Quote Originally Posted by bertie
when one reads on from rev.7-9
one finds in rev7-14-that this multitude is composed of the people that have gone through part if not all of the tribulation.
rev7-14and i said into him,sir thou knowest(who the multitude is)
and he said to me These are they which come out of the great tribulation,and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God,and serve Him day and night in his temple:and he that sitteth on the throne will dwell among them.
rev7- 16 -17tells their fate-16).they shall hunger no more,neither thirst any more;neither shall the sunlight on them,nor any heat.17)For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters:and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
these are the saints from the tribulation.
The tribulation of the past 20 centuries!

there are at this time still followers of jesus alive on earth.later on in rev11 -17 it tells that satan, having been cast down from heaven,goes to make war on the remnant who belive in god, keep His commandments,and have a testimony of Jesus Christ-ie.-more christians on earth,surviving the tribulation,not raptured,and here just prior to the wrath of god being poured out.
Yes.

I cant seem to find that which indicates a partial rapture as those who are in the crowd have all been through some part of the trib and died as a result of their faith.(in the verses quoted.)perhaps there is other coroberating scripture?Also there are saints still on earth when satan is cast down.............
Please note that 7.9-17 narrates the period from the rapture (the first rapture) to eternity (the new heaven and the new earth). What is described in 7.15-17 depicts the same scene as found in 21.3-7.

Note also that 7.9-17 only deals with the rapture generally, not exclusively; and neither does it speak exclusively of the scene of eternal blessing. Consequently, we must not conclude that what is given here is indicative of the rapture of the whole church once and for all; for nothing is said as to how this vast multitude got there, it only states that they are there.

Rev. 7.14 The phrase “the great tribulation” is not the Great Tribulation of three years and half duration. The reasons are as follows.

(1) At the earliest, the Great Tribulation should commence at the sounding of the “woe” trumpets, the first of which is the fifth (8.13, 9.1a). Yet in 7.9 is an intimation of a rapture having taken place before the seventh seal. Some of these people must have arrived at the throne without passing through the time of the “woe” trumpets.

(2) The Great Tribulation cannot begin before Satan is cast down to earth. Satan will be cast down at the sounding of the fifth trumpet (9.1); and before the horrible situation of the 42 months prevails on earth (13.5), the man child is already raptured to the throne (12.5). Though this man child may not include all the people referred to in 7.9, nonetheless we dare say that it embraces a part of that great multitude.

(3) As soon as the seventh bowl is poured, the kingdom arrives. During the kingdom age we do not see the temple in heaven, instead we see the temple on earth as described in Ezekiel. Who will have the time and opportunity to serve God during the Great Tribulation? Yet in 7.15 clearly states that God’s servants serve Him day and night.

(4) There cannot be so many people saved at Great Tribulation. Since the great multitude mentioned in 7.9 is said to have come out of the great tribulation (7.14), this great tribulation must be different from that which comes at the fifth and sixth trumpets.

(5) According to 11.1, there are those who worship in the temple of God in heaven. Aside from the people cited in 7.9, where can there be found any who worship God in heaven? For at that time the Great Tribulation as predicted in the book of Revelation has yet to begin. In the new heaven and new earth, no temple is seen (21.22) because the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are the temple thereof. (God and the Lamb form the center of the new city. Following the mentioning of the temple of God in 3.12 are found the words “he shall go out thence no more”, for the simple reason that God and the Lamb are the temple in the new heaven and new earth.)

(6) The Bible expressly says that there are believers who do not pass through the Great Tribulation (for example, Luke 21.36 and Rev. 3.10).

(7) Suppose these people mentioned in 7.9 did in fact pass through the Great Tribulation of three and a half years; then they must have died at the time when the temple is trodden underfoot by the nations. But according to what is given in 11.2 it is impossible to include the church therein. So how can it be held that the multitude cited in 7.9 comes out of the Great Tribulation of three and a half years?

(8) The Great Tribulation of three years and a half spoken of in Revelation is especially related to the Jews. Both Daniel 12.1 – “And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and that time thy people shall be delivered . . . “ – and Matthew 24.16-18 depict particularly the situation of the Jewish people. God’s primary purpose is to make use of the Great Tribulation to deal with the Jews. “The time of Jacob’s trouble” spoken of in Jeremiah 30.7 manifestly points to the Jews. But in the book of Revelation reference is made to the subject of tribulation several times in connection with the church, such as in 1.9 and 2.9-10,13. According to John 16.33 tribulation seems to be the earthly portion of the church for she must pass through a prolonged duration of sufferings. Accordingly, this tribulation may also be described in the same way as Revelation 7.14 itself literally does in the Greek original, namely: “the tribulation the great”. Nevertheless, the great tribulation cited in Revelation 2.22 is very different from that of 7.14, nor is it the same as that of the three and a half years mentioned elsewhere in Revelation. (The words “through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God” in Acts 14.22 has reference to the common experience those who enter the kingdom of God will share on earth.)