destroy you." Who sees the blood? God, not the firstborn. This blood is put on the outside lintel and the doorposts and hence the firstborn cannot see it. What would be the use even if he were able to see it? But God affirms that He will see the blood, and that when He sees it He will not put anyone to death. Nobody really knows how precious the blood of Jesus is. We cannot comprehend how greatly God esteems the blood of His Son. Yet He declares emphatically that when He sees the blood, He will pass over. He will save all who have applied to their hearts the precious blood of His Son.

Consequently, your duty is to believe in the substitutionary death and the shed blood of the Lord Jesus on the cross. God himself will see this blood. And He will save you whether you feel good or bad. Your feeling has nothing to do with this matter of salvation, for the Bible does not say that if you feel saved you are saved, but that if you feel not saved you will perish. It simply but clearly states that when God sees the blood He will save you. For this reason, do not rely on your vacillating feeling. The word of God is alone trustworthy. He sees that you have believed in the Lord Jesus and thus He will save you. Why then be afraid? Though you may not feel anything, God has seen you. None of the children of Israel who stayed in any of the houses could see the blood on the door. It is therefore no surprise that you do not feel anything.

Some believers often worry lest they not be saved. The reason is that though they have believed the Lord Jesus to be their Savior, they frequently fall and are weak. The more they look at themselves, the more they consider themselves neither saved nor worthy to be saved. They honestly believe in the Lord Jesus and they know the grace of the Lord is great; nevertheless, when they reflect on their failures, they can hardly believe themselves to be saved. Man’s word, however, is vain; let us read instead the word of God: "When I see the blood, I will pass over you" (Ex. 12.13b). On what ground does God save us? What does He see? The Holy Spirit will answer that it is none other than the blood of Jesus. God does not save us because we have changed or we have done good works; He saves us purely because of the precious blood of His beloved Son.

The Bible does not say, "When I see your good works I will pass over you"; neither does it say, "When I see your perfect life I will pass over you"; it simply says, "When I see the blood, I will pass over you." The blood is that to which we ought to pay attention. What God sees is the blood, not us, nor our good works. Whether saved or lost is a matter judged according to blood or no blood. You may be the best person in the world, but if you do not believe in the precious blood of the Lord Jesus you are a perishing soul. On the other hand, though you may be the worst person in the whole world, you will be instantly saved if you apply the precious blood of Jesus by faith. The precious blood is able to save sinners! The precious blood is especially used to save sinners! "By grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory" (Eph. 2.8,9). Our salvation depends completely on the grace of God. It has absolutely no relation to our works. If you look at yourself you will deem yourself unfit to be saved, and you will have no peace. Look instead at the Lord Jesus, and trust Him wholly so that you may find peace in your heart. Though you are untrustworthy, He is trustworthy. The more you look at Him, the purer and holier you become.

The children of Israel were saved not because of their own merits, but because of the blood of the lamb. The Egyptians perished not because of their evil deeds, but because they did not have the blood of the lamb. In just the same way, our salvation or perdition depends solely on the precious blood of the Lamb of God. If there is the precious blood, we are saved beyond any doubt; otherwise, how precarious is our position!
Let us now leave the children of Israel and visit the Egyptians. Suppose I enter one of their houses and I see that this Egyptian family is enjoying itself very much. I therefore ask the members of this family how they can afford to be merry when God has said that He will smite their firstborn that very night.

"Sir, our son is different from other sons," they reply; "he has never killed anybody nor set fire to any house. He is just and honest. He does everything according to his conscience. How could God punish such a good person as he?"

"But I notice you do not have any blood of a lamb on your door," I respond. "God will surely not pass over you but will smite you instead."

"Other people may need the blood of the lamb," they retort, "but for good people such as we are, we do not need any blood."

Well, we know the story. The Angel of Death came upon that Egyptian family at midnight and their firstborn son lay dead as a result.

Let me warn you that the ultimate end of all who trust in their own righteousness and not in the precious blood of the Lord Jesus will be eternal perdition. Granted that you may be better than your neighbours and that you may be fairly honest in the eyes of men, nevertheless, do you really believe your little amount of merits can deliver you from the wrath of the most righteous God? He looks at whatever righteousness we have with utter contempt. In His eyes, we are still sinners. We shall perish if we do not have the blood of the Lamb of God to atone for us. Although the children of Israel were stiffnecked (as we see them later in their wilderness experience), yet they are saved because they had the blood of the lamb to atone for their sins. The Egyptians might be good; they nonetheless must perish because they did not have the blood of the lamb to atone for their sins.

Whether we are saved or lost does not depend on ourselves nor on our works but solely on whether or not we believe and accept the Redeemer who died for us. In reading the last book of the Bible (Revelation) you will find that the people who are in heaven are there not because of their own works but because of the precious blood of the Lamb. The saved can go to heaven because "they [have] washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (7.9-17, esp. v.14).

Day after day flies swiftly by until the hour of the judgment of God comes: "And it came to pass at midnight, that Jehovah smote all the first-born in the land of Egypt" (Ex. 12.29a). Such is the consequence of not believing the gospel of Jesus Christ! For the sake of the coming eternity, I beg you not to trust in your own works. Do not make excuse nor delay any longer. Quickly believe in the Lord Jesus. As long as there is today, come quickly: "Behold, now is the acceptable time; behold, now is the day of salvation" (2 Cor. 6.2b).

"There was not a house where there was not one dead" (Ex. 12.30c). Every Egyptian house had one dead in it, but in every house of the Israelites none died. The fact was, however, that both in the house of the Israelite and in the house of the Egyptian there was one dead. Except that the one that died in every house of the Israelite was a lamb, whereas the one that died in the house of the Egyptian was a person. Hence there must be one dead in every house. If the one dead is not a person, then it must be a lamb. How fearful and how very serious! Either a person died or a lamb was slain!

I do not know which course you prefer—whether you wish to bear your own sins and die or to believe in the Lord Jesus the Lamb of God who has already died for you. Either you die or He dies! If you do not trust Him who died, then you yourself will also die. For someone must die. But praise and thank God that "while we were yet sinners, Christ [already] died for us" (Rom. 5.8b). Today you need not die, you need not perish for your sins. If you continue to perish, it is not because you are a sinner but because you will not believe in the name of God’s only begotten Son (John 3.18). Do not let Christ say to you, "Ye will not [to] come to me, that ye may have life" (John 5.40). Yet "he that will, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22.17d). How I hope you will to come. Come to God with a believing heart and pray, "O God, I am a sinner deserving to perish, but I believe in Your Son who has died for me. Please forgive all my transgressions and save me hereafter."

[Taksuru]

AlwaysLoved, you are a sick dálayyaisorin. You defend a genocidal god who for no good reason killed every single firstborn of Egypt, and yet you people on this forum dare call me evil for thinking that human sacrifice is honourable. You are twisted and cruel, and I hope all Christians and Jews distance themselves from your bizarre and dishonourable thinking. You are also dishonest, for it was "God" who hardened the Pharaoh's heart so that he would not let the Hebrews go; it wasn't the Egyptians that refused to set them free. The god you worship is nasty and petty and above all evil. What had the firstborn of Egypt done to him? What had all the Egyptian people done to him? Surely not all Egyptians were responsible for the crimes of the ruling elite, or perhaps you think that way. Do you not realise that what you are doing here is condoning genocide. That's a big "sin" if anything. Genocide is really the worst of crimes, way worse than rejecting Jesus or taking your silly little lord's name in vain. And yet you are defending it. You twisted demon, you gnarled dálayyaisorin, you foul, profane dog! The gods spit on you and so do I and all honourable people of this world. May your ancestors refuse to acknowledge you as their decendant.

Midnight sounded and the Lord smote all the firstborn of the Egyptians whose lintels and side-posts had no blood on them.

God, as you envision him, is a very nasty creature, a beast even the death gods would hate with passion. Killing defenseless people is void of honour, and killing children is even worse. Killing defenseless children en masse is just about the most dishonourable there is. I cannot see what you Christians find so attractive in that gnarled gnome god of yours, Yahweh.

Do not be careless, neither forget this fact: that you are a sinner; your sins will be punished; and the punishment to be received is eternal perdition by suffering forever in the lake of fire.

Why should people be punished by eternal damnation? That is not a good way to punish people. It is indicative of a sadistic and sick mind, void of love, honour, and integrity. Yahweh is a cosmic dictator who makes Hitler look mild by comparison, a psychopath with no like, the offspring of a dog and a redzo mating.

Gods who act like dictators are deposed. Yahweh is a dictator, and he ought to be deposed.

[AlwaysLoved]

The reason all the first borns died was not for no reason you assumed. Rather, due to the plagues the wheat was infected and was fed to the firstborns first to keep them alive in this time of starvation due to the plagues. Starvation still happens today. Humans are uncaring to each other so they face the consequences and often the innocent get caught in the crossfire. This is quite unlike you murdering someone and not going to jail for it. Thank God you go to jail for your desire to murder people when you actually do it.

Jews and Christians say we believe in Exodus 12, so we can't distance ourselves from that.

God hardened the heart of the Pharaoh because he already rejected God. Grace does not come upon the Pharaoh. The Bible even says, the Pharaoh hardened his own heart, thus God gives him no grace as his heart hardens further. This is how God hardens the heart of the Pharaoh. The Egyptians enslaved the Jews for 430 years. They were quite reluctant to let them go.

How silly you ask what did the Egyptians do to God? They enslaved His chosen people for 430 years. Now you condone slavery too? Shame on you. Have you no morals at all?

Genocide is what Hitler did. That is quite unlike people dying of infected crops for their sins. Genocide is unjust; God using nature to punish sinners is just. You are like Hitler, because he too made the Jews a human sacrifice. Your killing humans for sacrifice is genocide. Thank God the Jews wiped out those evil nations in Canaan.

There is no greater sin than rejecting God's love in His Son dying on the cross for your sins. He was murdered and you condone it, for you admit you killing people as human sacrifices is good.

You shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain. You'll be judged for that.

My ancestors and your ancestors needed to be born-again, just like you and I.

We Christians know the penalty of sin is death-death physically and death spiritually and the second death which is hell, where you will spend an eternity consciously and bodily aware of your wrong choice.

You're misunderstanding the punishment that is before you. Your punishment is eternal separation from God, because you have decided for yourself you will forever reject God and what His Son did for you on the cross to atone for your sins. Hence the Bible says you are already condemned (John 3.18). You have this one life to decide, but after you die, then comes judgment. The judgment upon you will be an eternity in hell, because that is what you want. Nobody is forcing you. It's your very own choice, and you are without excuse.

You can never depose that which is uncreated. How proud you must be to think you can do that.

[Taksuru]

The reason all the first borns died was not for no reason you assumed. Rather, due to the plagues the wheat was infected and was fed to the firstborns first to keep them alive in this time of starvation due to the plagues.

Don't give me that nonsense. Don't dance around your opponent but meet him in battle and cross your sword with his. You know as well as I do that you are lying, making up falsehoods, you dálayyaisorin (this word, which I find fitting when describing you, means 'child of a Dálayyan' and refers to the rape-victims from the Sack of Chayang twenty-five years ago, and it is a very grave insult). Read what you've written yourself, and then read what the Bible says, and see if you can repeat that nonsense about "plagues" and "diseased wheat" with a straight face. Let us for a moment assume your explanation is valid. In that case, how come the firstborn of the Hebrews who painted their doors with blood survived, while the firstborn of those who didn't died? Are you trying to tell me that the disease could somehow differentiate between those with blood-crosses on their doors and those without? That is nonsense, and besides, I think you are just trying to sidestep me and my arguments. For further information, the Bible does not agree with you:

[Exodus 11:4] So Moses said, "This is what the LORD says: 'About midnight I will go throughout Egypt.

[Exodus 11:5] Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. (Did they feed their precious wheat to the cattle? And shouldn't the cattle be dead if there really was a starvation?)

[Exodus 11:6] There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again.

[Exodus 11:10] Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country. (So in other words, the Lord really wants this to happen).

Don't feed me your idiocy about a drought and 'sick' wheat. Plants do not get the same diseases as humans. Besides, if there really was starvation, they would eat the cattle and the dogs, not feed the cattle and the dogs. Do you see the difference? Don't lie to me, you lowlife. Have some honour and walk the ksavai avatagin like a man.

Starvation still happens today.

And that is a tragedy, so? Why doesn't your god go down and fix it up for all those suffering people? Perhaps, just perhaps, he is not as omnipotent as you think.

Humans are uncaring to each other so they face the consequences and often the innocent get caught in the crossfire.

Anyone who harms an innocent, or an unarmed person, is a despicable and dishonourable coward. Your god is just that.

This is quite unlike you murdering someone and not going to jail for it.

I do not murder people. I have never taken part in a human sacrifice either, for I was not born in Tinzir. My father, who is a priest, once saw a man getting sacrificed, though, but not up close. If I murder anyone, of course I go to jail for it.

Jews and Christians say we believe in Exodus 12, so we can't distance ourselves from that.

Not all Jews and Christians believe in every single word of the Bible. A fair deal of them are not inerrantists.

God hardened the heart of the Pharaoh because he already rejected God. Grace does not come upon the Pharaoh.

Nonsense. It doesn't matter what the Pharaoh believed. God hardened his heart precisely because he wanted to kill all those Egyptian children.

How silly you ask what did the Egyptians do to God?

It's not silly, and I will ask you again: what did all the Egyptian children who died at the hands of your psychopath freak god do that was horrible enough to warrant death penalty.

They enslaved His chosen people for 430 years.

Some Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews for 430 years. All the people of the country cannot be held accountable for the crimes of the ruling classes.

Now you condone slavery too?

Slavery is a honourable practice, genocide is not.

That is quite unlike people dying of infected crops for their sins.

God specifically says: "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt." That means he will go through the country, killing the (innocent) firstborn for no good reason. It doesn't say, "people will die from infected crops." The verse is pretty clear with regards to how the firstborn children will die and who will cause it.

Genocide is unjust; God using nature to punish sinners is just.

I could just as well say, "God using Hitler to punish sinners is just." Don't give me that nonsense.

You are like Hitler, because he too made the Jews a human sacrifice.

I would never sacrifice a person who does not agree to be sacrificed, and I do not think a Jew would.

Your killing humans for sacrifice is genocide.

No, it is not. If you think I am wrong, try to back up your arguments. But as you see, we only sacrifice a few at a time, and they are always other Tinzireans.

Thank God the Jews wiped out those evil nations in Canaan.

So Hitler is evil for wiping out the Jews, and the Jews are good for wiping out the Canaanites?

There is no greater sin than rejecting God's love in His Son dying on the cross for your sins.

I beg to differ. I think many people beg to differ. I think all the millions of people who have died in horrible ways all over the globe would beg to differ.

He was murdered and you condone it, for you admit you killing people as human sacrifices is good.

Jesus was a sissy. He was no man at all, he was a coward who let people nail him to a cross. A real warrior dies in battle or by the sacrificial mace of a ritual priest, not on a wooden cross as a punishment for inciting some rebellion (I am not implying that Jesus tried to incite rebellion, but that is what he was sentenced to death for).

You shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain. You'll be judged for that.

And you shouldn't lie and defend genocide. You'll be killed for that.

[Churchwork]

The explanation of how each plague effected the next to the point wheat was infected is well known by scholars. Read Colin J. Humphrey's, The Miracles of Exodus that explain this in detail. The reason the firstborn of the Jews survived is because they lived in the land of Goshen which was afar off of where the Egyptians lived and so they were not affected by these plagues to the point their wheat was infected. It was not obvious the wheat was infected, otherwise they would not have eaten it. Your problem is you come assuming the Bible is wrong instead of trying to understand God's Word. That is disingenuous.

You get an infraction for name-calling, plus your crassness is increasing.

Exodus 9:34 And when Pharaoh saw that the rain, the hail, and the thunder had ceased, he sinned yet more; and he hardened his heart, he and his servants.

1. The Bible states the fact that Pharaoh’s heart was hard four times (Exodus 7:14, 22; 8:19; 9:35).
2. The Bible says Pharaoh hardened his own heart three times (Exodus 8:15, 32; 9:34).
3. The Bible says God hardened Pharaoh’s heart ten times. 10 is the number for power. The 10 hardenings and 10 plagues demonstrate Jehovah’s power over Pharaoh, Egypt and their gods. (Exodus 4:21; 7:3, 13; 9:12; 10:1, 20, 27; 11:10; 14:4, 8).

Which is true? Did God harden Pharaoh or did Pharaoh harden himself? Both are true!

Plagues happen for a reason. It is not realistic for there to be no consequences, since sin has an effect. You keep overlooking this fact.

Realize it is wrong then; if you murder someone you got to jail for it, because it is wrong. It is a sin.

I don't know any Christians that are not inerrants, nor do you. You assume way to may people are Christians which takes pride. God intended for His exact Word of God to be administered.

God does not want to kill anyone, but some must die in their sins. That is the law of sin and has consequence. It matters what the Pharaoh believed, for his belief rejects God for his own selfishnesses, so he remained unsaved and bound for hell.

When you enslave a people for 430 years, there are consequences, and many will perish as a result as they did in Egypt. Your conscience is so dead you condone slavery and if you had it your way you would put the blacks back in slavery. You're a bad man.

When God went throughout Egypt and killed the firstborns it was not by magic, but because the natural consequences of the plagues infected the crops. A great many firstborns died that day, no matter how old they were. They were fed the last of the crops which was infected because they were the firstborns.

God uses evil to punish sinners. He lets Satan reign for a short while. Because the nations of the world kept appeasing Hitler, they suffered the consequences. Who can deny this? The Jews are the suffering servant and the Jews too are punished for rejecting their own Messiah. There is no greater sin. They were given the greatest responsibility of all the nations. God is quite complicated in how He makes everything work in sync, but know He is flawless in all that He does. He is righteous and holy.

Suicide is a sure way to Hell. Your willingness to murder people who want to be murdered is sick and twisted. You're a bad guy. It doesn't matter who you murder, murder is wrong; that's why you admit you go to jail.

The Jews were doing God's will wiping out those evil nations in Canaan for practicing child sacrifice like you do. God's judgment upon you, even now, will bring you down, and there is nothing you can do about it if you are unwilling to repent to the cross of Christ. Hitler was wrong to murder the Jews. Murder is wrong.

However a person dies, still rejecting what Jesus did for you on the cross is the worse sin of all, for no person suffered in their death more than Jesus did. God created the world and He is rejected. Men even try to kill Him.

Jesus was not sentenced to death for rebellion, for the Romans found no fault with Him. He was put to death at the request of the Pharisees because Jesus said He is God, the God of Israel, and that is what was written on the cross: King of the Jews. He did it write that, the Romans did. They knew He was the King of the Jews.

Those nations no longer exist God wiped out through Israel. They will never come back. They received their judgment. Their sin of human sacrifices has been abolished by their removal from this planet. There is still some remnants such as yourself that God will wipe out as well in due time. You call it genocide; I call it justice. You will kill enough of your own people in human sacrifices; and God will finish off the rest of you in some way or another for you who will never repent. Then you will be resurrected for Hell. How sad for you.

[Taksuru]

The explanation of how each plague effected the next to the point wheat was infected is well known by scholars. Read Colin J. Humphrey's, The Miracles of Exodus that explain this in detail.

This explanation is not "well known" by scholars, for in that case I would have heard about it. Scholars, in case you want to know, generally agree that Exodus never happened and that the Hebrews were never slaves in the land of Egypt, and there are many books on this subject, written by Jewish as well as Christian and nonreligious archaeologists. Surely you do not want to go against mainstream science? Furthermore, you are being deceptive--of the Ten "Plagues" of Egypt, only one was an actual disease, that is, the boils (Exodus 9:8-12). There was no succession of sickness that resulted in wheat becoming infected. You will also have to take into account the fact that very few (if any!) sicknesses that affect humans affect plants as well. Stop with the apologetics and answer the question--did Yahweh, or did he not, pass through the land of Egypt mercilessly slaughtering people?

The reason the firstborn of the Jews survived is because they lived in the land of Goshen which was afar off of where the Egyptians lived and so they were not affected by these plagues to the point their wheat was infected.

Then why did they have to mark their doors and bedposts? It seems to me like you are downplaying the role of your god here, Churchwork.

You get an infraction for name-calling, plus your crassness is increasing.

Why do you even care? dálayyaisorin does not mean anything to you, and you wouldn't understand it's meaning unless you know something about my culture. As for my crassness, I have no idea what you are babbling on about. Please tell me.

Which is true? Did God harden Pharaoh or did Pharaoh harden himself? Both are true!

Let us assume this is true. Why didn't Yahweh instead soften Pharaoh's heart? Why didn't he force the Pharaoh to let the Hebrews go? Why did he have to resort to genocide and merciless, dishonourable bloodshed?

Plagues happen for a reason.

And that reason is that Yahweh wanted it to happen, according to your book. So?

It is not realistic for there to be no consequences, since sin has an effect. You keep overlooking this fact.

I don't believe in sin. You could say we Tinzireans believe in something like karma, though that's the wrong word, really. You will have to come up with a better argument.

Realize it is wrong then; if you murder someone you got to jail for it, because it is wrong. It is a sin.

If I murder (and to me, legitimate sacrifice of captured warriors is not, in any way, murder) a person, I will indeed go to jail. I don't need sin to explain why, only pragmatic morals. A society punishes anyone who in any way is a threat to it. Societies want to stick around, and if there's a person who presents an obstacle to that end, society will try it's best to get that person out of the way. Sin doesn't even enter the equation. It's about preserving society, nothing else.

I don't know any Christians that are not inerrants, nor do you.

Oh, I know lots of them. Some are Lutherans, others Catholics, and two of them are Mormons. None of my Christian friends think that the Bible is inerrant. They all think of it as a flawed book that while it might be inspired by God, it is in no way the absolute truth. And they are all, no matter what silly objections you have, undeniably Christian.

God does not want to kill anyone, but some must die in their sins.

Why must some people die? Stop dancing around the issue. God is, if we are to believe you, omipotent, and that means he can do anything he wants. He does not need to kill; he can turn people into Christians merely by snapping his fingers, if he is truly omnipotent. He can make "sinful" people harmless and good merely by pointing at them and saying 'no more sin!' or whatever. He does not need to kill.

When you enslave a people for 430 years, there are consequences, and many will perish as a result as they did in Egypt.

You can absolve slavery without resorting to genocide. Britain outlawed slavery in the early nineteenth century, and that happened without any innocent people dying.

Your conscience is so dead you condone slavery and if you had it your way you would put the blacks back in slavery.

I have a dark (you would say 'black') complexion myself. I am a 'black,' as you so eloquently put it. My entire clan is 'black,' because we come from the south of Tinzir, where everyone is 'black.' We don't look like Africans when it comes to how our bodies are built, but we are certainly black. I would never want to reinstate racial slavery. I said slavery is honourable, nothing else. Tinzirean slavery is very much different from the kind of slavery that was common in the US.

A great many firstborns died that day, no matter how old they were. They were fed the last of the crops which was infected because they were the firstborns.

Your nonsense about wheat is already refuted. Oh, and by the way, if you read the Bible, you'll see that also the firstborn of the cattle died that night. I suppose they fed their precious wheat to their sheep?

Suicide is a sure way to Hell.

I beg to differ, of course. Suicide is the best way to remedy yourself if you do something that is so dishonourable you can no longer stand being alive. You might have heard about the Japanese custom of seppuku or hara-kiri. We have something similar as well, but we call it ngaka. The person in question stabs himself in the throat with a long knife, the omon, and then he bleeds to death as his relatives and friends are watching. It is a honourable way to die.

The Jews were doing God's will wiping out those evil nations in Canaan for practicing child sacrifice like you do.

Oh, but we don't practice child sacrifice, and we never have.

However a person dies, still rejecting what Jesus did for you on the cross is the worse sin of all, for no person suffered in their death more than Jesus did.

Please, inform me, how do you know Jesus suffered more in his death than anyone else? Don't you think the thousands of other people that the Romans crucified suffered just as much as your saviour? And, by the way, if your religion is correct, then the vast majority of the world's population suffers more than Jesus when they die, because they go to Hell for all eternity. That is nothing compared to being nailed to a cross, I gather.

You call it genocide; I call it justice.

Genocide is genocide. It is not justice. I can tell the difference, I swear.

[Churchwork]

You are too busy in your cult, so you can't be expected to hear about Christian apologetics enough. I don't know any Christian apologists who say Exodus never happened and that the Jews were not slaves for 430 years as quoted in Scripture, and you weren't able to cite any. You couldn't document any individual Christians who believe your claims. Science does not agree with you. Crops were infected as was explained-when frogs had to leave the water and locusts infected the crops. I saw a documentary where there is this really large cave and the feces of the locusts in it was a mile high.

The door posts and lintels were marked because the blood is precious of the perfect lamb of God to pay the price for sins as all sin gets penalized. Today the blood of the Lamb washes away our sins in an appeal for a clean conscience. If they did not do what God said, some uncertain negative consequence would surely have arisen. Instead they were protected by the precious blood. In the blood there is life.

This is a forum for English users, not to speak in tongues, so when you try to insult people with foreign verbiage this is not very congenial. That's what you get an infraction for.

God is not a God of magic. He doesn't force people. He hardens the heart of the Pharaoh to the point until he lets the Jews go. Should God soften the Pharaoh's heart after the Pharaoh sins more? Should good be given to those who sin more? Of course not. Don't accuse God of genocide, but ask yourself why you commit genocide through murder and human sacrifice? You do it because of the evil in your heart. God does not commit genocide in releasing the Jews, but gives the Jews freedom for abiding in Him. They Egyptians brought it on themselves. Think of it this way. If you sin enough times, the consequences will escalate. So it was true with the Egyptians. It took 10 plagues to finally release the Jews when they should never have enslaved them in the first place. I have already explained this and you keep asking for an explanation which is getting boring. That's what infractions are for so reasoned people don't have to keep repeating themselves.

There is no "so"...but, righteously God does things for a reason. As you would expect from a righteous and holy God.

It doesn't matter whether you deny sin or not. The fact remains, the world thinks you are sinning, for murder and human sacrifice is wrong and you are put into jail if you are found out by the authorities of your country. You said you won't be convicted merely on the evidence by you typing in these forums admitting you have killed 3 people. These are pragmatic morals to throw someone in jail for their sin. A society that murders its citizens is a society that will fall. A society that is preserved is one that will not condone murder.

Mormons are not Christians, because they do not believe in the Trinity. Catholics are not considered Christians, because they worship a sinless goddess they call Mary (in a Quaternity), they reject once-saved-always-saved, and have other false teachings like popery and the 1000 years now. Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christians. Lutherans have quite similar problems as well. Just because you are in a denomination, sect or cult, doesn't mean you are a Christian. God's standards are higher than yours. Like I said, you think people are Christians who are not Christians. That's your problem. The Bible speaks against many false Christians, so you are contradicting the Bible in claiming people to be Christians who are not.

Christians believe the Bible is inerrant, and we believe in the precious blood of Christ to save us from our sins and His resurrection to give us eternal life. If you don't believe this, then you are not a Christian. Hundreds if not thousands of verses prove this fact, so though you may believe something or think others believe something else, they don't believe in the Word of God as it has been presented as what defines a Christian. You see how full of mistaken assumptions you are. 1 in 3 people in the world calls themselves Christians, but more likely only 1 in 100 who calls themselves Christians are actually saved. We are a little flock the Bible says. It seems there is every kind of grey out there, but God's plan is definite.

All sin leads to death physically before our appointed time and sin leads to the second death which is hell. Even if you sin one little sin, that is the consequence. God is not a God of magic. He must do everything realistically. There is a cause and effect to all things. By demanding He operate non-realistically, you only condemn yourself; though shall not tempt the Lord thy God. Lots of people say if only they had a sign they would believe in Him. They are really just asking for parlor tricks. The sign was He walked the earth for 3 years, died on the cross for your sins and was resurrected. There is no better sign than the work of the cross. The irony is even if they were given a parlor trick they still would not believe, so why should God even give you a parlor trick?

Because Egyptians would never let the Jews go, there was left only one thing to finally to let His people go, and that was the killing of the firstborns. Only then did the Pharaoh capitulate. Don't think God did not try everything else possible. It was only because God was left with no other choice. His people would not remain in slavery.

Slavery is wrong. I am glad you are against the slavery of the blacks or your dark skin, but you have a contradiction, because you still condone slavery. Your doubletongue is your problem. No kind of slavery is acceptable, not the kind of slavery enforced on the Jews for 430 years, nor any other kind. Today even inordinately low economic class that is debilitating is wrong and a kind of slavery. You should repent of your desire to reenact slavery upon people, whether white, black, brown, etc.

Yes, the infected wheat was fed to their most precious animals, the first-born among them. Except the firstborn lambs in Goshen did not have this problem because their wheat was not infected. It is because Goshen was not near the area where the locusts came and frogs jumped out of the river. These exact scientific findings corroborate how the wheat was infected by such an infestation. It's all documented in Colin J. Humphrey's, The Miracles of Exodus. I am able to explain all the miracles in Exodus naturally.

It may be honorable for Satan to convince you to kill yourself, but to God it is a sure way to Hell. It is the fastest way to Hell. God did not create you for you to kill yourself (that would be pointless), but if you want to kill yourself, then you are free to do so and go to Hell. Your choice.

You're a ball of contradictions. You said "human sacrifice is honourable...I would never sacrifice a person who does not agree to be sacrificed...we only sacrifice a few at a time"; then you said, "we don't practice child sacrifice, and we never have". Everyone is a child of God made in His image, no matter how old you are. When you are tested on your false teachings, you turn an about face. Pathetic. You convince people to want to kill themselves so you can sacrifice them by murdering them. That is what Muslims do to when they create suicide mass-murderers to practice your similar genocide. That's nothing but demented and twisted. You're a bad guy.

We are talking about specifically the act of death itself. Nobody suffered more than Jesus did. He was flogged down to his bone. His head was pricked with pine tips. He was stabbed in the side with a spear so the liquid surrounding his chest cavity poured out. He was spat on, He is God paid to suffer the ultimate sin, separation from the Father. His chosen people whom He loved rejected Him. When people die in suffering it is not nearly as bad as this. His pain was excruciating and all you do is show your hatred for Him. I can't emphasize enough, you're a bad guy. I am grateful to God there is a Hell so that His sons and daughters don't have to spend even a second in your presence. We will no longer shed a tear for you when the new city and new earth starts.

Genocide is wrong. Killing first-borns is the consequence of 430 years of slavery and is the last resort. It had to come to that, just like it had to come to the Jews removing those nations that like you, practiced human and child sacrifices. Those nations no longer exist. Amen. And your small cult that almost nobody knows about has to remain incognito in its act of barbarianism and murder.

[Apoche]

Churchwork, for your ridiculous argument about locusts and frogs infecting the wheat to work out, you need to show that there exist a disease that has the following traits:

a) Frogs and locusts spread it.

b) Wheat can be affected by it.

c) Humans can get it from eating affected wheat.

d) It is always fatal for humans. Every single person who gets sick dies, invariably.

e) It kills off cattle as well.

Now, tell me what disease has all of these qualities, and then maybe we move on.

[Churchwork]

There are various kinds of such ways wheat can get infected in that area of the world. These are proven scientific facts. It is discussed in Miracles of Exodus by Colin J. Humphreys. It may be ridiculous for you because you lack the information to understand and you are puffed up in your limited knowledge which takes immense pride, but your mind will be set at ease when you read that book. It answered all my pertinent questions surrounding the events of Exodus. I even know how naturally speaking a cane can turn into a snake. I am sure this boggles your mind. When you realize the answer you will say to yourself, Why didn't I think of that.

His book is in your public library. That's where I read it.

[Strengthened]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt

God did not slain the first born because of the plagues and that is the most asinine thing I have ever heard regarding this amazing action of FREEDOM for the oppressed race and faith of Jews.

You guys are simply twisted in your interpretation of the facts of the Holy Bible and it is no surprise that you only have a few members.