What's Wrong With Gnosticism and Deism?

**Churchwork** · 03-31-2007, 04:30 AM

Why does the God of the Bible trump the god of gnosticism?

Compare God of the Bible who does not leave His creation unattended, for that would be unrighteous, unholy and evil. But the god of deism says he left his creation unattended. The righteousness of the God of the Bible trumps the god of gnosticism for a righteous God would not let an evil god to create us.

Apoche · 07-09-2008, 06:23 AM

The Demiurge (that's the "evil" god you are referring to) is often cast as acting out of incompetence and arrogance in Gnosticism, rather than pure malice. To say that the Gnostic God--Sophia, for short--let an evil god create mankind is also besides the point. Gnostics believe that matter is fundamentally evil and encompasses only suffering, so it was not Sophia's intention that mankind would be created in the first place.

**Churchwork** · 07-09-2008, 09:57 PM

Incompetence, arrogance, malice makes no difference when it comes to the god of gnosticism. They are all unruly. It is an evil idea, not unlike scientology who says we were created by evil aliens.

It is not beside the point if there is an evil creator of gnosticism, for with such a sinful assumption of an evil creator, you have no recourse, and your only legitimate option is to continue in that evil in keeping with your creator. Your false ideas lead to false consequences. There is a cause and effect in all things.

Whereas God has His redemptive design and makes some men and women children of God who receive His only begotten Son. Nothing is better. We will spend an eternity with God in the new city and new earth. I can't wait. I have a foretaste of it even now in my resurrected life.

To assume matter is nothing but evil is the evil spirit's suggestion implanted in your mind, but with a little observation it is totally unfounded. Walk down to your nearest park and observe the pond or the river and how beautiful it is. This is not evil. Nor is giving birth evil. It is a wonderful glorious moment. I experience no suffering in saying these words.

The Sophie gnostic god says it is better God never created, but God says His creation was made perfect. Though Satan and man sinfully corrupted nature, God can restore it. That is exactly what He is doing in His redemptive design. It's awesome!

Apoche · 07-10-2008, 04:54 AM

It is not beside the point if there is an evil creator of gnosticism, for with such a sinful assumption of an evil creator, you have no recourse, and your only legitimate option is to continue in that evil in keeping with your creator.

If what you are saying were true, how come humans are not perfect? God is perfect, and He created us (you claim), so I don't see why you keep on asserting that there is sin in the world.

To assume matter is nothing but evil is the evil spirit's suggestion implanted in your mind, but with a little observation it is totally unfounded. Walk down to your nearest park and observe the pond or the river and how beautiful it is. This is not evil. Nor is giving birth evil. It is a wonderful glorious moment. I experience no suffering in saying these words.

I am not saying matter's evil -- Gnostics are. Or maybe not evil as such, but a prison that keeps mankind away from joining Sophia yet again. Also, what is evil and what is good is relative to person and culture; some might say that the world is a bad place, whereas others think it's a glorious place.

**Churchwork** · 07-10-2008, 12:25 PM

Humans are perfectly made in God's image. Thus, we have free-will to have the free-choice to receive God's redemption. We are all born into sin because of the sin of one man.

Never blame God for sin, an outcropping of disobedience. Sin exhibits free-will; if we all chose rightly we very well may just be robots, and that could never glorify God. He can certainly do better than that by giving us not only self-consciousness, but God-consciousness as sovereign free-willed beings He can walk with and partake with in fellowship and communicate by our worship and prayer and His mercy and grace.

To blame God for anything is the beginning of all corruption and self-exaltation in disobedience and hostility to your Creator.

Sophie is the gnostic god, so Sophie is evil, since you say gnostics are evil. It is evil to want to be in prison, reflecting a negative attitude. Satan wants you to join himself as Sophie. God wants you to be in the new city and new earth as a child of God, and He would never leave unattended His creation. He would never allow an evil god to create you for then you would not be created in His image. When God gives you a conscience it is in His image, not the image of the Devil, for that is pointless and sick and twisted. Just check you have no evidence for your deism and gnosticism and that is what matters. Why then do people believe such nonsense? It is because they are expressing their disobedience to God, that is all. The way to express independency from God is by concocted strange ideas that separate you from Him.

There are some common traits that are evil. If you murder someone, that is evil. This is agreed upon by all nations. The world has much evil in it, because the god of this world is Satan, but Jesus will return. You can count on it. By saying Satan is the god of this world, we are not saying he created it, but that he is in control of it, but Jesus will return to fix it and put the Devil into the pit for 1000 years, before sending him off to hell.

"On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives" (Zech. 14.4).

"This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1.11)

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." (Rev. 1.7)

Even those who pierced which includes all who reject Him. He said if you are not for Him, you are against Him. There is no in between. The choice is clear. Are you for Christ or are you antichrist?

Apoche · 07-10-2008, 12:50 PM

Humans are perfectly made in God's image. Thus, we have free-will to have the free-choice to receive God's redemption. We are all born into sin because of the sin of one man.

Bing. You sort of got it. Free will is why humans do not necessarily have to be evil or incompetent, even if created (as the Gnostics think) by an evil or incompetent God. You said: "... for with such a sinful assumption of an evil creator ... and your only legitimate option is to continue in that evil in keeping with your creator." And yet, here you say that free will exists. So why would the only legitimate option be to continue in the evil venue of an evil creator?

Sophie is the gnostic god, so Sophie is evil, since you say gnostics are evil.

I have never said Gnostics are evil. Nor is Sophia evil. The evil god of Gnosticism is the Demiurge, which is the offspring of Sophia.

It is evil to want to be in prison, reflecting a negative attitude. Satan wants you to join himself as Sophie.

Gnostics do not want to be in prison. They want to get out of it.

He said if you are not for Him, you are against Him. There is no in between. The choice is clear.

This attitude is quite scary.

**Churchwork** · 07-10-2008, 06:34 PM

Don't get me wrong. Everyone is a sinner, but we still have free-will to be drawn by God and receive what Jesus did for us on the cross to atone for our sins.

An evil creator creates evil, so its nature produced only knows how to be evil and does not even have the choice, because evil can't create sentient beings. You have to understand that an evil creator can't give free-will to a species of beings, because only that which is uncreated has that power. An evil creator can only make evil robots. Gnostics would be wrong in thinking an evil creator can have its creation not be evil, because the creation is trapped in the evil construct and can't escape it. Whereas God's creation is good and if God shows mercy, mankind can escape the penalty of sin.

God does not create evil offspring, so Sophia is evil for creating evil gods.

The mistaken assumption is that gnostics want out of the evil construct they surmise. In actuality they don't want out of the evil, that is why they are gnostics for believing in the false assumption to reject God's design and the atonement of Christ. It's all about Jesus.

The attitude is quite scary that we are all sinners and even though God entered into His creation to die on the cross for our sins, man still rejects Him. If you are not for Him, then you are in fact against Him. I'm scared for you, for I would not wish my worse enemy to go to hell where you are going.

Apoche · 07-11-2008, 02:34 AM

An evil creator creates evil, so its nature produced only knows how to be evil and does not even have the choice, because evil can't create sentient beings.

You have to understand that an evil creator can't give free-will to a species of beings, because only that which is uncreated has that power. An evil creator can only make evil robots.

These are mere assertions anyway. As a matter of fact, Gnostics do not think that their souls were created by the Demiurge, only that their bodies were.

God does not create evil offspring, so Sophia is evil for creating evil gods.

God can, according to you, create beings which act evil without Him being evil; you said, after all, that we should "never blame God for sin." Doesn't the same go for Sophia? I mean, is it okay to blame it for the evil and incompetence of the Demiurge?

Oh, yes, and that is a non-sequitur, by the way. "God does not create evil offspring" does not imply that "Sophia is evil for creating evil gods."

In actuality they don't want out of the evil, that is why they are gnostics for believing in the false assumption to reject God's design and the atonement of Christ.

I bet most Gnostics would be surprised to learn this.

The attitude is quite scary

It is a scary attitude because it is one that starts wars and authors conflicts.

**Churchwork** · 07-11-2008, 01:50 PM

It doesn't matter whether body, soul or spirit, for a loving God does not give man an evil component. He provides him with a perfect working condition to start in the first Adamic man. Only that which is eternally existing can give self-consciousness and God-consciousness. Only that which has always had free-will can give free-will. All else has not that power, just like man will never be able to figure out how to create the first single celled organism. There are some things you will never figure out, because it is beyond your ability to even understand the how. This takes humility. Realize all you are doing is trying to usurp yourself above your true Creator. It's funny and yet at the same time, pathetic and saddening for you.

God is not the originator of evil. He gives people the choice for they are made in His image to have the choice. Sophia created evil directly. God never does. Sophia is the evil personage, but Sophia never fell from grace but would be created evil. Therein lies your contradiction. Moreover, nobody can create evil beings, for all beings are created good. God creates in His image. It is against God's good nature to create evil.

Most sinners are not really surprised to hear they are sinners, they just don't want to hear as they go out sinning. Like gnostics are preferring to remain in a lie, because of their willingness to remain separated from God and salvation. They don't want to hear about it but continue in that sin.

Jesus never started wars, so what is scary is to accuse Him and the Apostles and the true Church through history of crimes committed by the unsaved.

I think I will give you an infraction for accusing Jesus of starting wars, since you just self-declared it without anything to support your idea. For me it becomes a boring conversation to hear people mindlessly self-declare stuff they can't back up, nor try to.

My advice: don't be a dullard!

Apoche · 07-11-2008, 04:58 PM

Sophia created evil directly.

No, it created the Demiurge just like the Christian God created man. It is not accountable for the actions of its creation.

Moreover, nobody can create evil beings, for all beings are created good.

This statement directly contradicts what you've been saying about Sophia creating evil.

Jesus never started wars, so what is scary is to accuse Him and the Apostles and the true Church through history of crimes committed by the unsaved.

Oh for the love of goodness ... I said that Jesus' black and white attitude is the kind of attitude that starts wars, not that Jesus himself walked around and incited conflict.