Shawn,

If the Father always existed as the first person and the Son as the 2nd person and the HS as the 3rd person and all 3 are uncreated before time and space, then why don't you believe the One Being of the Trinity? You tried to compare your role as a father, son and husband. While this is true, these are roles you play, whereas the 3 Persons of the Godhead don't have the authority and submission of the Father to the Son. The 3 Persons always existed as co-equal like is said in Phil. 2.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/thewayofthelord.htm

You said your issue is they have 3 distinct wills. Are you teaching modalism? If Jesus does the perfect will of the Father so the Father has His own will and the Spirit has His own will then what's the problem? Jesus is never the Father, and the Father is never the Spirit, and the Spirit is never the Son.

If not then it seems like a charade. You mentioned James White believes in the Trinity. But I believe he is going to Hell because he is a Calvinist. I don't believe he was ever born-again because he admits he never repented and believed in Christ to be regenerated. He instead prefers to assume he was irresistibly selected (irresistibly regenerated) which forced him to repent and believe to be saved which is disingenuous to me. It is not a sincere way to come to the cross to assume you had no choice in the matter. We are depraved but not totally depraved. We have prevenient grace, that is, sufficient grace for all to have the free choice (irresistible grace) and are once-saved-always-saved. The Bible to me never separates regeneration and salvation. They are one and the same: the new birth, born-again, co-death. White will always reject the Jesus who died on the cross for all (unlimited atonement). His god is unwilling and unable to do that so God of the Bible trumps his god. And he believes some people are born for Hell given no opportunity for salvation (preterioned). That seems evil. As Dave Hunt said, What love is that?

If God asked me if you were born again in 1997 I would have to say no, because that is not the Jesus I believe in. I don't believe in a Jesus who doesn't have His own distinct will from the Father's will and the Spirit's will. Otherwise that is modalism or some other complicated term.

I mentioned J. Warner Wallace of Cold-Case Christianity who said most of his family members are Mormons. He became a Christian when he became anti-Mormon, he said. He said that if you don't believe in the Trinity you are going to Hell. I didn't know about the Trinity until after I was born-again, but when I learned about it, it made sense to me and accepted it wholly.

I propose if you came before Jesus at the Great White Throne and He said the Trinity is true you would not accept it. It's not clear you would accept it, because you didn't accept it ever in all your life. I can see how an ex-Mormon would reject the Trinity if he left Mormonism and believed he accepted Christ as his Savior, because Mormonism rejects the Trinity so you have gone to the far extreme the other way from polytheism to modalism. You've carried over something that is not right and doctrinally damaging (see links below). A babe in Christ may not know the Trinity, but would not reject the Trinity as they learn about the Triune God. I moved from accepting "all things sum in Christ" to learning about my God being Triune.

I am a trinity of my spirit, soul and body, but though at times it feels like they have their own distinct will as my spirit lusts after my flesh (sin of the body and self of the soul) and my flesh lusts after my spirit. These are 3 parts to my being that were created. Whereas the 3 Persons of the Godhead are distinct before time and space, but not separate. Likewise my 3 parts are distinct, but not separate. If I am a trinity (Heb. 4.12, 1 Thess. 5.23), but I did not exist before time and space, then God is a Trinity except that I am not 3 Persons, for only God is 3 Persons.

What if what you believe is not the Trinity so that you are actually rejecting God and in rebellion so that when you come before the GWT you won't repent because if you can't understand the Trinity now, you won't understand the Trinity later. There is no sin in Heaven so you couldn't enter Heaven.

The Trinity accounts for love because the persons of the Godhead have someone to love among themselves. So the 3 Persons are not attributes, but His very transcendent being: unity in Trinity and Trinity in unity.

The Trinity Accounts for the Deity of Jesus
This is often over looked, but make no mistake about it: all deviations from historical Trinitarianism have compromised the eternal divine nature of Jesus. It’s that simple. The Early Church Councils corrected the errors of Adoptionism (2nd Century), Docetism (2nd Century), Monarchianism (2nd and 3rd Century), Sabellianism (3rd Century), Arianism (4th Century), and Socinianism (16th and 17th Century). In addition to these historic mischaracterizations of the triune nature of God, there are several current mischaracterizations, including the polytheism of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and the denial of the Trinity present in many Unitarian groups, including the Christadelphians. When the Trinity is denied, Jesus is typically demoted from divinity or subjugated as a lessor being.

J. Warner Wallace on the Trinity:
http://coldcasechristianity.com/?s=Trinity
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2016...ts-a-solution/
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2016...e-first-place/
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2015...-broadcast-24/ (audio)
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2015...tian-doctrine/
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2016...arian-analogy/


I called into the Heart of the Matter show at the 51:09 minute mark.

Episode549 - Striking at the Root part 2


Athanasian Creed of the Trinity -
http://biblocality.com/forums/showth...3313#post13313