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Thread: John 20.31 and 1 John 5.1 Clearly Show Faith Precedes Regeneration

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    Default John 20.31 and 1 John 5.1 Clearly Show Faith Precedes Regeneration

    "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (John 20.31). I don't think it says "having received life, that ye may believe."

    "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has become a child of God. And everyone who loves the Father loves his children, too" (1 John 5.1). I don't think it says "having become a child of God, you believe that Jesus is the Christ."

    That would be weird if there was two lives: a life before repenting and believing and a life after repenting and believing.

    What's the point of searching God out with all your heart and soul if it doesn't matter since those that are regenerated are irresistibly selected?

    The process of searching God out with all our hearts and souls to find Him meets prevenient grace, but it doesn't fit with Calvinism because in the latter view nobody comes to God or searches Him out. So what the Bible describes as that seeking contradicts the Calvinism position.

    1 John 5 is really about giving assurance of salvation.

    "The LORD makes firm the steps of the one who delights in Him" (Ps. 37.23) with "repentance that leads to salvation" (2 Cor. 7.10). Doe it say salvation leads to repentance? Does it say one who delights in Him was made firm the steps of?

    Christian don't believe in finite determinism.

    "God gave these Gentiles the same gift he gave us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ.... We can see that God has also given the Gentiles the privilege of repenting of their sins and receiving eternal life" (Acts 11.17,18).

    "I have had one message for Jews and Greeks alike—the necessity of repenting from sin and turning to God, and of having faith in our Lord Jesus" (Acts 2.21).



    I am an OSAS Arminian. Do you recognize Arminius as saying never once did he ever teach a person can lose salvation?

    I like lots of the arguments of Leighton Flowers but I don't like it when he says "preserverance" a conflation of perseverance and preservation.

    Persevering to me is works yet Calvinists use this term to mean they are irresistibly made to work to remain saved. But salvation is still not by works so they don't make sense when they say that.

    Whereas OSAS Arminians believe in preservation of the saints. In other words, I gave my life to the God who keeps like John 10.28 for I don't have the power to keep myself saved so that would not be the god I gave my life to (e.g. Remonstrants, Wesleyan, RCC).

    So Leighton believes in perseverance partly because he comes from the calvinist background, but I reject it. That is not to say we don't grow in the faith and run the good race, but in terms of OSAS works can never do it whether it is irresistibly imposed or not.

    Also he says he believes in partial Total depravity. That is self-refuting.

    I believe what is happening is if a person believes a Calvinists is a brother in Christ then they make these conciliatory mistakes.

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    "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Matt. 3.11).

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