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Thread: Shawn A. McCraney of Heart of the Matter Experienced a False Conversion in 1997

  1. #11
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    William Lane Craig doesn't believe you are saved, because you are Modalist. Of course Craig is not saved since he thinks he can lose salvation tomorrow.

    William said, "By keep the Persons of the Trinity straight and in order will have practical importance for our devotional Christian lives. Jesus said to pray to the Father through the Son by the Holy Spirit."

    Though we have a spirit, soul and body which may appear at times to be 3 distinct persons in us, of course we only have 1 will. But the Godhead of 3 Persons has 3 wills. Craig said, "when it comes to God these Persons are much more fully transacted in God."

    The Son of God is not the imminent logos in the Father's mind, but the very logos Who always was the 2nd Person in the Godhead. The word become flesh, not the word became Jesus. The word already was Jesus.

    "I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you" (Ps. 2.7).

    "Begotten indicates a definite point in time-the point at which conception takes place. By definition the begetter (Father) always must come before the begotten (Offspring). There must be a time when the begetter exists and the begotten is not yet in existence...", "So the words begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God." Quoting the phrase from Heb.1:5-6 in reference to time, "The Son was begotten on a specific day in time; there was a time when the Son did not exist;" If this is so then there was a time when the Father did not exist either, because to be called a Father means one has a Son. Modalism doesn't make sense.

    Subordination is for the purpose of engaging humanity, but there was no subordination before creation.

    Dynamic monarchianism (1 person) is where God entered Jesus like God can enter all of us so Jesus is called God. Whereas Modalism monarchianism (still 1 person) is God manifests himself in three emanations of Himself (overlapping). Sabellianism is another name for Modalism or Patripassianism and is simultaneous not consecutive/successive. Sequential modalism is God flipping between modes but never in two modes at once (non-overlapping). Trimanifestation is simultaneous Modalism which is really emanations of God otherwise known as Pantheism as the ripples of water producing outwardly from himself.

    The 3 Persons of the Godhead are 1 Substance, simply to mean, one thing: God. The 3 Persons in the Trinity are distinct but NOT separate.

    Modalism is really just masquerading and role playing as Jesus goes up to the Father, changes His clothes and comes back as the Holy Spirit. Funny! At the baptism of Jesus where the Father speaks and the Holy Spirit descends like a dove on Jesus, Jesus has to be a really good ventriloquist.


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    Satan doesn't mind cheap imitations of God with 3 masks, e.g. modalism. Why are all these Trinitarians, including early church fathers say Shawn A. McCraney is a heretic and going to Hell. That's all I am saying as well. Peddle a false god and people will come running into the arms of Shawn McCraney and mega churches too.

    T.D. Jakes, a modalist, is one of the most wealthiest preachers in America.



    Ask a modalist since Jesus was begotten how can Jesus be eternal? They say Jesus was created when conceived by Mary and that the Word is just a thought in God's mind to create Jesus. Therefore, Jesus in Modalism is Arianist. Modalists are really Arians. A former Oneness Pentecostal is now Trinitarian and labels the "Jesus Trick" when Modalists are asked if Jesus is eternal; they say yes, except what they really mean is Jesus is the Father since there is no distinction before time and space to them. This is a trick they pull. All cults accept the Father as eternal, but not all cults accept Jesus was eternal and not the Father. You can't be both created and eternal before time and space.

    "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds" (Heb. 1.2).



    Bottom line: Modalists are really Arians just like JW's. Wikipedia at least affirms there are some of us who recognize Modalists are Arians.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism

    Accusations of Modalism and Arianism

    Oneness believers are often accused of being Monistic or Modalistic.[31] They have also occasionally been accused of Arianism or Semi-Arianism, usually by isolated individuals rather than church organizations.[32] While Oneness theologian Dr. David Bernard indicates that Modalistic Monarchianism and Oneness are essentially the same, and that Sabellius was basically correct, (so long as one does not understand Modalism to be the same as patripassianism),[23] and while Arius also believed that God is a singular Person, Bernard vehemently denies any connection to Arianism or Subordinationism in Oneness teaching.[31]

  3. #13
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    Is. 9.6 the father refers to the founder, author and creator, and the kingly Messiah; the man Christ Jesus is a Father to His beloved people: "Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him" (Ps. 103.13). "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Is. 64.8).

    It occurred to me that if you want to make Jesus the Father in Is. 9.6 then it stands to reason the Father in the NT is the son, but of course, no such verses exist that say that. Would you want a blind faith such as that? Clearly in the NT Jesus is not the Father so the father in Is. 9.6 is not the Father in the NT.


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    God is tripersonal NOT a trimanifestation. The latter is tripantheism emanations and Arianism since we are told by Modalists Jesus was created from the Word (John 1.1) even though Jesus created all things. The "Jesus Trick" says Jesus is the Father so Jesus is eternal, but that's a contradiction to when Modalists say Jesus was created/begotten as the Son.

    [Col 1:16-18 KJV] 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

    If Jesus is before all things then He was not created from the Word, nor did the Word become Jesus, but the Word Jesus became flesh.

    [Heb 1:2-3 KJV] 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    Jesus was the Son before the Incarnation. I guess that's why He is the only begotten Son, or is it because He was resurrected so He is the firstborn? Either way He always existed as the Word of God in John chapter 1.

    For someone to be the Incarnation means pre-existence. So Jesus was not created through Mary.

    Modalists are really Arians (rejecting Jesus is God) in disguise because their Jesus was created, a created emanation like in Pantheism. You can't receive the atonement from anyone but God. Since the Modalism Jesus is not God, Modalists are not forgiven and remain bound for Hell.

    Claiming God is in Jesus so Jesus is God would not be true since we whom are saved are born-again have God in us, yet we are not God.




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