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Thread: 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshiro
    There is solid evidence to Darwin's Theory(Yes, I know, theories are not proven)which clearly does not agree with "with word". Even so, your proof is no more proven than Darwin's theory, which actually relies on more than intuition and twisted logic, as your proof does.
    It agrees with Gen. 2.7 in one sense regarding the "dust," as this is the meaning of the body from dust. Darwin's theory only speaks about physical causes and effects since the amoeba; it does not address what occurred before the amoeba. Nor does it deal with the distinction of man's spirit that is unique from all of creation. Darwin's theory is limited in its scope and there it will remain. This is why the Proof goes beyond evolution, and deals with the cause and effects of evolving, even before the amoeba. Your logic is twisted and your spirit's intuition is corrupted. Since you find no fault with the 4 Step Proof, why blame it? That is illogical and corrupted like that great false accuser. Self-declarations (the "banal" and "recondite") are of no interest here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlequin
    Step 1.
    Since none have the ability to overturn the 4 Step Proof, sometimes I will go out and find someone's argument to show its flaw. This is one such case at the Randi Corporation, in which I am banned for no valid reason; banning me for truth given clearly is not a valid reason, for it is never a valid reason to put your head in the sand rand.

    You are welcome to post your effort personally on the forum where it needs to be refuted at biblocality.com/forums for those that want to make the effort. Other forums do not qualify. Also, because of the censoring at Randi (their admitting I don't even post that much, so why ban? It is illogical). Please post my reply in this post on Randi if you like since I am not allowed to. Notice too they move the 4 Step Proof from the million dollar section so as not to have to confront the matter. This is all expected behavior for people who don’t want to accept the truth when it is staring right in front of them like a great neon sign. Let's begin.

    If evolution has had infinite time to operate then we should by now be perfect. We are not perfect, therefore the Universe has not been around forever. (confused idea of evolution, but still vaguely sound reasoning)
    If you admit you have confused the idea of evolution, then why do it? This is belligerence, warned not to do. And you admit you are being vague, then stop it. Don't do it. Since we have not had an eternity to be perfected you know the universe is not from an eternity of the past in cause and effects. Given the interpolation of the progression of our conscience in the past 6000 years, we know it will not take another 6000 years to reach sinless as Step 1 already said. This is scientifically proven by pure math, in conjuction with observing our conscience. So Step 1 holds true, not vaguely, but very precisely.

    Step 2. Everything has a single cause. (hmmm, no real justification here, but apparently we're calling that cause "God".)
    It does not say everything has a single cause, but that eveything has a cause. I find it funny that people like to put their own thought into what is being said to try to disprove something. This is lame. Since nothing in nature happens all by itself, we know that it was caused. Since everything has a cause, therefore, the cause must be that which is uncaused. The big bang or other first event was caused by that which is uncaused so that when we compare all claimed uncaused causes only God wins out because of Christ's sinless sacrifice of which only God could be sinless. Sounds reasonable. Step 2 holds true and goes unchallenged.

    Step 3. God is the only thing that was not "created" by something else. (apparently by definition).
    You misread Step 3. Step 3 is not saying God was the only thing NOT created by something else, but rather, that the Proof is about God who was uncreated (not created), so that if you are going to try to disprove something, it is the attempt to disprove God of the Bible who is uncreated, not something else. How illogical it would be to try to disprove something other than what the Proof is about. This has all been explained in extensive detail so the fact that you would misread it, indicates your condition in a state of obstinacy and belligerency from which only God can extricate you. Still this step holds true, of course.

    Step 4. Uhm, apparently there's only one God? (justified because, uh, we're not perfect, which we would have been had there been an infinite chain of gods - What the heck does that mean?)
    Step 1 and Step 2 show God, yes. Step 4 already explains itself. Step 1 deals with natural cause and effect, whereas Step 4 deals with supernatural or other etheral cause and effects, rendering the same conclusion as Step 1, since we still sin, thus we have not had an eternity of the past to reach sinlessness. This Step holds as solidly as the day it was founded.

    Wow. Staggering. Where's that million bucks?
    Is it really true that this is the best proof and it "has never been challenged at all since the dawn of man"?
    Yes, where is the million bucks? God is perfectly proven yet the award has not been given. This bespeaks of the unethicalness and poor conscience of Randi. This is really the best Proof of God of the Bible; it is in fact an extension of what God already said: look at the mountains and the stars and ask yourself, did you do that? Amen. Still to this day the 4 Step Perfect Proof has never been challenged since the dawn of man. Praise the Lord! This is the Proof of the Power of God's Word which the 4 Step Proof agrees.

    Let me be the first to challenge it since the dawn (at least today's dawn): If God is perfect, shouldn't his creation be perfect? You have said that we are flawed and sinful, shouldn't that reflect badly on our creator? I'd say God is not perfect, because apparently he/she/it is incapable of creating anything better than us. Seems a rather sad excuse for a perfect being if it can't do better.
    His creation is perfect. The fact that we are made in God's image perfectly does not mean we are robots or automatons that can't fall, otherwise then that would not be a perfect creation of having a free will like God's to have the right to fall; though God does not because He is God. It would reflect badly on God if He was merely a robot manufacturer, lol. God can't create anything better than us because we are the best thing He could create in creation - we are made in His image out of His glory whom He wants to walk with those who receive His uncreated life. What glory to God that we are His best creation! And because we are made in His image He righteously according to His holiness does not treat us as instrumental value, but as intrinsic value. Ergo, He will not annihilate our souls, but for those who refuse salvation will go to eternal separation in hell, while the saved with be with God in the new city and the new earth. Praise the Lord!

    In layman's terms there is lots of bad people out there, like Satan (not a person), who are self-exalting themselves separating themselves apart from God's will.

    I don't know why I bother, except for mild curiosity about where you will go next in your rant. It's a bit like watching a drunk on the dance floor. You almost can't help cheering and clapping just to encourage the poor fool to do another ridiculous spin. Yay! Wave your hands again! Now jump up and do the splits...
    You bother because you have a spirit of God-consciousness that intrinsically is made in God's image has a right to receive salvation. But the choice is still afforded to you, which God awaits. You do seem like a drunk dancing around God. I was like you too unsaved before I was born again so I know what you are going through. Your ridiculous spin has been shown flawed to the bone, but I do not clap for your independency and reviling against the very reason you are here. Stop projecting yourself, jumping around, for it makes you hellbound. Do you not know you are a bad person? And if you leave God no choice but to cast you into hell forever, righteously that is exactly what God will do, to keep you eternally separated from His own that He wants to be with. Your being made in His image has the full capacity to come to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior. No one is forcing you to reject the truth.

    My prayers go out to you. Listen to the music in the chat room to soften your outerman, then read the Proof again, and read my words here, that continue to show you are in error. It is so easy to see, a child can see it.

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    Conclusion: every argument against the Proof I have seen failed, and do you know how they fail? They require misreading something about the Proof such as what ChristineR writes, who is a critical thinker, but critically erroneous in thinking. You can waste your time reading ChristineR, but in so doing what happens? You don't get to see how she misreads the Proof if you are not discerning. From time to time, I will allow some people to post their efforts here, if their thoughts are not so dull, so you can see how it is true, the cause of error is their misreading something, thus rendering their effort unsuccessful.

  4. #14
    spiritplumber Guest

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    Are you claiming that your proof is inerrant? I thought that Christians believed that the Bible, and only the Bible, is inerrant.

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    Just because the Bible is inerrant, does not mean other things can not be inerrant, that is, without mistakes. For example 2+2 =4. This is a flawless calculation. How silly it would be if Christians believed everything had a mistake. Do you see how you misread Christians? In your heart you sin bearing false witness, overassuming which is illogical and without the love of the Lord. After hundreds of tries, no one even came close to finding fault against the Proof of God of the Bible. The Holy Spirit gave me this Proof, and it remains solid because it was founded on the Spirit of truth.

    The essential 4 Steps are perfect. Therefore, for you to still reject Christ after understanding the Proof of God, is punishable with eternal separation from God, since this is in fact what you want. In fact, you never even needed to hear the Proof, for you are made in God's image already without excuse. However, the Proof is powerfully convincing since it is perfectly unchallenged, and thus quite helpful to unregenerates. In the same way, we give the Gospel to lead people to Christ.

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    Ultimately, where do people fail in trying to disprove the Proof, that is, where do they clam up which if they continued with the reasoning of Step 1, they would give their lives to Christ? In other words, what do they fail to look at, where do they stop short that make them dullards?

    Where people stop short is taking a look at the myriad of examples of the exponential increase in progression of our conscience so that we know that it will not take another 6000 years to reach sinlessness. It is very painful for an unsaved man to look at their own conscience and reason out that indeed, it will not take the time from Adam to now again to reach sinlessness in the saved, while the unsaved are cast into perdition, an eternal separation from God, though not annihilated

    So, instead what the unregenerate does is create a plethora of horrible reasonings that are intellectually dishonest, that in any class they would get an F on. Apparently the unsaved don't mind being absurdly unreasonable. They don't get embarrassed by being belligerent and obstinate, because their conscience is so utterly darkened and deadened to God they feel nothing.

    There is no fear of the Lord because they believe the worse thing that could happen to them is to cease to exist, so no big deal! What they don't realize is they are in fact made in the image of God which can never be annihilated. They can never cease to exist. Therefore, they must be resurrected to GWT and cast into hell forever. God does not treat us as instrumental value, but instrinsic value because He wants to walk with us who love Him. We were created for Him. For the unsaved, death is never a way out. When the unsaved reach the Great White Throne, they will be amazed at how dumb and selfish they were to refuse God's loving and saving grace through the atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross for forgiveness of sins to bring souls into the new creation.

  7. #17
    pajken Guest

    Default The search for truth

    Let us assume that I accept your arguments that there exists an entity that transcends the system of cause and effect. I, like you, define this as God. My God created everything but does not provide detailed answers for every aspect of existence. Neither does he give me any specifics about his qualities or the way he created everything. To figure this out is left as a task for me. He wants me to do this by focusing on the important things like the fact that I am here and what this means. He is utterly uninterested in me finding out unverifyable details about who was married to whom 2000 years ago and things like that. My God places no responsibility on me to impose my findings on others. However, my God makes it very clear that I have a great responsibility in respecting my peers and their understanding. He also instructs me to call a spade a spade.

    In leaving out the dogmata, he has effectively taken away the basis of using him as a reference when spreading ignorence and hatred, and in opressing others. This means that what he lacks in described features and history, he makes up in integrity - No one has ever started a war or justified atrocities in his name (in addition of being omnipotent, he is also quite clever!). Looking at the track-record of organised christianity, we can clearly see that we are not talking about the same deity.

    In order for someone to claim that they can present a proof, what they present must not be depending of who interprets it or who is the arbitror. This is the very definition of what truth is; it is not negotiable or relative. If I say that the proof presented applies equally to my definition of what God is as it does to a traditional, christian definition, your answer cannot be: "No, and it is like that just because I say so (or God says so)". If you do that, what you are defending is a "beleif system" and not a "proven reality". This is perfectly fine - you are entitled to do so but please let us call a spade a spade...

  8. #18
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    pajken,

    Why assume anything? It is proven in the Proof. And this Proof is the basis for the Word of God. God doesn't even need to be so merciful as to give this Proof because He simply wants men to believe His Word. He does not use spectacular ways to prove Himself. Jesus said, "But Abraham saith, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them" (Luke 16.29). The rich man perished because he had not heard the word of Moses and the Prophets, whereas Lazarus was saved because he did hear Moses and the Prophets.

    Jesus said, "Beginning from Moses and all the prophets interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" (24.27). Then he said to them, "These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled." Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead," (24.44-46).

    God has already given us the Bible. Even though people sin so terribly, they will not be instantly stricken to death by lightening. God has hidden himself to such a degree that men begin to imagine there is no God. And he said unto him, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (16.31).

    Now you know why perdition is needed.

    The Bible is a a book of spirit for our spirit. It is to God's good pleasure we discover truths in agreement with the Word. The qualities God unfolds are His righteousness (His way of doing things) and His holiness (His nature). This is you can trust. He wants you to focus on His Son, because if you look away from His Son, you are also looking away from the Father. The only way to the Father is through the Son. By focusing on His Word, He will show you why you are here. I already know why we are here, and for me personally, I know my task set before me.

    Why do you have an issue to even mention whom is married to whom 2000 years ago? God does not coerce anyone, but this does not mean to not speak the truth of the Word in sharing the Gospel. You can give the Gospel to people without being imposing. If you do not believe Jesus is God, your god then is Satan, for Jesus died on the cross for you and said He is God. He did not lie. If you don't believe Him, then you would be calling Him a liar? What say you?

    Jesus mentions 4 things why bad things happen to good people. This is God's integrity, His perfect way of doing things. The question is, Do you agree with Him? Do you agree that all will be recompensed?

    Indeed, we are not talking about the same diety, because you accuse Jesus Christ who created you. This means you are going to hell. Do not doubt this for the Holy Spirit has already condemned you (John 3.18) because you do not believe in the only begotten Son of God. This is your choice you are allowed to have, in being made in God's image.

    Your issues with Christendom is already dealt with in Matthew 13 in which God describes the sins of Christendom (the outward appearances of the kingdom of heaven today) by the unsaved tares who try to look like the saved wheat, which Jesus said, He will put his sickle to the tares. The tares are in the kingdom of heaven, but unsaved. You are outside the kingdom of heaven and unsaved.

    "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn" (Matt. 13.30).

    The reapers are the angels, and so is the sickle. Otherwise, people may use this passage to justify the religious inquisitions of the Roman Catholic Church. The following parable is that of the mustard seed which represents how fat Christendom has become quite unlike the nature of this small seed, and in Rev. 17 the RCC is considered the woman who sits on the beast, that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (14.8). So you see, Jesus is against the tares, that which you argue against as well, but you still reject Jesus Christ, which means you are still unsaved. You may even accuse Jesus of being dogmatic. You may even use a lame excuse to reject Christ by blaming the tares, even though they are unsaved also, just like you.

    The most deceiving words I have ever heard people speak are those when a person says, they don't believe in religion. Jesus does not believe in religion (occult and false religion) either as we see (Luke 13.1-3). But we all need religion, that is worship. We all worship, but what do you worship? You worship self for you say you have a god, but that god is not Jesus. You can remain coy about your unascertained god, but that is an unrighteous trait of your god, for being coy and it reflects badly on you. Jesus was murdered and you call him a liar, saying he lied. This speaks volumes about your god.

    Your god is a god of self. It will proclaim itself and exalt itself, even to the point of rising yourself above Jesus Christ who died on the cross for your sins, selflessly. Jesus said if you are not for Him, you are against Him. He has the power to cast you into hell, and He will do exactly that if He can not wash away your sins before Father by the precious blood if you refuse His sacrifice for you.

    What your god lacked previously, he still lacks now by the way you treat the love that was given to you in Christ, like the good samaritan that was the good neighbor (Luke 10.37).

    Those who verify the Proof for God of the Bible are brothers and sisters in Christ who have a renewed mind. The very definition of truth is not a panel of unsaved men for they reject the truth of the love given to them as though they murdered Jesus in their hearts. A panel is not truth, for politicians are elected falsely, for example and are often not the best person for the job.

    Therefore, how are you to know if this Proof is true or not? Read it. Discover that you can find no fault with it. That's the Proof. It is very personal experience where you can not find fault, because it is true. The truth is discerned not by a particular person or panel per se, but any person who accepts the truth, and that determination ultimately falls back upon God, because He created all the laws in the natural realm and the supernatural realm, and reveals what we can or cannot know.

    The reason your god does not fit the profile in the Proof is because your god did not die on the cross for your sins, selflessly. You must see that your god is too selfish to do this. Therefore, my God will remain, but yours will be destroyed as well as its followers. Your god is limited to a select few or only you alone. God of the Bible was shared by 40 writers, it is the most popular book on the planet today, and about 1 in every 3 people at least call themselves Christian.

    Let's call a spade a spade as you wish: you are unsaved because you call Jesus a liar, the only sinless man that ever lived and died on the cross for your sins to give you eternal life. Behind your god is the selfish center placing you at the center of the universe in which you are under Satan. Just as Satan is going to hell, so are you. You said, lets us call a spade a spade. This is spiritual reality.

  9. #19
    pajken Guest

    Default Continued search for truth.

    Troy,

    I mentioned the issue of "who was married to whom" as one example of a detail specified in the bible which I fail to understand the significance of. Just an attempt to try to explain my position.

    When did I ever accuse Jesus Christ of lying? I have no opinion of anything what this person might have done or said. I think that you have a strong opinion on the matter and I think you have the right to that. For all I know, you could be 100% correct. What I do not understand is why I can respect your position and you seem to have difficulties accepting mine.

    How can you say that I will end up in hell? You know almost nothing about me and still you claim to be able to say where I am headed after I die (And I certainly have no association with someone you call Satan. I do not have any knowledge of such a person/entity. What a perfectly random thing to say!). I find it surprising that someone who is speaking on behalf of a good and merciful God would make comments like that. If you try, can you understand that statements like these are much too personal and quite offensive? If you are trying to intimidate me into aligning my understanding to yours, I must say that this strikes me as being quite medieval. On the other hand, it could serve as a good clue to one of the reasons why agression and violence seem to follow organised religion like a dark shadow.

    Troy, citing the bible and repeating that the proof is true does not, in itself, make it more so. It only shows that you are a great believer in your God and in repetition.

    Are you saying that the proof only works when it is arbitred by " are brothers and sisters in Christ who have a renewed mind"? In that case, we are done - if the proof is not absolute in the meaning that is true regardless of who is looking at it, it is not a proof but a statement of belief. If the proof works in a generic way: "Perfect Proof of God of <insert you holy book of choice>", it could be applied on any other definition of God. And in doing so, you must allow the same rule as to who must judge if it holds or not as you have applied yourself. Since most definitions of God (including Christianity) are mutually exclusive, it logically follows that the proof either is false (in its entirety) or it cannot be applied on the God as defined in the Bible.

    Let me be clear: A statement of belief is also something important and valuable but it should not be confused with a proof. And, for all that I actually know, you could be perfectly correct in your definition of God. You simply have not proven it to be so.

    On your website, you have encouraged me to try to disprove your proof. This is what I have done. Anyone who is truly "intellectually honest" will agree to this.

  10. #20
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    Red face

    pakken,

    I am not sure what you are referring to specifically since you don't say. But I can say that God promised a physical line of souls all the way down from Adam (first God-conscious man) to Christ (firstfruits) to point to Christ on the eternal cross, by seeing whom beget whom. Since the finished work of Christ, this pattern has changed by splitting the veil rent. I realize this truth does not help your position.

    You have not spoken for Jesus being God, which is to say, you are against Him, thus calling Him a liar. You don't have to say "He is lying" to say he is lying. Having "no opinion" is calling Jesus a liar, since if you are not for Christ, you are against Him, which is calling Him a liar. Remember, He said, if you are not for Him, you are against Him. By holding no opinion, you are against Him, thus calling Him a liar.

    Jesus said these words, not I. You are not really accusing me, but you are accusing Jesus already without even seeing the verse where He said this. Why overassume? This is not humility. God's Word is not an opinion, but a fact. An opinion can be wrong. A fact cannot. How can you ask me to respect your opinion, when you call Jesus a liar? He gave His life for you, and you call Him a liar. You should never ask someone why they don't respect liars, for it is obvious the reason: sinning bearing false witness is a sin.

    You asked how I know you are going to Hell? Again, Jesus already said why. He said in John 3.18 that you are condemned already to go to hell. You have no reason to doubt His statement. You are not really asking me this question, but your question is put to God why is He going to send you to hell? He gave the answer. Thinking you at the center of the universe is not the guiding principle to salvation. Your salvation is dependent on receive the blood to wash away your sins so that you can be sanctified. You have in no uncertain terms said that you reject the blood of God's forgiveness. God needs to administer this blood because all men are born into sin. All men deserve to be struck by a lightening bolt this second and the entire human race through into hell as this is the just penalty for sin. The only way to remove that sin in God's eyes, is if the person accepts His only Begotten Son, because only His Son was sinless.

    You certainly have a deep relationship with Satan, for you are a fallen man, and the evil spirit entered your spirit when you were born into sin. The Holy Spirit can not enter your spirit to remove the evil spirit unless you are born-again and receive new birth to enter into the new creation.

    The knowledge of this relationship you have with Satan need not be a conscious day to day, How are you doing Satan? Well fine, you say. How are you? he asks back. Remember, your spirit is dead to God and alive to Satan. You don't even know you have a spirit to know that the evil spirit is there because your soul has smothered your spirit, so of course you don't think you have a relationship with Satan, but it is easy to see even over the internet by your words your relationship with the Devil is profound. It is not difficult at all to see. I understand your flesh says it is a random observation because that is just another one of those lame excuses and sins bearing false witness, but as you can see, belligerently saying it is random is not justifiable, nor have you made your case.

    A righteous God who is merciful has said this truth to us all, and in so saying, He also says how to be saved from it. Why do you reject the love given to you? It is because you want to go to hell. You like your sin nature, and you like being a bad person for as long as you have in your flesh. This is observed in your self-exaltation and self-centered opinions that are false. What you shut your mind down to is the fact that God's law requires you be resurrected to GWT, and then cast into the lake of fire without your soul ever being annihilated, because you are not instrumental value to God, but intrinsic value. There, you will maintain conscious awareness of your eternal separation from God. You have a foretaste of this now it is a foretaste of hellfire.

    Sinners certainly find such statements personal and offensive as I once did too before I was saved. This has never been in doubt. Nevertheless, such offense and personal truth does not change the fact of the matter that you desperately need to accept these truths by repentance which fulfills the condition for God's entry into your life. Sinners don't want to accept they are sinners, so shall they receive hell. It is too personal and offensive for them to accept the truth and would prefer to live a lie in their seared conscience for the time they have left in their flesh. They may even engender the thought that they won't be resurrected for hell, but they will.

    It is understandable that your flesh and the evil spirit in your spirit will find you the excuses you need to keep separated from God forever, such as these mischaracterizing words that you accuse the brethren with: "intimidate" and "medieval," but it is not the case at all, for sin leads to death and the second death (hell). This fact is true in all centuries. The propitiation of your sins has been given, which you reject, and thus, you are really rejecting the source of how and from whom you came to be in existence in the first place. It is so easy to see, but not so easy for a blind man. If a parent is loving, then the child disowns the parent, what do you think of that? That child may have to be sent to some school for deliquents. How much more true of man made in God's image. The main difference is there are no more chances after you leave the body of flesh and blood, to enter into the lake of fire.

    You're asking about organized religion, and why there has been acts of violence. The answer is simple: for the same reason such acts of violence exist in non-religions: the flesh. Hilter killed 6 million Jews. Stalin killed 20 million Russians. What was their non-religion? Humanism and natural selection. Regions fight to preserve their beliefs. You pride yourself on being neither of these groups because you do not kill people in war, yet. But realize, this is your point of pride in your "good self", which you allow the evil spirit to instill in you to keep you separated from receiving God's atonement. Jesus never killed anyone, so it would make sense those in Christ would not either. You agree with Christ against the religious tares (Rev. 17, 14.8) and occult (Luke 13.1-3), yet you call Jesus a liar, because you are living in your good self, but the good self can never save you. Only God can save you from your sin soaked spirit, soul and body. So much sin, is it really so surprising that what must happen to you?

    Think of your reasoning as an idol which you place above your creator. You say you have a god, but this god calls Jesus a liar an so do you, yet you have no reason not to be for Christ, not even a possible consideration. The Gospel has been preached to all the world, so you are without excuse to say pretentiously, you do not know what He said. To stand back while the Word has been available to you all your life, to say you don't know what He said is just your flesh reviling Jesus by never reading what He said. You love the world so much, and who is the god of this world in the dispensation of grace? Satan. The Bible has been in your grasp all your life. God will not forgive you if you do not repent to the cross. That I can personally and offensively guarantee you because God's Word does not lie.

    pajken, you wrote, "Troy, citing the bible and repeating that the proof is true does not, in itself, make it more so." Not more so, but just as true as it was when it was first said! What this really shows, is the truth is not unreasonable, but it is unloved. This is why there is the Proof, and you find no fault, yet still reject the truth. Now you know why Hell exists, because it is for those who self-declare themselves in separation from God to be independent of Him forever. As you wish. That is your choice. You have noone to blame but yourself.

    Only those who are saved can accept the Proof, because only the saved have entered into the new creation to believe something so reasonable. Even though the logic is perfect, and you have nothing to say against it, you still do not accept it because of the belligerent evil spirit in your spirit that does not need a reason to reject something.

    If someone only knows how to do addition (you, because you are not saved and going to hell), you can never know how to do math unless God gives you the grace to learn how to do math (God's children). In that case, since you reject this truth (math), and are held back in school, and you declare "we are done" as per your statement according to the truth of what has been said here. I shalln't cast what is holy unto dogs further. So at your unwitting request, I will remove your account and pray for you to one day come to the cross to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

    The Proof is true no matter who looks at, irrespective of who looks at, but only Christians can understand it to the point of accepting it because only Christians have a regenerated spirit with God's life. You do not have God's uncreated life, because your spirit is dead to God, so no matter how pure and true something is, you will still reject it (it being the the truth to lead you to Christ) because you are a bad person who is going to hell. The only way for this not to occur is if you repent to the cross, and this right you have exists because you were made in God's image to be able to receive God's saving grace, which you reject. Could there be anything more insane?

    I have told you the truth.

    The Proof does not work in anyway but to lead to Christ. No other qualifies, than does Christ, which the Proof already shows. So to keep talking about it, while not seeing that it is so by being selfless to read it, is merely vanity and petty talk on your part. Another valid reason for your removal! Therefore, those who would judge it who are unsaved, would immediately be disqualified from discerning the Proof. They can humbly see that it is true once they are saved, and it can help convince one to Christ, but not until one is saved can they truly appreciate the Proof or the Bible to have a relationship with the Word. That appreciation and acceptance only comes from being saved. God only gives you the means to the cross by free-choice. What unfolds afterward can not be comprehened by the unsaved because they are unsaved. This is perfect cause and effect. The old creation can not perceive the happenings in the new creation, just as Christians, though we have a foretaste of heaven (and the new city), we can not fully comprehend it all because we still have not been given a newly clothed spiritual body from which to be resurrected with to the the throne (Rev. 7.9) or to the air (1 Thess. 4.15-17). Even when we are first resurrected we will not have a full appreciation of the new city (Rev. 21) until after the millennial kingdom is completed (Rev. 20.2-7), which has yet to begin.

    There is only one definition of God and that is in Christianity, nowhere else. There are definitions of others what they perceive God to be, but they are wrong if they reject Christ as we have seen. Each of their beliefs can be shown to be false or limiting. Your god is both false with its errors as well as limiting to your opinions mostly: a self-created god. Not most, but all different views of God are mutually exclusive. Let me explain. You can't say your god does not agree with Christ while saying they are not mutually exclusive. That is a contradiction and nonsense. Therefore, since all definitions perceived to be God are mutually exclusive, it stands to reason as I have shared with you, that it logically follows that the Proof would be true in its entirety because not only no non-Christian but neither do my brothers and sisters in Christ find fault with it, and thus it continues to remain the foundation of the Word of God which does not come from me, but was originated by God of the Bible. It is also found in the Bible too, since Jesus is the Word and verses provide us the same finding.

    Let me be clear: the Proof is not a statement of belief but it is a Proof of God of the Bible. Self-declarations are irrelevant when you say the proof has not been shown, for it has: nothing in your words speak to the contrary. You just can't see it because you are going to hell, and that is what you want, so no amount of truth can convince you if it is your desire to go to hell. This relegates your opinion the cause of your going to hell and giving no consideration to the fact that you can find no fault with the proof. Without a regenerated spirit, you will have these contradictory thoughts (easily exposed) that can never be resolved, because they will alway be wrong. Some say this is being a dullard! I say the same. People don't mind such contradictions as the reasons for their rejecting God.

    You said you disproved the Proof, but you have not done so, as given by my counter to your words in this response which show your errors in what you had deemed as being a disproof. Anyone who is being intellectually honest with themselves would agree with this. This therefore, shows, you have been intellectually dishonest with yourself as are all those who are unsaved; that is why they are going to hell, because not a one of those who are going to hell want to accept they are rejecting God for the real reason: they are bad people.

    Wow!

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