http://www.voiceofevangelism.org/video.cfm Program # 289
Journey to the Underworld Series Pt. 4 "Questions About Heaven and Paradise"
-Direct Download

About 1/3 way through, see Fred Stone's tears about the New City vision which was after about three and a half hours of prayer. I believe this was authentic even though he was in false tongues gibberish babble - false since tongues are unknown languages to the hearer, not to ourselves. We can not speak languages unknown to ourselves. People who have said this has been done always have an unethical means of doing so. To ourselves gibberish babble is not language of the spirit because it is vocalized internally or outwardly not intuitively generated; nor is it language of man, since it is not language with syntax. Fred Stone is looking for the new city, but the gibberish babble blocked any further seeing of it. God rewarded him for his lengthy prayer, but limited what he could see because of the gibberish babble which alters the Word.

You may ask, why would God give him a vision at all if he was in false tongues to begin with? Wouldn't that give Satan ground to justify tongues means gibberish babble? I don't think so. First of all, Fred Stone is unclear about what he was praying to begin with long ago whether it was words or not: he said "I guess I was praying in a normal voice" but then after the vision it was "supernatural tongues" he said, "not the English language," but "other tongues and other languages". God can give a vision even though Satan is working something and tries to jump into the scene. In fact that is when Satan is working his best work is to mix his working in with God's working for a Satanic grace and baptism of the evil spirit. We should accept Fred Stone's vision, but we do not have to accept his false tongues. He need not repent for what God gave him, but he should repent for what God did not give him by refusing it.

Pastor Wallam Hallam is wrong about 2 Cor. 5.8. He says this verse means a person goes straight to heaven when they die. No! To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord does not mean at the moment one dies since timeless unawares could be a vast amount of time but imperceptible.

Notice Hallam said Jesus went to Hell, confusing Hell for Hades. But you let's not forget Rev. 20.14 which says, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire" (KJV). How can hell be cast into hell-fire? That's why the ASV reads "death and hades..." I have heard no explanation about what hell-fire is if it is not hell! We must therefore conclude that the KJV was wrong on this point as is Hallam and the Stone family.

I don't like how they use verses, but I like watching these Perry Stone episodes, because he is a gibberish speaker, and they see things differently than non-gibberish speakers. I believe greater deception will come from the pretrib onlyist gibberish speaking camp in addition to the calvinist historicalist camp. For example, the first group say everyone who is saved is in heaven already, but 1 Thess. 4.15-17 says we will be raised together with those who are still asleep. If they are still asleep then they are not in heaven yet. We do not come before the high priest naked! The latter group believes they were premade for salvation like robots, if you will, and that we are in a millennial peace now even though Rev. 20.3 says the nations would not be deceived.

"But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words (1 Thess. 4.13-18).

Notice this that the whole broadcast by Perry Stone did not mention 1 Thess. or 1 Cor. 15 about those in Hades are still asleep awaiting resurrection at the last trumpet. How do we know it is the last trumpet at the consummation of this age?

"Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor. 15.51-52).

This is at the end of the Tribulation.

"Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now" (1 Cor. 13.12 NLT). "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" (1 Cor. 13.13 KJV).

This verse was used incorrectly by Perry. It is referring to our resurrected newly clothed spiritual body life, not to spirit and soul raised without a spiritual body. Yet, Perry Stone used it in this latter sense, which is too inaccurate for me. Yes, our spirit can be raised to see things like John saw from that great high mountain of Olympus, but it does not mean people are running around and doing all kinds of wonderful things yet, since we have not received newly clothed spiritual bodies yet. My experience for about half hour was as though I had gone to third heaven, though I cannot be sure. I can only say it was the most amazing experience of my life and I wanted it to never end. That's all I could remember saying is "I never want this to end" it was that spectacular. As I think about it I still can't believe it - how could something this amazing happen to me? I have nothing to say. I am just in awe of what God did this to me, and what He is going to do next.

The visions people are having, however pleasant, of seeing their loved ones is mediums today (1 Sam. 28.7-8), because claims are being made of seeing and talking to dead people in after-life experiences and duplication confirmation experiences as though the mind has been set up such things all their lives to be manifested. If people are constantly looking for to speak languages they do not know, they will do so by copying others in prayer settings in their languages, then transposing that language into their own speech, pretentiously.

Elijah was raptured alive, but Moses was not, yet they were both seen with Jesus at transfiguration. Elijah was raptured with his body (not to be seen again for a long time), so it might make sense that he could return, since he never died. He seems to be in stasis. Enoch never died. Both of them will return to die as the two witnesses in the Great Tribulation. But Moses should not have been seen (since he cannot be there in spirit and soul and body since he has not been given a body yet to be seen to be in) since he is still in the good side of Hades - Abraham's bosom - so how could he be seen? Let us apply proper thinking hereto what is reasonable.

The only possible answer is that having a vision of someone does not mean they are actually there, but it is a remembrance of them in vision. The interaction between Lazarus and the rich man and Abraham after they died was not actually conducted, but was an expression of how they would behave if they could speak forth words. They are in timeless unawares.

Don't get me wrong. These visions are real. But we must realize they are visions, not the actual person raised yet, since they have not been raised yet. Even Enoch and Elijah whose physical bodies vanished may not actually be in the 3rd heaven yet, because you can't come before the high priest naked. If they are yet to die, they don't have spiritual bodies yet, so though they are raptured, their return is from a state of timeless unawares above (rather than timeless unawares below). When they do what they do as the two witnesses, it will be as if it was the same day they were raptured many centuries ago.

"Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished" (1 Cor. 15.18). This is timeless unawares for those who have died.

Perry Stone misuses these verses - Gen. 25.8, 35.29, 49.33, Mark 15.37 by thinking "joining his ancestors in death" means to be raptured spirit and soul. Rather, they have gone to timeless unawares awaiting for resurrection in the day of the Lord at the last trumpet in the parousia of Christ. Each time a person gives up the Ghost, they go to hades, they are not raptured alive like Enoch or Elijah.

Conclusions: (1) gibberish babble - altering the Word - goes too far, misreading the Word, but much is to be forgiven since their hearts are in the right place, (2) Satan has found inroads in the Church through gibberish babble in order to create supernatural errors in visions, (3) nobody is in heaven yet, so manifestations thought to be, are projections of future events rather than present happenings, (4) such visions could be affected outside the boundary of time so that is why they are seeing them now, even speaking to them in heaven, which is yet future at resurrection, (5) overassuming first rapture is dangerous and false fruit, (6) pride of calvinism is puffed up and false fruit, (7) historicalism is horrible and false fruit, and (8) be careful at the moment of baptism of the Holy Spirit or other supernatural phenomenon because Satan will try to imprint himself at the moment of this vulnerability and create a thought life that will draw false conclusions from supernatural deceptive visions.

Causes: This is the crux of the deeper debate in Christianity. Satan is imprinting himself in supernatural manifestations if we are lax at the point of vulnerability when opening oneself to God's visions. This would explain the different understanding of these verses.